Reverse Justice ~ Goku Black vs Reverse Flash

[Greenshifter]

@Nitro I was just pointing out the parallel between them, anyways I will ask on the Q&A board whether phasing should automatically be assumed to work against telekinesis or not.

@Oliver isn't it one RF who resurrects over time, I also don't think another RF will appear before Goku will win via incap or BFR.

@Soul If what Oliver suggested is combat applicable then he can just catch Black off-guard or use his extraordinary genius intellect to come up with a strategy to beat him.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

i think bfr doesn't work because speedsters can move between space-time the all multiverse

 

[Greenshifter]

No I meant that while there might be another Reverse Flash throughout the multiverse who will take this RF's place, that might not happen within the week and as such RF would lose via being BFR'ed.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

oh ok

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Soooo, I guess I'm a bit confused.

What do both characters start with, IC?

 

[Greenshifter]

Here is the answer I got from the Q&A: TK is controling matter with one's mind, so if a character is physically immaterial would be unaffected. Similar case with gravity, is a physical power, so physically immaterial beings and objects are immune. However, simply being intangible do not grant resistance/immunity to these powers.

Anyways

here is a scan of Abra Kadabra being completely immaterial to the point that he thinks he is dead while actually his teleportation

device just jammed. Here is a scan of Wally breaking free of the Justice League's teleportation device, scales to RF via better phasing. Now that covers RF being unaffected by TK while already phasing.

Here is Barry being held by a giant atom and thus incapable of moving and here

is Barry getting free by ejecting his body's protons implying a very high degree of body control for speedsters even if they are pinned down, now RF may be no Barry Allen but Barry's feat is overkill and just shows that speedsters can still phase if they are completely restrained.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Cool

 

[Greenshifter]

In other words, RF phases Goku Black's brain out.

 

[Nitro90]

Know what now that I think about why can't Goku Black just destroy the ground so flash can't run or phase

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Barry and Wally have run in space and in addition to that the RF itself has been moved by the current of time and unless that has a floor (which is shown to be not because the cosmic treadmill is needed as a support) also black does not do that in character that would be very speculative

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Can matches where speed is unequal even be added if it's a speedblitz, or do we consider that a stomp, too?

 

[Nitro90]

Barry and Wally have run in space and in addition to that the RF itself has been moved by the current of time and unless that has a floor (which is shown to be not because the cosmic treadmill is needed as a support) also black does not do that in character that would be very speculative

He was bombing ki blast on the city to find trunks. Why wouldn't he do this once he see that RF can't be hit and that flash can't fly . RF has to focus to actually use he's intangibility if he get thrown off he's done

 

[Nitro90]

Can matches where speed is unequal even be added if it's a speedblitz, or do we consider that a stomp, too?

If speed is unequal it's a stomp

 

[Greenshifter]

@Nitro sure he can but RF can go forward in time to avoid the AoE spam and then catch Black offguard. So Black definitely has wincons I just feel that RF phases Black's brain out more than not. Also speedsters can phase in mid-air and can use the air to propel themselves so destroying the battlefield is only delaying RF not stopping him.

 

[Nitro90]

Are you saying that now reverse flash can use a pseudo type of flight and phase through Black?

 

[Greenshifter]

Yes, granted they mostly use the spin your arms around really fast to slow their descend or cover more horizontal distance while in the air (they can still run in space tho). Also I'm not entirely sure if I can use that Barry feat I mentioned earlier because while the comic in question produced in a Post-Crisis era, it could be a Pre-Crisis feat.

 

[Nitro90]

Yes, granted they mostly use the spin your arms around really fast to slow their descend or cover more horizontal distance while in the air (they can still run in space tho). Also I'm not entirely sure if I can use that Barry feat I mentioned earlier because while the comic in question produced in a Post-Crisis era, it could be a Pre-Crisis feat.

