Ren Fuji vs Gilgamesh

[ZERO7772]

Ren's briah isn't about going slowley from human speed to upper limiet but it's about reaching level where lighting itself looks frozen to him the moment he hit the braih level and he only goes faster from then, so yes he can faster himself hundred of times in instent

Doing speed equal match with character specialty is to get faster is ridiculous idea in the first place imo, Gil will stay at speed 1 while Ren will be 100-200 the moment the match hit and if you take Ren's speed from him he won't have anything left and Gil will lolstomp

 

[ZERO7772]

pretty sure it was overture during the time this was made if we go for finale then well...Gil's movements will slow just as Ren goes faster which for me makes the situation way to grave for gil plus Ren in finale is automatically bloodlusted

Didn't Gil had resistance to this tho ?

 

[FateAlbane]

Is everyone ignoring that Ren needs to

1. Actually enact his Briah.

2. Will need at least some time, dunno how many secs upon activation to actually become that much faster?

3. If he actually became insta faster like lol hundreds to thousands of times like people are implying here, he would be being blitzed or appearing utterly frozen to his opponents at first, only to, in one second or two, reverse the situation as a whole.

I'm legit amused at this. I don't remember any of Ren's matches ending in a second or two or him being blitzed in a second then proceeding to instantly blitz in the next second.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Well the speed of the chant is well...really fast hell Bakasumi can make a conversation telepathy with the souls of the children Valeria chose to get killed lasted by the time valeria finished his chant and when he was about to fire the lance...

 

[FateAlbane]

But Aizen has a point. If you tell me that he is blitzing in a second by legit opening with his Briah from the get go, making that chant then accelerating to hundreds and thousands of times his initial speed, before Gil can legit do anything about that despite knowing what's coming with Sha Nagba Imuru and being serious here, then yeah.

Might as well go all the way and call any speed equalized match a certain blitz for Ren from second 1.

 

[ZERO7772]

^Usually the VN put wall of text between each line the characters says so it takes forever for them active the damn thing from our point of view, it takes like 10 seconds to say all of it + you don't need the chant everytime you active braih, look at Schreiber activated his while stabbing kristoff without chant whatsoever

 

[ZERO7772]

But Aizen has a point. If you tell me that he is blitzing in a second by legit opening with his Briah from the get go, making that chant then accelerating to hundreds and thousands of times his initial speed, before Gil can legit do anything about that despite knowing what's coming with Sha Nagba Imuru and being serious here, then yeah.
Might as well go all the way and call any speed equalized match a certain blitz for Ren from second 1.

You don't really need chant everytime you active your briah, characters like Schreiber\Cain and Machina did it without any chant

Speed is really the only thing Ren have and if you take it from him he have nothing left

 

[FateAlbane]

Yeah, but that's ultimate troll speed Schreiber, not Ren. Every single time (or at least 90%, just leaving this margin of error in case my memory is failing me here), Ren does need to make his chant. And as far as I know, Ren would start the match without his Briah activated same way Gil won't start with EA fully charged in his hand unless he manipulates the SBA.

10 seconds is a lot of time for character fighting at these speeds, so even if I ignore the whole "how long it takes to accelerate" once it's activated, Gil does have time to do something about it since he will know from second 1 what's coming to him. I'm also being fair here and assuming the best mindset for Ren, where he won't waste a single sec and will start chanting 1st thing in the battle.

He'll need some secs for the chant, and a few more for the acceleration until it gets to the point where Gil can't really do anything about it anymore due to Ren being that much faster.

Therefore, I stand by my previous reasoning. Gil takes it 6/10 by virtue of knowing what's coming and actually having reliable means such as the initial distance, NP spam, Enkidu + Anti regen weapons to end Ren before it's too late.

As I see it, either can win, really. For me, it's all about whether Gil can finish Ren off before it gets to the point where he can't even see it coming until his neck is done for. I think he can pull it off, but I get it if others think that he can't.

 

[ZERO7772]

^It's funny how you says 10 seconds is long for these character when they on screen they spent like half of the episodes running xD anyway you have point and if me memory serves right he didn't need chant in his third battle with Cain

He doesn't need time for acceleration again the moment he hit braih time will slow down to the point where light for him look frozen and his acceleration rate is fast he can go like from x600 to 3000x in matter of second, you are overlooking his acceleration speed itself and again he don't need this level of speed in the first place the moment he hit braih match is done because speed is equalized and Gil is much slower in the first place "Well his FSN and FZ version that is "

Unless Ren waste time and actually take his handful time to actie braih he take this

 

[FateAlbane]

Yeah, but most of the times they do, soo... If we went as far as assuming that Ren won't even need to enact his Briah at all and would end it just like that, it would be the same as going "100% best scenario for the character."

