Removing Resistance to Absolute Zero [Bleach]

[Damage3245]

To put it simply, scaling Resistances between characters without evidence is extremely sketchy. There are plenty of examples where we don't grant Resistances to other characters just because comparable or weaker characters have them, such as Goku and Vegeta not sharing the same Resistances despite having virtually identical power-sets.

In Bleach, a few powerful Quincy are scaling to As Nodt for As Nodt's feat of surviving Rukia's Absolute Zero attack.

These characters are Yhwach, Jugram Haschwalth, Pernida Parnkgjas, Askin Nakk Le Vaar, Gerard Valkyrie, Lille Barro, Uryū Ishida and Ichigo Kurosaki (Post-Timeskip).

There's no solid evidence for these characters to get this same resistance. They're only being granted it because they're rated stronger than As Nodt (or have a higher rank than As Nodt like Yhwach's personal guards).

Since none of these characters have feats of resisting Absolute Zero, I think that it should be removed from their profiles. Only As Nodt, who has a legitimate feat, should keep it.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

I agree, except Yhwach (if it's like you said)

 

[LordGriffin1000]

If they don't have any legitimate reason for scaling other than them being stronger then I agree with the removal.

 

[Torsin]

The reason why As nodt has resistance is because of his blut vene which is a common ability shared among quincies. Not a specific special resistance that only he has. Quincies especially Yhwach who is hundreds of times more powerful than As Nodt and has shown more proficiency in using the Blut to the point of extending it outside his body and creating a barrier should logically be able to do the same thing that As Nodt did with much more ease.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

It occurred to me, isn't Gerard the better chance of resisting than anyone else on the list? (Except Yhwch) Can't he at least gain resistance with his miracle? I mean, isn't it at least healthier than the ones on the list?

 

[Purgy]

Want to point out that this is the 3rd Bleach CRT that is happening now, could have waited.

Rest will probably be discussed in the thread but Yhwach should keep it, he's showcased the most skill with Blut Vene out of anyone, he's also the progenitor of the Quincy and as such it would be a little ridiculous to say As Nodt and Royd Lloyd could do something with it he can't even though he's lived 10 of their lifetimes at the lowest.

Just to add, it seems Blut Vene in general gives resistance to things like temperature, as Royd Lloyd showcased the ability to withstand Yamamoto's heat aura which would have reduced him to ash otherwise, and As Nodt resisted Rukia's AZ, so it's pretty reasonable to say that the ability itself gives these resistances instead of a specific hidden application of it.

As far as we see, As Nodt and Royd Lloyd are just using the basic fodder application that all pure Quincy can use, they have no reason to be special in this regard and it's more realistic to say this is just something Blut Vene can do as oppose to something As Nodt's Blut Vene can do or Royd Lloyd's Blut Vene.

PS. Just because I saw it

There are plenty of examples where we don't grant Resistances to other characters just because comparable or weaker characters have them, such as Goku and Vegeta not sharing the same Resistances despite having virtually identical power-sets.

I can't even take this comparison seriously, how do you equate Blut Vene, an ability all pure Quincy can use to Vegeta and Goku not sharing resistances? It's not even a matter of power, it's the fact that Blut Vene is literally just pouring Reishi into your blood vessels, the ability itself gives the resistance not some super hidden application of it that only Royd Lloyd and Az Nodt can magically use.

Spoiler

Btw, it's hilarious to me how we're genuinely arguing a fodder like Az Nodt could do something Yhwach can't with Blut Vene, that's like saying Madara can't copy somebody elses jutsu because he never showed so himself, the equivalent here is saying Kid Sasuke has more skill with the Sharingan than Madara.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

We do have evidence. How do you think it was accepted? What you said in the OP is literally enough to scale.

Do you not know how blut works at all?

