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Ren Fuji vs. Battler Ushiromiya 3 matches

They don't see inconclusive results or the Masada characters loses, they just talk about stomps. Other verses don't have Taikyoku and they consider them as weaker than them. I don't think this is a stomp fight but a fight that needs to be debated and not just saying that X character stomp the the Y character because it's from a verse
 
@Peach who said this? Because i am sure as hell no Masada supporter said anything like what you're stating
 
No one told me that, maybe I am wrong but maybe right. I'm just venting my thoughts and if you didn't agree with what I said... my apologies.
 
@Velox

I am calm tho?

Just pointing out that you should read everything in a thread before writing on it, so mistakes like Dziga did wont happen.
 
It's fine. I was just a bit weirded by what you said when we admit that Cthulhu Mythos or Umineko stomps Masada

@FW it's frequent in this site. A lot of people here without knowledge about a verse will still speak as if they know about it...
 
BleedingPeach said:
They don't see inconclusive results or the Masada characters loses, they just talk about stomps. Other verses don't have Taikyoku and they consider them as weaker than them. I don't think this is a stomp fight but a fight that needs to be debated and not just saying that X character stomp the the Y character because it's from a verse
Click to expand...
I will tell you this once:

1A matches will always be a stomp and this has absolutly nothing to do with Masada and their fans. You still dont understand any of the mechanics of any verse and their cosmology, so mistakes will happen. But you demonize an entire group here out of being uninformend.

So before you participate in such threads, INFORM yourself how this topic is "debated" and how it works im general
 
Witch: I read a lot of versus and a lot of them have in common the stomp in favor of Masada and I think that I am informed. When 1-A matches were banned things were easier for debates. But maybe you are right... maybe I'm overseeing the verse and its mechanics. Like I said before: just venting my thoughts
 
The thing about Ren and infinity is true though. Shiori Kujou can gather all infinite variations of herself (who are as strong as her) and align them all. Still twatted by someone who has 61 Taikyoku value

Basically, Ren isn't just infinitely above baseline. He's greater than others who are greater than others and yadayada who infinitely transcends others
 
@ALRF

Infinitly above refers to the trandence tho, when refering to single trancendences, one would say 80 or 90 x above baseline silly Alfredo. I roughly know what Taikyoku entails, im not questioning the qualitative difference
 
Oof, i thought that you didn't know what Dziga meant when he said "infinitely above" . MB
 
Im not THAT clueless about the verse, im legit one of the few (weirdly enough) that debates for it lol.

Shows you how worrying the state of the verse is here lmao
 
"Mistakes like Dziga"

oof I'm sorry to disappoint you mom, I'm going to drink the bleach now.
 
@Dziga

Watch what you say, people might think that i told you to commit not alive, you missed an entire word!
 
First Witch said:
@Dziga

Watch what you say, people might think that i told you to commit not alive, you missed an entire word!
Click to expand...
I thought my comment was very clearly sarcastic. Or maybe yours is too, creating a double layer of sarcasm. Sarcseption.
 
ALRF said:
@Peach who said this? Because i am sure as hell no Masada supporter said anything like what you're stating
Click to expand...
I believe he is referring to the matches between Masada characters (Reinhard and Yato specifically) vs the Star Maker.

The thread for Reinhard is here. While the thread for Yato is here.

I was one of the heavy debaters for Reinhard and Yato's side in said threads. While BleedingPeach was one of Star Maker's supporters.

There is a belief that exists on this wiki that the Star Maker has infinite transcendence above baseline 1-A.

I questioned this belief, believing it to be a misinterpretation. And I gave reasoning that the Star Maker is, at best, is only a handful of levels of transcendence above baseline 1-A. See the threads for my reasoning, as I don't want to into it here on this thread.

That would mean that Reinhard and Yato would stomp the Star Maker into oblivion with their higher level of transcendence and that there is nothing the Star Maker can do.

A handful of levels is not comparable to Reinhard's 80 or 90 nor is it comparable to Yato's 100. So they stomp, simple as that.

I have stuck with my interpretation of the Star Maker's power because it was never debunked, even after asking for proof that the Star Maker existed at such a higher level of power. I was never given any.

BleedingPeach's rebuttals were not factually based, solely based on where he felt that Star Maker's power compared to those from Shinza Bansho.

And he revealed that he had little understanding of 1-A battles. Stating that "transcendence" does not equal AP and that it is something that only exists in Shinza Bansho, and not other 1-A verses, like the Mythos or Umineko for example. Here are some quotes, there are many more:

"If the Umineko characters don't have Transcende as a power in their profiles does that mean that the german and the other can clean the floor with the high tiers of the franchise?

On the other hand why the Lovecraft characters are so powerful? Basically none of them has Transcendence and yet they are utterly more powerful than the Masadaverse or Umineko (baring Featherine in a case -look to Yog-Sothoth) ones."