If we did that assumption, anyone voting Gil could in turn assume he would pull EA from second 0 due to Sha Nagba Imuru telling him of the worst, would surround Ren from all directions with Enkidu binding space and his abilities, fully charging EA in a few secs then blasting Ren into oblivion before he could accelerate or react since he would be in a bind from the start.

So yeah. No "chantless" Briah for Ren and no insta-EA for Gil. These two things are equally unlikely to happen.

Again, that whole "Instantly turns to hundreds or thousands of times faster to blitz from the get go" sounds different from what I remember. I do know Ren accelerates extremely fast, but instantly without even factoring a few seconds sounds like extrapolation even for him from what I remember about his battles - and also from what is in his profile. It says he gets faster as seconds pass, not that in a second he insta blitzes. It was even said above that the acceleration gets faster over time (don't remember by who), reinforcing once again what I said: Before it gets to that point, either Gil puts him down (which again, I believe he has the tools to make it) or his neck is rekt. But anyways, agree to disagree.

Back to sleep here.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Light or lightning? You've mentioned both look frozen.

Also, doesn't Gil resist time manip? Ren can speed himself up, but he can't slow Gil down.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Only in finale he can slow down ppl this is overture and he made lightning look frozen light i don't think there is for him iirc

 

[Aizenishere]

I go with Ren then unless this change to Bloodlust match.

The only thing bloodlust would do is have Gil pull EA out right away. Which suprsingly he doesn't even need.. and pulling EA out right away is about as good as chainring Ren with Enkidu right away since if he does that Ren isn't going anywhere and Gil get target practise.

Everything Fate said describes this matchup perfectly.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Yeah just to clarify, Ren has like two Tier 7 forms as the one that slows down time around him (Finale) was scaled to the Three Commanders of the LDO that were Tier 6. But since they got downgraded the other day ago...

Anyways, i'm just assuming Overture Ren is being used here. Finale Ren is basically the same except he has multiple blades on his back that still has the same Relic effect and has the additional effect of slowing down everything around him to a near standstill (almost to the extent that one was almost time stopped but not quite) along with his speed enhancing ability.

But even then, i still think Gil takes this with the many tools he has in GoB, SNI if he ever gets to it at some point which he may or may not but that's up to everyone siding for him goes for it, Ea (both uncharged and charged) since it's output is much higher than Rens dura can handle, and the fact that he can also just keep his distance and cover himself with Enkidu and/or use them to chain Ren up.

 

[Aizenishere]

See here's the thing... why wouldn't he immediately chain someone who's literal only thing is speed? Especially when Gil himself KNOWS this thanks to SNI He is serious and the is like the first thing he'd probably do

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

IDK, that's what i assume. IDK what others think of what he'll do, but that's the way i made it to assume he'll do or possibly do. He may or may not, but it doesn't matter either way.

 

[Aizenishere]

well people are entitled to their thoughts.. But I mean if Rens speed enters dank levels the instant the match starts as people claim then this thread should just be closed since there really is no point.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I did more or less note of what Gil possess so however he does with Ren, he's more than likely to screw up the latter than Ren getting his neck.

IDK if that's true or not. Everlasting was the one how made his page (out of the first two-three times it got made only to be deleted due to poor quality and copy-pasting from the ACF of it but that's irrelevant to the thread here.) when he noted of Ren's speed needing to accelerate each second.

Unless Fab or whoever provides a scan of the claim, i don't see how we should close this based on that alone.

 

[Aizenishere]

Sorry I worded it poorly. That what I meant, if it turns out it is as instant as people claim (with evidence as you suggest) then we should close the thread as it'd be kind of pointless. Hmm maybe we should get everlasting input? Unless he has and I missed it

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm not gonna have this closed unless it's presented. And no, you should double check cause Ever hasn't even gotten on this thread. If you can get him on it, maybe he'll reply then.

 

[Aizenishere]

Yes that's what I'm saying/agreeing with you on. And roger roger

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Out of curiousity, why were the 3 commanders downgraded?

 

[ALRF]

They got downgraded because...they never showed any feat that confirm them being Tier 6, the only thing they got was from Eleonore being million times stronger than the normal LDO.

 

[ZERO7772]

^They were scale based on one statement that lacked the feat to back it up and the actual story show otherwise

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

The fastest we ever see Ren go is in his skirmish with Reinhard (Well, Schreiber in Rea's route but that is his Finale form). Where he goes from chanting to suddenly dishing out fifty strikes in a hundredth of a millisecond.

And you also have incantations being done and the narration noting that they've only been standing there for 1-2 seconds (sometimes not even that). And considering the two are serious, I am pretty sure Ren would just skip the incantation since there is really no need to do that. It is really just the rule of cool.

