Removing SoL Kryptonian Heat Vision (DCEU CRT)

[UchihaSlayer96]

Yeah, since he was weakened in both scenarios, it should work.

 

[Hellbeast]

That's my thinking
It wouldn't put them in High 7-A but as part of the 7-A it's worth noting or even just as a possibly higher for Diana since she stuns Supes but got easily overpowered while still being in a whole other leak then the Other members not named Supes

But this is derailing lol

 

[Dalesean027]

Scaling aside since there don't seem to be any more counterarguments I agree with what's proposed in the OP.


Back to scaling lol.

 

[Hellbeast]

Right off the bat;
Shazam has a MHS stuff but we shouldn't scale anyone to him yet
Diana has an easy HHS and likely MHS+ in her solo film
We could backscale them from MOS Supes but I need opinions.

We should also calc Steppenwolf blocking Zeus' lightning but it's frame by frame. Darkseid has a version but the SnyderVerse keys are cringe

EDIT: I can't link rn but here's Steppenwolf's and Uxas' feats.
Uxas especially gets a good view of the distance between him and Zeus so that'd certainly help lol.

• (Steppenwolf)
• (Darkseid)

These would scale to everyone sub Supes since both Diana and Arthur keep up with Steppenwolf in the TC and Darkseid is explicitly equal to Doomsday according to ZS. Ares and Zeus would also likely scale from this value since Ares easily jumps the Apokalips invader just after they block the lightning. Prime Supes would also just massively upscale since he's able to statue Steppenwolf and Wonder Woman with ease

 

[Hellbeast]

Also if this goes through should we add OP's blog as a note on the relevant profiles?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Also if this goes through should we add OP's blog as a note on the relevant profiles?

Yeah, it should probably be added to Superman and Doomsday's profiles.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

This is talking about humans touching and moving light around. A normal human can interact with light by reflecting it or blocking it, like you are doing right now. Batman simply used a gauntlet and blocked it, wtf do you think actual light should do? Phase through solid objects?

Didn’t Alfred also design the gauntlet for this kinda shit? I disagree completely with the op.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You're right, you're right, sorry.

You need contradictions of it being light, it being stated to be light by a reliable source is already enough. Its not the weakest, thats very strong evidence because its literally just saying that its light

yeeeeeeeeaaaaaah...
but that's only one criteria, ignoring my upcoming counterarguments.

Blasts of solar energy which are also light. Not contradictory to anything. Solar energy is mostly light anyways

Firstly, funnily enough, none of the sources cited in the part of the Wikipedia article you linked ever mention heat, or radiation; and they barely mention light — those sources only discuss the utilization of solar energy as solar power, making that Wikipedia description moot. Secondly, you are also neglecting the various sources linked (and cited) in the blog that explains, in-depth, just what solar energy is and what it is made of.

This article that you linked explaining solar energy just mentions it being energy, it doesn't contradict it being light, since light is also energy.

Light is considered energy because it is made up of photons, which are very minute packets of energy produced when matter is heated up. On the contrary, solar energy is the result of nuclear fusion, generated when hydrogen nuclei fuse to become helium atoms under the Sun's extraordinarily extreme pressure and high temperatures. One is pure, sharp, and comprised of photons, and one is volatile, scorching and firey, and the excess energy of matter lost during fusion.

You used human technology as an example and said that they convert light into other forms of energy with their tech, therefore Clark does the same. But this is never stated to be the case for Superman, since it is still stated to be light

The process that human use to convert radiation into energy and the process that Clark's cells use to convert radiation into energy were never stated to be the same. The analogy was used because it was simpler to understand that way ;3

He absorbs the excess energy present in solar radiation.

Supernatural light is still light

Once again, it being unrealistic doesn't contradict it being light.

Refer to these images.

Its just light, except with new things added to it, like more power and all that

You would need significantly more evidence than, "but it says 'light' right here [once]," to prove that an unnatural and unique type of "light" would still qualify for lightspeed.

The rest of the arguments are just "it doesn't look like light" like as if you can tell by looking.

The rest of the arguments are not, "It doesn't look like light"; the rest of the arguments are, "It looks and acts like fire rather than light".

It would just mean its both fire and light anyways

.

