Removing Schizophrenia/ adding Multiple Personalites

[Theblack6host96]

I know that the diagnosis in the first season stated that David had Schizophrenia. However, the show has shown multiple times that he actually suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder (also known as having multiple personalities). This has been explicitly shown in[[1]] the[2]near end of both seasons: more specifically in S2, when the alters Divad and DVD appear in the S2 finale to converse with David.

With that being said, is it alright if I add Multiple Personalities to his profile/reword any mention of schizophrenia in the profile?

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine, yes.

 

[Theblack6host96]

Okay. Should I wait a bit longer for input from others as well before making any changes?

 

[Ogbunabali]

Having schizophrenia doesn't mean you can't have "talks with yourself". David also actually never displayed signs of multiple personality disorder aside from just having talks with himself, which again could as well be schizophrenia.

And at the end of season two it is even brought into question whether he even has a mental disorder, or whether that's just self induced from what everyone around him says.

I think it's better to just leave it as it is and wait for season 3 to, hopefully, answer some of the questions.

 

[Antvasima]

This is likely a leftover from the comicbook authors that created and handled the character not knowing proper psychiatric classifications.

Comicbook Legion definitely has multiple personality disorder, not schizophrenia, but the stories sometimes claim that he does. If the TV version is almost the same, this should hold true for him as well.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I haven't read the comic do I can't say whether they are similar or not, but in the show he has shown traits more akin to schizophrenia rather than dissociative identity disorder.

 

[Theblack6host96]

Having schizophrenia doesn't mean you can't have "talks with yourself". David also actually never displayed signs of multiple personality disorder aside from just having talks with himself, which again could as well be schizophrenia.

And at the end of season two it is even brought into question whether he even has a mental disorder, or whether that's just self induced from what everyone around him says.

I think it's better to just leave it as it is and wait for season 3 to, hopefully, answer some of the questions.

Thee show demonstrates that he has already created alters. The first one we see that makes an appearance is his Rational Mind, which they both attribute to being created by David's power. He not only has a completely different demeanor from David, but even has a different accent/vocal inflection.

The other two, Divad and DVD, make appearances in the final episode where they are seen conversing and arguing with David. They are shown to have their own personalities, traits (DVD is more of a godkin/akin to Farouk, where as Divad is more cynical and irate), and even clothes that are different from David's appearance (DVD was wearing a yellow shirt w/ a green jacket, whereas Divad was wearing black, whereas David was wearing an orange shirt with a green jacket). And even though there is a good deal of overlap between Schizophrenia and DID, the symptoms, visual (facial expressions/body posture), and audio cues (the incoherent whispering heard when he switches alters) shown in the series have indicated David does have DID.

 

[Theblack6host96]

I haven't read the comic do I can't say whether they are similar or not, but in the show he has shown traits more akin to schizophrenia rather than dissociative identity disorder.

Misdiagnoses do happen between the two because there is alot of overlap between symptoms (and that's coming from someone with a BA in Psych). DID does have more doubt surrounding it though, but thats a discussion for another time.

 

[Theblack6host96]

This is likely a leftover from the comicbook authors that created and handled the character not knowing proper psychiatric classifications.

Comicbook Legion definitely has multiple personality disorder, not schizophrenia, but the stories sometimes claim that he does. If the TV version is almost the same, this should hold true for him as well.

The show was definitely more subtle with it, but upon multiple re-viewings of both seasons you begin to see/notice them. The way David switched in S2's finale was similar to. for lack of a better example, The Horde from the Eastrail 177 trilogy (albeit less dramatic).

 

[Ogbunabali]

Actually that would be more in line with schizophrenia rather than, dissociative identity disorder. The main part of patients with dissociative identity disorder is that they aren't aware when the other personality take control of them. While schizophrenia patients often display symptoms of seeing people that aren't there.

David has displayed, a lot more than once, symptoms of seeing people that aren't there, rather than having a completely different identity take over his body.

The only time he has shown a switch in personality, was the ending of season 2. But again that was more because the show alluded that he actually might not have a mental disorder, and that he finally accepted and became what everyone made him out to be, a villain.

 

[Theblack6host96]

Actually that would be more in line with schizophrenia rather than, dissociative identity disorder. The main part of patients with dissociative identity disorder is that they aren't aware when the other personality take control of them. While schizophrenia patients often display symptoms of seeing people that aren't there.