Also, Enkidu instantly wraps around you now? I mean, sure, they do pretty much appear out of anywhere, but from what I know they kinda need to touch you in order to restrain you. We see the chains being coiled around Berserker once Gilgamesh does summon them. Seems rather fair to think that they need to do this before being capable of hindering you, which in turn means they travel a certain amount of distance at a certain speed. Which I assume is faster than the speed of sound considering they managed to restrain Heracles.

Edit: Also, that three-thousand times faster thing? Only happened because Marie was in his body. Not sure if Ren himself can do that. But I do seem to remember him being capable of going at least a hundred times faster.

 

[Fabtastic_Glasses]

About the chanting. Its a fraction of a second. Prolly even less than 0,01 second if Kasumi conversation in her own route is any indication.

 

[FateAlbane]

Chanting takes less than 0,01 second? Now I've seen everything. I go back to my previous point.

We might as well go all the way and say that Ren insta-blitzes any speed equalized match from second 0, which makes this whole debate - and any match involving Ren and speed equalized - useless outside of the SBA meme, as we'll know before even making it that he blitzes and goes for the neck insta-kill.

EDIT: In fact this reasoning would make every Ren match ever a blitz for him or for his opponent. Either you put him against someone who blitzes from the get go (and has a means to kill him) or you put him against someone who can't and they get blitzed in 0 ~ 1 seconds before even thinking about doing anything. Guess Ren's lower key can't have matches either if that's the case.

 

[Aizenishere]

^this

 

[Schnee_One]

What are the votes again?

 

[Aizenishere]

8-6 to Gil rn.

8-7 If MegaCookie counts as a vote for Ren


Edit: Hizack said he changed to Ren unless this match becomes bloodlusted even though the only difference there would be EA from the get go so.. do what you will with that info.

 

[Schnee_One]

Perhaps an inconclusive is best, this is quite long.

 

[Aizenishere]

I agree. the fact the fight comes down to literally seconds and it's an extremely close match. Inconclusive might be the way to go.


Edit: especially since it's hard to predict what would happen in said seconds. who'd get the upper hand nd whatnot.

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

We don't know the exact time frame of the chant. What we do know is that it doesn't take thirty seconds or even five. Pretty much implied to be slow-motion so that we can comprehend what the hell they are saying. Lol.

And I didn't exactly vote for Ren. Just provided an argument as to why Gilgamesh won't instagib him. The wave of NPs would have been difficult... If it wasn't for the fact that when Ren really gets going, such projectiles will literally look like they are frozen in mid-air.

 

[Schnee_One]

Who are you voting?

 

[ThisIsMySwagPack]

What about Gil dual wielding two Merodachs?

 

[FateAlbane]

Perhaps an inconclusive is best, this is quite long.

We're getting to two hundred replies and I'm kinda sorta exhausted by now.

I'd be okay with Inconclusive if others agree to it.

 

[ZERO7772]

>Chanting in less than 0,01 second?

Okay this is exaggeration how do you chant in 0,01 ? lol

It take them good 10-15 second to do the whole chant

 

[Aizenishere]

We don't know the exact time frame of the chant. What we do know is that it doesn't take thirty seconds or even five. Pretty much implied to be slow-motion so that we can comprehend what the hell they are saying. Lol.
And I didn't exactly vote for Ren. Just provided an argument as to why Gilgamesh won't instagib him. The wave of NPs would have been difficult... If it wasn't for the fact that when Ren really gets going, such projectiles will literally look like they are frozen in mid-air.

All Gil can do is insta GoB him... but with Enkidu not NPS. We have to remember with SNI Gil knows what to do, what's going to happen where's going where. I get that once Ren takes off it's basically over. The argument here however is Gil can catch him before that. That stops Gil from opening gates in point blank range or Ren and just drowning him in chains. With SNI and being serious this further supports it. The problem is and has Fate has already said... If Ren can blitz at the start of a SE match then there really is no point.. If however, there is a time lag of at least seconds the people voting for Gil believe he can catch Ren in Enkidu in that 1-3 second time frame. Again.. the issue being if it literally takes less than a second to ramp up whats the point... and If Gil isnt catching him in that time frame with EVERYTHING he has going for him then know one will. and we may aswell have Ren face off against speedsters.


As others have said though I'm content with this being inconclusive if it's really going to drag on. Gil only needs vote but the match has been drawn on long enough and close enough that I think inconclusive is justifiable. You?


EDIT: btw thanks for your input on the thread. @Cookie.

 

[Schnee_One]

Unless one guy decides to show up and give a non biased vote to settle it, I'd like inconclusive.

The Ren vs Robloxian

 

[Aizenishere]

Cookie seems pretty non-biased and he still hasnt voted so. xD