If the light is powerful enough, it can simply make explosions like that and start fires

The Heat Vision is the fire.

Also, when lasers in real life produce explosions, it is through prolonged exposure to high energy masses, forcing a dangerous amount of energy from outside matter in an explosion. This is important to keep in mind, because Heat Vision rarely blows things up. In fact, in some instances, Kryptonian Heat Vision carries a concussive force that shatters its targets rather than blows them up. Sooo... this point is irrelevant. Not even su-

oh...

Were you referencing/misinterpreting this?

Kryptonian Heat Vision distinctly explodes and bursts into flames upon making contact with other matter, showering the target in scorching hot fire, with several examples pictured below.

again?

Light can emit kinetic energy too

Not nearly enough to blow two, large human beings away.

Batman simply used a gauntlet and blocked it

Normal humans cannot resist light like Bruce did. That is interaction. He was blatantly blocking the lasers and actively trying to maintain his footing under the weight of the attack. The same goes for Victor; although, he is literally a cyborg, so is he considered supernatural?

Anyway...

---

he was buffed by JL, which would only effect him

Bruce mentioned that the Mother Boxes would "boost" Clark, due to his cells' ability to absorb energy. Whether or not this references an overall jolt in energy or simply a wake-up shock to bring him back to life is up to interpretation, but the former claim makes the most sense considering how he curbstomped the Justice League, including Diana.

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Normal humans cannot resist light like Bruce did. That is interaction. He was blatantly blocking the lasers and actively trying to maintain his footing under the weight of the attack. The same goes for Victor; although, he is literally a cyborg, so is he considered supernatural?

Bruce is not a normal human though, so that kinda falls flat.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Bruce Wayne, the infamous superhero without superpowers, blocked his Heat Vision.

But is still a normal, flesh and blood, completely tangible, and completely unsupernatural human.

Being Tier 9 does not suddenly mean you are a supernatural entity beyond comprehension. Superhuman or human, he is still a human — born to two humans and trained as a human. In the context of DC, Bruce Wayne is just in his peak physical condition.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I’m free to calculate flying feats if need be.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

In 55 seconds, Clark carried Doomsday up into the sky and into outer space. Assuming he flew past the exosphere, this feat would be Massively Hypersonic (181416.96 m/s; Mach 528); although, he was struggling with Doomsday during that period as well, so he was definitely hampered.

 

[Hellbeast]

Bruce mentioned that the Mother Boxes would "boost" Clark, due to his cells' ability to absorb energy. Whether or not this references an overall jolt in energy or simply a wake-up shock to bring him back to life is up to interpretation, but the former claim makes the most sense considering how he curbstomped the Justice League, including Diana.

Clearly the latter
He’s mentioning the cells are dormant but can’t decay and the jolt would kickstart them
Kryptonian physiology simply allows Supes to come back and survive tho; it’s not an amp at all

Instead it seems the boxes are kinda like jumpstarting a car; the mechanisms are all there, you just need something to start them back up

 

[Hellbeast]

In 55 seconds, Clark carried Doomsday up into the sky and into outer space. Assuming he flew past the exosphere, this feat would be Massively Hypersonic (181416.96 m/s; Mach 528); although, he was struggling with Doomsday during that period as well, so he was definitely hampered.

He’s also not fully recovered from
Bruce’s beat down

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

HH+ isn't too bad, but yeah, better to have more solid feats.

Superman was punching Doomsday into space in a short amount of time, something like that should be in the MHS ranges. Superman's flight speed is stated to be the same as his regular speed, so MHS should scale normally from him.

There’s also Wonder Woman reacting to ares lighting and Superman’s first flight and his revival flight scene

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Also I agree with the crt

 

[Propellus]

But then again, downgrading his HV to be slower than his flight speed makes no sense, as it was literally shown to be way faster than his own normal reaction speed

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

But then again, downgrading his HV to be slower than his flight speed makes no sense, as it was literally shown to be way faster than his own normal reaction speed

When was this ?

 

[Vizer04]

I disagree FRA

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

But then again, downgrading his HV to be slower than his flight speed makes no sense, as it was literally shown to be way faster than his own normal reaction speed

“Massively Hypersonic+, Higher Attack Speed with Heat Vision” works then.