David has displayed, a lot more than once, symptoms of seeing people that aren't there, rather than having a completely different identity take over his body.

The only time he has shown a switch in personality, was the ending of season 2. But again that was more because the show alluded that he actually might not have a mental disorder, and that he finally accepted and became what everyone made him out to be, a villain.

Yes, but the first season already revealed that those hallucinations were due to the Shadow King. All of the forms he saw (Angriest Boy, King, Devil with the Yellow eyes) were all forms Shadow King took to manipulate David. The main reason he was diagnosed as schizophrenic was because of Farouk's ambitions.

Also, alters (in fiction at least) can switch without the host knowing/being aware time has passed. We've literally seen an example of this in another medium: Glass (2019) and Split (2016). This is even seen when David zones out/then snaps back during the trial multiple times, telling Syd and DVD to "Shut up! just let me think." And he's shown multiple switches in his personality during the final episodes, more specifically during his Trial scene in the finale. The personality switch we see in the end is more akin to the DVD alter taking over and getting them David out of the room. Also, where are you getting that the show is alluding that he lacks a mental disorder? The subtext was made pretty clear in the end that he is mentally ill AND godlike.

 

[Antvasima]

Is it possible that you are both right, and the Legion in the TV show has both diagnoses?

The original Legion (Marvel Comics) is definitely MPD though. He even has more personalities than is possible in the real world.

 

[Ogbunabali]

@Theblack6host96 I didn't read the second part to avoid spoilers, because I haven't seen both movies yet and I'm planning to, so I apologize about that.

You are right about him having hallucinations was part of Shadow King's possession, but even after that he still displayed traits of schizophrenia. I'm just saying that, especially with the end of season 2, it has been made so ambiguous and vague that it's better to leave it as it is and wait for season 3.

@Antvasima Maybe, but like I said I haven't read the comic so I can't comment about the similarities or whether it so different that we can't draw a conclusion from that.

The biggest reason I'm against this is because David never actually showed a different personality. The only thing that came close to it is the end of season 2, but like I said before, the reason why that happened was because everyone was convinced he was a villain, and he was like "Ok, if you want me to be a villain that badly, I'll become one". Other than that he hasn't shown any other personality than myself.

 

[Theblack6host96]

@Theblack6host96 I didn't read the second part to avoid spoilers, because I haven't seen both movies yet and I'm planning to, so I apologize about that.
You are right about him having hallucinations was part of Shadow King's possession, but even after that he still displayed traits of schizophrenia. I'm just saying that, especially with the end of season 2, it has been made so ambiguous and vague that it's better to leave it as it is and wait for season 3.

@Antvasima Maybe, but like I said I haven't read the comic so I can't comment about the similarities or whether it so different that we can't draw a conclusion from that.

The biggest reason I'm against this is because David never actually showed a different personality. The only thing that came close to it is the end of season 2, but like I said before, the reason why that happened was because everyone was convinced he was a villain, and he was like "Ok, if you want me to be a villain that badly, I'll become one". Other than that he hasn't shown any other personality than myself.

1. My bad, I really assumed most had seen the films. That wasnt too big of a spoiler but I understand. The only thing i mentioned was just how the alters switch, then gave an example from the s2 finale. no spoilers i promise!

2. If you look at the episode with the subtitles on, the other alters actually have names I have listed/referred to (Divad/DVD). It is somewhat ambiguous, but he does publically display broader signs of DID in the finale. He does show traits of what seemed to be schizophrenia, but the finale definitely confirmed all but verbally he has DID. And as I mentioned earlier, S1 Rational Mind functioned similar to an alter as well

3. It is possible he could have both diagnoses Ant! Im a little frustrated because there arent that many videos of those specific moments im referring to online that I could find (esp with subtitles on). At the very least we can add multiple personalities on the profile with the links I provded and just wait until June.

 

[Theblack6host96]

ill try to find a video in a bit of the mental convo he has with DVD and Divad when I can. Its right after he mindwipes Syd, where they're speaking with him about his "delusion" of being loved/a good person.

 

[Theblack6host96]

also my apologies for quoting walls of text!

 

[Ogbunabali]

The main point still stands. Seeing other people = schizophrenia, it is the most common trait. And he has never showed a split personality. Just because his hallucinations take his own form, doesn't mean they are different personalities, especially since, again, he has never shown a different personality.