"Trascendence is not AP. It's just an adjective for characters like Hajun, Marie, Mercurius, Reinhard or Ren (Yes, I've ordered them alphabetically)."

So yeah, that's what he is referring to (or what I think he is referring to). That I did not concede into his interpretation of the Star Maker's strength, which wasn't based on any actual evidence.

Hope this explains it, sorry for derailing.
 
Um... Warren you have posted that in my wall. You believe that The Maker is weaker than that nazi? Belive what you want, I'm not your owner. If you felt offended by my statement, didn't want to do that.

Now... Are talking about the Beatrice that is 1-A?
 
BleedingPeach said:
Um... Warren you have posted that in my wall. You believe that The Maker is weaker than that nazi? Belive what you want, I'm not your owner. If you felt offended by my statement, didn't want to do that.
Now... Are talking about the Beatrice that is 1-A?
Click to expand...
I have made no posts on your wall. And I believe what I believe based on factual evidence and logical interpretations.

Now I will leave and stop derailing this thread even further.
 
^^I think that with the revision Beatrice would be 1-A anyway, so it matters how much into 1-A she is. Though if this is Beatrice + her untapped potential then she's probably an absurd amount of lvl above baseline 1-A (she should be above both Bern and Lambda, and touching Featherine).
 
Yeah this is a stomp in Beatrice's favor for her approaching Featherine's power which is ridiculous, Immensely high on the 1-A scale . Ren can't do nothing at all unless about Beatrice's information was a false.
 
Quick appearence.

Umineko's "CM level" wasn't proved yet. It can be lower than Shinza, it can be higher. Until its proven, you can't just say that they are beyond anything sans CM. They are definitely above baseline, tho. Also, Hadou-Type Laws are pretty weird... They just expand their influence over everything. Higher levels, lower levels or etc. Its not just "they have absurd levels of transcendence", but their weird nature as just "infinitely expanding until the law engulfs everything".


Not going to say anything anymore.
 
I remember Battler stayed unscrathced after taking on "energy beams" released by Featherin's Personal Guard - only his cassock received damage. Stumbled at if it was achieved through special conditions or not. Given that Mao Cats are somewhat comparable to Bern speaking of their status, it can be far above Ren' playground.
 
why is this still open again? Refresh my poor memory here cuz i don't remember the reason at this point
 
From the looks of it, people still misunderstand the cosmology of umineko greatly. So i will try to explain it as simply as possible. Most of these things were realized from the revision thread but it looks like alot of people didnt check it out.

First off. This isnt even a single layer in umineko https://imgur.com/gallery/EUAqhTL

Also meaning the difference between a dimensionsal objects and a object that transcends dimensions are still lesser than a single layer or step within the hierarchy since all of those concepts are just the beginning of a single step.

Remember that there are 3 domains, each infinitely layered

Human Witch And creator

Each domain has infinite steps. At this point if you put all the pieces together, each step is beyond infinite degrees of baselines 1-A infinitely stacking ontop of eachother within the human domain. What characters manipulate the fates and control this domain?

Witches. Any character classified as a witch is immeasurably above baseline 1-A
 
Incase you need any context this happened during rewrite where our hero suddenly began to go beyond the human domain into a higher layer, as he continued to go concepts started to cut away and lose their meaning. The higher he went the more concepts he came across and surpassed. He began to lose his human senses and came across indescribavle things, he went so high that the entire ladder of concepts he already surpassed dissapeared because they had no meaning to his position anymore, he had gone too high. Finally he reaches it. The peak of existence, a absolute wall of incomprehensibility that he couldnt surpass. So he returns back to his layer. But he mentions that all of these concepts are just "the first chapter"

This is a single step in the cosmology. Far above the difference between dimensional and transcendent dimensional beings
 
Game Master Battler said:
Incase you need any context this happened during rewrite where our hero suddenly began to go beyond the human domain into a higher layer, as he continued to go concepts started to cut away and lose their meaning. The higher he went the more concepts he came across and surpassed. He began to lose his human senses and came across indescribavle things, he went so high that the entire ladder of concepts he already surpassed dissapeared because they had no meaning to his position anymore, he had gone too high. Finally he reaches it. The peak of existence, a absolute wall of incomprehensibility that he couldnt surpass. So he returns back to his layer. But he mentions that all of these concepts are just "the first chapter"
This is a single step in the cosmology. Far above the difference between dimensional and transcendent dimensional beings
Click to expand...
Since when is Rewrite canon to Umineko? All Ryukishi07 did there was to be a guest writer for one route which isn't even the route (Moon) your screenshots are coming from.
 
That remind me... Is it viable to upgrade the Battler tier to 1-A? Or put a 1-A in his hax? Else I understand that he can affect 1-A with his hax but others don't, so please, is it viable or is wanking what I'm doing?
 
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