Personally neutral on SoL Heat Vision but the DCEU being MHS+ means I’d be able to make more matches without needing to equalize speed

 

[Hellbeast]

Tbh heat vision doesn’t need to be higher necessarily, we see that people clearly react to it

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Tbh heat vision doesn’t need to be higher necessarily, we see that people clearly react to it

Yeah, seems unnecessary.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Clark has been able to physically match characters like Zod, Doomsday, Wonder Woman — all of whom have reacted to and/or countered Kryptonian Heat Vision. So yeah, it seems really unnecessary to list his Heat Vision in his speed section, on top of being kinda inaccurate.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

There’s also Wonder Woman catching her sword pushed by flash so that could be good

 

[Hellbeast]

Mach 14 as calculated off site

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Read through the blog twice and most of it only exists to take up space as if more words = more convincing.

HV being more unusual means absolutely nothing. OP just waffles on about nothing all to conclude with HV not coming from a realistic source ........ its red beams from the eyes of an alien ....... being an unrealistic source was never in question.

It being called light is the most basic requirement any potential laser feat has. All this line does is bring HV to the table to be considered lightspeed. As for the rest of this section, more words that don't actually support the OP's stance.

the excerpt also explicitly mentions that Clark "[channels] the energy in his cells" into this "beam of red light", meaning, rather than actually unleashing rays of blistering light, he is simply unleashing blasts of solar energy from his eyes.

Do you ... know how light bulbs and/or torches work? Nothing too specific, just the general overview of how electricity from some source like the grid or a battery is used to produce light? Its the exact same shit as the excerpt which, even if Clark is firing energy from his eyes, light is still energy so this entire section means nothing. Clark's cells are batteries while his eyes are stupidly powerful laser emitters, it ain't that difficult. And lets not forget that Clark firing radiation/lightspeed energy from his eyes is anything new when he just happened to develop X-ray vision right before he lasered the doorknob.

The total control stuff all to once again say its unrealistic. They are lasers. From. His. Eyes. It is not, nor will it ever be a realistic source for lasers. Its why its called a superpower. You literally went on some tangent about how since humans can only perform something similar with machines, it discredits the fact that an alien can do it.

"Gentle beam" ... once again, the OP is just typing words for the sake of it. None of this stuff matters at all for the point he is trying to make and the point he does make isn't even good.

On top of that, the excerpt points out the fact that Clark can slice through sheets of metal with his Heat Vision, but he can also slice through the metal lining Kryptonian spacecrafts[2], entire I-beams[2], machine gun turrets[4], Kryptonian armor[2], and police cars[3] with ease, and reach a temperature of at least 5,500°C[13] without even being at his strongest; in the Snyder Cut, the aforementioned spacecraft metal could withstand temperatures of 3,500,000 K[14].

Honest to god, what point are you trying to make here exactly? Did you somehow think that his HV would just fail to work on a bunch of other metal or materials that have no reason to survive it? Onto the actual point he made, who cares if Supes' lasers are hotter than what we can achieve rn? Why does that stop it from being lightspeed?

Oh, and just to hammer the point home, "blast of energy"

Light is still energy.

All in all, that one excerpt that describes his Heat Vision as a "beam of red light" is completely stomped out by the multiple other excerpts, along with other canonical sources, that all refute that idea.

Nothing so far actually refutes it being light when the arguments can be boiled down to

• The house is stated to have a hot tub 5 times and stated to have a jacuzzi once so the hot tub can't be a jacuzzi and
• The batteries in the OP's torch contains light because heaven's forbid energy changes from one form to another.

HV is just fire is actually the best argument in the blog but still wrong. Lasers are hot and Supes' HV even more so as the OP likes to point out. Anyone care to explain why it isn't just superheating and burning the air around it? Just look at Cyborg reflecting it. We can very clearly see that there are two solid, red-orange-white lines (the laser) surrounded by flickering orange-red air that distorts our view of objects through it much like a heat shimmer/haze. Said haze (in the event someone tries to argue with it being orange-red) is simply being colored that shade by the color of the laser. If Kryptonian eyes were actually biological flamethrowers like the OP seems to think, said flames wouldn't have been stopped by Diana's bracelets, they wouldn't reflect off of Cyborg's shield in a straight line, they wouldn't stop at the I-beam instead of flowing around it etc. Even the comic page goes against it being fire as not only would the flames be caught in the wind, preventing it from travelling in a straight line.