And the he might not even have a mental disorder as the end also alluded to that as well, that it was all self induced.

 

[Antvasima]

Ogbunabali seems to make sense.

 

[EnnardTrap1987]

Multiple Personalities would be a good addition

 

[Theblack6host96]

The main point still stands. Seeing other people = schizophrenia, it is the most common trait. And he has never showed a split personality. Just because his hallucinations take his own form, doesn't mean they are different personalities, especially since, again, he has never shown a different personality.
And the he might not even have a mental disorder as the end also alluded to that as well, that it was all self induced.

Then why do have their own names, personality traits, clothes, hairstyles, and opinions/arguments on what David should do? They even have their own beliefs that they express to david, DVD especially. None of David's hallucinations in the show have done anything remotely similar to what Divad and DVD have done at all.

Actually, after Shadow King leaves he doesn't even have hallucinations anymore.

 

[Theblack6host96]

And unlike Rational Mind, they do reappear after he has left his head. He switches in between them multiple times. The host body (david's) literally takes on their personality traits when confronting everyone during the trial. Just because they done announce their names when they switch doesn't mean they were not switching.

Id use Glass/Split as an example, but i'm respecting the fact you havent seen either film.

But David has alters. If i can find/pull up the video it may make more sense vs. describing it.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Because in real life, patients with schizophrenia don't really often have hallucinations of people. But in fiction they do, and when they do it's usually a completely different people with their own identity.

So far in the show he has only hallucinated people, which is schizophrenia. He never actually displayed a split personality.

 

[Theblack6host96]

And the he might not even have a mental disorder as the end also alluded to that as well, that it was all self induced.

Also, where are you getting the "self-induced" bit from? He's struggled with torture and trauma from childhood. He definitely is mentally ill.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The whole ending of the season was "delusions start like any other idea" it tried to show that it was referring to the fact that David is a villain, but it makes far more sense that it refers to him having a mental disorder.

But again it's best to wait for season 3.

 

[Theblack6host96]

The whole ending of the season was "delusions start like any other idea" it tried to show that it was referring to the fact that David is a villain, but it makes far more sense that it refers to him having a mental disorder.

But again it's best to wait for season 3.

No offense meant, but that sounds like a headcanon interpretation of what the show directly displayed. Also it doesn't make sense to say that david's alters are hallucinations when divaD* literally makes an appearance in the Legion S1 recap[[1]] (albeit this time they are wearing the same clothes), then makes a direct appearance in the show later on.

 

[Theblack6host96]

Because in real life, patients with schizophrenia don't really often have hallucinations of people. But in fiction they do, and when they do it's usually a completely different people with their own identity.

So far in the show he has only hallucinated people, which is schizophrenia. He never actually displayed a split personality.

1. Yes, yes they actually do. Coming from someone with a BA in Psych, schizophrenia suffers can hallucinate other individuals in person, along with audio/sensory hallucinations.

2. He has displayed them. I just gave you examples of where to look. Even with the subtitles provided by FX, the characters names are different.

 

[Ogbunabali]

No offense meant, but that sounds like a headcanon interpretation of what the show directly displayed. Also it doesn't make sense to say that david's alters are hallucinations when divaD* literally makes an appearance in the Legion S1 recap[[1]] (albeit this time they are wearing the same clothes), then makes a direct appearance in the show later on.

Well actually what's headcanon is you trying to push for dissociative idenity disorder, when the show explicitly said, multiple times, that he has schizophrenia. And he has only shown traits of schizophrenia, yet.

1. Yes, yes they actually do. Coming from someone with a BA in Psych, schizophrenia suffers can hallucinate other individuals in person, along with audio/sensory hallucinations.

2. He has displayed them. I just gave you examples of where to look.

1. Ok? I'm in my third year of psychology and? And cases where patients with schizophrenia actually hallucinate actual people are extremely rare, and even when they do they never hallucinate them like their movie representation.

2. He quite literally never have.

 

[Theblack6host96]

Well actually what's headcanon is you trying to push for dissociative idenity disorder, when the show explicitly said, multiple times, that he has schizophrenia. And he has only shown traits of schizophrenia, yet.

1. Yes, yes they actually do. Coming from someone with a BA in Psych, schizophrenia suffers can hallucinate other individuals in person, along with audio/sensory hallucinations.