Alright when has RF fly and phase a character.Scaling the phasing sure. But if he himself has never than i'm not seeing that as a high possibly especially when the enemy has better flight,range,teleportation and skill.

I might start leaning towards incon

 

[Greenshifter]

Phasing through people yeah he has feats of that. pseudo-flight is just physics, it's like DB characters shooting a ki blast under them to propel themselves upwards.

 

[Greenshifter]

Pseudo-flight and still working on phase-killing people.

 

[Nitro90]

Phasing through people yeah he has feats of that. pseudo-flight is just physics, it's like DB characters shooting a ki blast under them to propel themselves upwards.

I'm asking when has he did both at the same time.Especially against someone like black with better flight,range,skill,teleport etc

 

[Greenshifter]

Rebirth (dude in question is dead), I think it scales since RF is unaffected by Flashpoint. Also for defense. Finally Post-Crisis and this.

 

[Greenshifter]

Oh, you might have a point, is probably just multitasking though. he can quickly switch between propelling and phasing tho (and keep the momentum he already has). Also don't forget him entering the timestream.

 

[Nitro90]

Oh, you might have a point, is probably just multitasking though. he can quickly switch between propelling and phasing tho (and keep the momentum he already has).

He's flight isn't nearly good enough for that neither is he's range black himself has analytical precognition and teleport. General speaking why and how would black let RF get close? He can sense all he's moments and can go long distance which isn't OOC. He would have to be stupid or arrogant just like RF would have to be to get hit.

It's why i'm leaning towards incon now

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

According to the OP, Thawne is bloodlusted, Black is in character. There's a reason Trunks has survived for so long, the Zamasus love to taunt a lot and talk to themselves.

With his low power level, it's perfectly reasonable Black might underestimate him.

 

[Nitro90]

According to the OP, Thawne is bloodlusted, Black is in character. There's a reason Trunks has survived for so long, the Zamasus love to taunt a lot and talk to themselves.

With his low power level, it's perfectly reasonable Black might underestimate him.

Even so why would he let him get close once he sees he can phase through he's attacks. Also black can sense killing intent. Bloodlusted doesn't make much a difference

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Even so why would he let him get close once he sees he can phase through he's attacks. Also black can sense killing intent. Bloodlusted doesn't make much a difference

That's based on the scenario that Black hits him in time to actually process the fact that he's phasing through attacks and needs to adjust accordingly. As far as wel know he never faced anyone with the intent to phase punch him, so while he may have some of his guard up, it isn't like Black prioritizes keeping the biggest range from his opponent as possible. Not to mention that comparable characters in Dragonball tend to be able to react to and block/avoid ki blasts, so in this speed-equalized matchup, it's not like Thawne wouldnt dodge. I mean it's kind of a thing speedsters tend to do with their speed.

Also, this is a fight to the death, killing intent is completely expected, lol. It's not like Trunks planned to spare Black or anything.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah I was wondering if Black could sense Thawne since on his page he has invisibility. Black might also think that phasing can only be used defensively (did he see Hit use it offensively?). Yeah if Thawne is bloodlusted he jumps into the timestream and after killing Zamasu (if he finds out) in the past and realizes that Black didn't die then he'll just jump out of the timestream right behind Black in the present and phase-kill him before Black realizes he's there.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Black should be able to sense Thawne's ki, but he has never interacted with Hit as far as we know.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Nitro Apparently TK will probably work on RF as long as he's not already phasing (he was disguised as Barry) since Green Lantern used lack of place to let him vibrate as an advantage. This is a pretty young RF tho and it also shows his willingness and intellect to utilize time travel to his advantage (he ran a few minutes in the past and hid behind a curtain to then catch GL off-guard since he knew where he would be standing). Thus I still vote for RF since with bloodlust he'd immediately use time travel since that is his best option and thus giving an in-character Black almost no time to use TK.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Black never saw Hit's phasing, because Hit never used it against Goku in their original fight that Zamasu/Black watched before taking Goku's body.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Orc thanks