Cyborg being knocked back isn't an anti feat as his shield is clearly reflective and, when one considers the sheer power behind the HV, is easily chalked up to the situation being like a solar sail or Crookes Radiometer. The alternative is that Cyborg can randomly reflect fire for no reason.

Tldr, OP clearly made their blog with a set conclusion in mind that is poorly supported and purposefully ignore common sense (like thinking light and energy are mutually exclusive) or are likely uninformed (light being able to physically affect reflective object) to push their point without even paying attention to the actual content of their evidence (lasers burning the air/causing mirages). Everything brought up either has no bearing on whether or not HV is a laser, or is easily explained by the fact it is a laser, something that the blog fails to provide an alternative for that isn't contradicted by the very scans he uses to argue it is the case.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Before any other people come rushing in with their one cent, lemme establish this right now: if it only meets one of the five criteria, it does not qualify.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Good thing it meets the reflection and called light criteria.

 

[Propellus]

Read through the blog twice and most of it only exists to take up space as if more words = more convincing.

HV being more unusual means absolutely nothing. OP just waffles on about nothing all to conclude with HV not coming from a realistic source ........ its red beams from the eyes of an alien ....... being an unrealistic source was never in question.

It being called light is the most basic requirement any potential laser feat has. All this line does is bring HV to the table to be considered lightspeed. As for the rest of this section, more words that don't actually support the OP's stance.

the excerpt also explicitly mentions that Clark "[channels] the energy in his cells" into this "beam of red light", meaning, rather than actually unleashing rays of blistering light, he is simply unleashing blasts of solar energy from his eyes.

Do you ... know how light bulbs and/or torches work? Nothing too specific, just the general overview of how electricity from some source like the grid or a battery is used to produce light? Its the exact same shit as the excerpt which, even if Clark is firing energy from his eyes, light is still energy so this entire section means nothing. Clark's cells are batteries while his eyes are stupidly powerful laser emitters, it ain't that difficult. And lets not forget that Clark firing radiation/lightspeed energy from his eyes is anything new when he just happened to develop X-ray vision right before he lasered the doorknob.

The total control stuff all to once again say its unrealistic. They are lasers. From. His. Eyes. It is not, nor will it ever be a realistic source for lasers. Its why its called a superpower. You literally went on some tangent about how since humans can only perform something similar with machines, it discredits the fact that an alien can do it.

"Gentle beam" ... once again, the OP is just typing words for the sake of it. None of this stuff matters at all for the point he is trying to make and the point he does make isn't even good.

On top of that, the excerpt points out the fact that Clark can slice through sheets of metal with his Heat Vision, but he can also slice through the metal lining Kryptonian spacecrafts[2], entire I-beams[2], machine gun turrets[4], Kryptonian armor[2], and police cars[3] with ease, and reach a temperature of at least 5,500°C[13] without even being at his strongest; in the Snyder Cut, the aforementioned spacecraft metal could withstand temperatures of 3,500,000 K[14].

Honest to god, what point are you trying to make here exactly? Did you somehow think that his HV would just fail to work on a bunch of other metal or materials that have no reason to survive it? Onto the actual point he made, who cares if Supes' lasers are hotter than what we can achieve rn? Why does that stop it from being lightspeed?

Oh, and just to hammer the point home, "blast of energy"

Light is still energy.

All in all, that one excerpt that describes his Heat Vision as a "beam of red light" is completely stomped out by the multiple other excerpts, along with other canonical sources, that all refute that idea.

Nothing so far actually refutes it being light when the arguments can be boiled down to

• The house is stated to have a hot tub 5 times and stated to have a jacuzzi once so the hot tub can't be a jacuzzi and
• The batteries in the OP's torch contains light because heaven's forbid energy changes from one form to another.