2. He has displayed them. I just gave you examples of where to look.

1. Ok? I'm in my third year of psychology and? And cases where patients with schizophrenia actually hallucinate actual people are extremely rare, and even when they do they never hallucinate them like their movie representation.

2. He quite literally never have.

1. Okay, just wanted to be sure you had an understanding of how schizophrenia works? My main point is that saying schizophrenia sufferers don't hallucinate actual people wasn't a true statement. And to get into the whole nuances of schizophrenia's depiction in fiction would digress further from the thread we're in.

2. He literally did display them. Just because he didn't get up and change his clothes or hair doesn't negate that. Did you see the S2 finale by chance?

 

[Theblack6host96]

3. Not really? I've been presenting examples and actively searching for others to provide evidence for my claims. Which is annoying with the lack of content available, but still. The proof is there for the justification of adding Multiple Personalities to his page*. And the show also displays he was misdiagnosed for schizophrenia as well, so?

 

[Ogbunabali]

1. I agree that's kinda dealing. Also avoid quoting large walls of texts.

2. He didn't though, he has only talked to hallucinations that's not dissociative identity disorder. The only time he himself has changed, was the ending of season 2, and as I've said before that was because of the whole "If you want me to be a villain I'll become one".

It's best to wait for season 3 to come out in October, most of these stuff will probably be answered there. Anything else we would assume as of right now, would be headcanon.

 

[Antvasima]

Ogbunabali makes better sense. If the show states that he has schizophrenia, and he has so far only displayed signs of schizophrenia, we should wait for later seasons before we project the traits of his comicbook incarnation onto the TV series.

 

[Theblack6host96]

1. will do. I'm still getting used to the formatting here (I rarely get on but that's been changing as of late). 2. He's never spoken with hallucinations before. Anyone he's ever spoken with were either real people or his (possible) alters (divaD, DVD, and Rational Mind). Anything else were nothing more than actual hallucinations brought on by Farouk. I'm still vid hunting for that convo he has with the previous two.

Also fyi, S3 comes out in June of this year!

 

[Ogbunabali]

2. He's never spoken with hallucinations before. Anyone he's ever spoken with were either real people or his (possible) alters (divaD, DVD, and Rational Mind). Anything else were nothing more than actual hallucinations brought on by Farouk. I'm still vid hunting for that convo he has with the previous two.

Also fyi, S3 comes out in June of this year!

That's exactly what I'm talking about. He has only interacted with those hallucinations, just because his hallucinations take the form of himself doesn't mean they are split personalities.

Oh nice I thought it was coming out in October. I'm glad I was wrong.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we close this thread?

 

[Theblack6host96]

So should we close this thread?

Not yet. I found a snippet of the video I was talking about, and the DVD alter explicitly pronouns such as "our" when talking to David. Give me a moment please

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Theblack6host96]

Okay.

I had to upload it in parts on my imgur. The other 2 parts havent uploaded yet but here's where DVD refers to the three as "us"/calls david's mind "ours" http://imgur.com/gallery/bKQg74E

Edit: this takes place in david's mind right after he gets shot at by syd. they make appearances again after this moment to David (conversing and arguing with him about his decisions) until the end of the episode. He has never interacted with any hallucinations throughout the entirety of the show in this manner at all. In fact you hear him seemingly talking to himself mentally at random intervals throughout s2 (with the subtitles even saying david 1 and david 2 when this happens). But this moment being where the other alters actually appear on screen to us/we see david interact with them

 

[Ogbunabali]

I mean again, that could very well be schizophrenia. Changing anything right now would be headcanon, let's just wait for season 3 it's in three months, there is no nees to rush things.

 

[Theblack6host96]

I mean again, that could very well be schizophrenia. Changing anything right now would be headcanon, let's just wait for season 3 it's in three months, there is no nees to rush things.

His "schizophrenia" has never manifested like that during the entirety of the show. Even on his page here it says his schizophenia was really the Shadow King toying with his head.

None of his Farouk-induced hallucinations have ever referred to him/themselves as "we" "us" or "our". the only individuals who have done that are Rational Mind, divaD, and DVD.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Yeah that's your interpretation which, as of this very moment, makes it headcanon. The only mental disorder mentioned in the show is schizophrenia, those hallucinations can be induced from that mental disorder. If you're right this can be changed in 3 months, but right now I don't see a reason to change something just because you have a hypothesis.