HV is just fire is actually the best argument in the blog but still wrong. Lasers are hot and Supes' HV even more so as the OP likes to point out. Anyone care to explain why it isn't just superheating and burning the air around it? Just look at Cyborg reflecting it. We can very clearly see that there are two solid, red-orange-white lines (the laser) surrounded by flickering orange-red air that distorts our view of objects through it much like a heat shimmer/haze. Said haze (in the event someone tries to argue with it being orange-red) is simply being colored that shade by the color of the laser. If Kryptonian eyes were actually biological flamethrowers like the OP seems to think, said flames wouldn't have been stopped by Diana's bracelets, they wouldn't reflect off of Cyborg's shield in a straight line, they wouldn't stop at the I-beam instead of flowing around it etc. Even the comic page goes against it being fire as not only would the flames be caught in the wind, preventing it from travelling in a straight line.

Cyborg being knocked back isn't an anti feat as his shield is clearly reflective and, when one considers the sheer power behind the HV, is easily chalked up to the situation being like a solar sail or Crookes Radiometer. The alternative is that Cyborg can randomly reflect fire for no reason.

Tldr, OP clearly made their blog with a set conclusion in mind that is poorly supported and purposefully ignore common sense (like thinking light and energy are mutually exclusive) or are likely uninformed (light being able to physically affect reflective object) to push their point without even paying attention to the actual content of their evidence (lasers burning the air/causing mirages). Everything brought up either has no bearing on whether or not HV is a laser, or is easily explained by the fact it is a laser, something that the blog fails to provide an alternative for that isn't contradicted by the very scans he uses to argue it is the case.

Do keep in mind he explicitly said he didn't know how to explain actual energy as a concept, even then, what's the point of this whole thread being made?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The **** did you want me to say; "the quantitative property that must be transferred to a body or physical system to perform work on the body, or to heat it"?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Good thing it meets the reflection and called light criteria.

Unfortunately, though, it does not come from a realistic source, it does not diffuse like real light does. So it meets two criteria while simultaneously failing two.

Peculiar, no?

 

[Antvasima]

Nullflowerblush:

You should preferably apologise to the people that you insulted earlier here, and try to shape up your behaviour in this forum in the future. Thank you.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The **** did you want me to say; "the quantitative property that must be transferred to a body or physical system to perform work on the body, or to heat it"?

...... yes

Unfortunately, though, it does not come from a realistic source, it does not diffuse like real light does. So it meets two criteria while simultaneously failing two.

Peculiar, no?

Literally no. You understand that lasers have been accepted as lightspeed with only two criteria, yes? The fact that they only meet two criteria means it has to fail the others by default or else they would meet them and fulfil more than two.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, what are the staff conclusions so far regarding what was suggested here?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Aye! Let's take a chill pill, Null.

I agree with the thread.

OP seems reasonable.

As someone who has seen many threads for this, I agree that this does not qualify as lightspeed.

So far it looks like we’re scrapping lightspeed Heat Vision and going down to MHS+

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. That is probably fine then.

 

[Propellus]

This thread still needs more inputs, especially the ones that are mostly knowledgeable in the DCEU, people just gave out valid explanations on why they disagreed with it and why it could be false

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

I'm fine with the scrapping of Lightspeed as well

 

[Antvasima]

This thread still needs more inputs, especially the ones that are mostly knowledgeable in the DCEU, people just gave out valid explanations on why they disagreed with it and why it could be false

@Matthew_Schroeder @Eficiente @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Ssr4vegito @M3X @KingEzran

Would you be willing to help out here please?

 

[KLOL506]

Unfortunately, though, it does not come from a realistic source, it does not diffuse like real light does. So it meets two criteria while simultaneously failing two.

Peculiar, no?

Not coming from a realistic light source is not a disqualifier. Lots of lasers in fiction exist not generated by actual pieces of technology.

You also don't need light to diffuse to qualify, in case you didn't notice, you can use light reflecting as a substitue as the criteria states. Like reflections off of shiny metal surfaces, water puddles or shiny flooring. Try to look if Heat Vision gives off any floor glaring or shines off of metal objects without hitting them instead of looking for the Cyborg objective (Think of a knife reflecting light with a glare due to being shiny and stuff).

Again, you don't need to check mark all the criteria to get light speed out of something. 2-3 criteria being satisfied has been more than enough to apply light speed on feats. Just noting down a few things.