 

[SilentBob34]

If it was a specific ability unique to him then I could understand, but given its an ability that every Quincy possess I see no problem having stronger quincys having it

 

[LightReinh12345]

I also disagree with the OP FRA
They can resist with their bluts not because of high power gap

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-resistance-scaling-for-quincy-through-blut-vene.28482/

Original thread.

Op hasn’t brought anything to the table besides feelings. He hasn’t explained at all why blut can’t scale. And he seems completely unaware resistance scaling is a thing on the wiki.

 

[Torsin]

If they don't have any legitimate reason for scaling other than them being stronger then I agree with the removal.

They do have a legitimate reason though. I have no clue why Damage didn't mention the main reason resistance was granted to all these characters. It wasn't just because they are stronger but because of an ability that all pure quincy share called blut vene.

It was specifically due to this ability that As Nodt was able to resist Absolute Zero.

Blut Vene is a basic quincy ability that helps quincy channel reishi through their blood that strengthens their defenses. As nodt who at no point was stated to be extraordinarily proficient at it or special in any case was able to resist AZ using this ability. This was the main reason why the resistance was provided to people who are stronger and logically more proficient than him at the usage of blut.

The best scenario to explain this I can think of is by taking an example from Naruto. If a character with a regular sharingan or a single tomoe sharingan was able to resist mind manip of some scale wouldn't it be reasonable to scale this resistance to other characters who have a stronger sharingan or are more skilfull at using it? This was the same logic that was used here.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Unless he can prove As Nodt has some exclusive special blut vene this thread is nonsense.

 

[Damage3245]

Unless he can prove As Nodt has some exclusive special blut vene this thread is nonsense.

We have no evidence that As Nodt even used Blut Vene to survive it. There isn't any pattern of Blut Vene on him visible before or after he is frozen.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Is this a joke? Please tell me it is.

You do realize Kubo stopped drawing these patterns long ago? What kind of comicvine argument is this. According to you no Quincy at all but 1-3 uses blut.

 

[Purgy]

We have no evidence that As Nodt even used Blut Vene to survive it. There isn't any pattern of Blut Vene on him visible before or after he is frozen.

What else would have done it? We know Blut Vene gives resistance to temperature as stated by Royd Lloyd against Yhwach, thus it's reasonable to say it was due to Blut Vene, unless As Nodt is for some unknown reason resistant to AZ and it's not expanded upon.

Occam's Razor can be used here, the logical explanation is that Az Nodt used Blut Vene to resist Rukia's AZ the same way Royd Lloyd did it to resist Yama's heat.

Also, didn't Jugram also resist Yama's heat aura?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I can count on 1 hand the amount of times I’ve seen blut drawn.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; the closest thing we have to a given explanation is these two pages.

As Nodt brute-forced his way through it out of fear of Yhwach, claiming to feel nothing at all.

As for Yhwach and Jugram, I don't have any issue with them having Resistance to High Temperatures.

@Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye; if your best response to the CRT is "Is this a joke?" then kindly leave us alone and stop commenting.

 

[Tyri456]

Jugram used Blut Vene to tank extremely high heat, it seems to me, a common ability for blut vene against temperature. It doesn't make sense it tanked it randomly to be fair.

 

[Cyberblader90]

this is an odd request, but could be put on hold? There were plans to do a god tier revisions today, and having 3 open crts is a bit problematic

 

[Purgy]

@Purgy; the closest thing we have to a given explanation is these two pages.

As Nodt brute-forced his way through it out of fear of Yhwach, claiming to feel nothing at all.

As for Yhwach and Jugram, I don't have any issue with them having Resistance to High Temperatures.

So your argument is no longer about resistance scaling but instead the credibility of Az Nodt using Blut Vene to resist it?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

So according to Damage fear of Yhwach is enough to escape Absolute Zero. Not the Quincy defensive technique that they all use and has been shown to work against extreme temperatures.

Since every Quincy is deathly afraid of his majesty let’s scale everyone.

 

[Purgy]

So according to Damage fear of Yhwach is enough to escape Absolute Zero. Not the Quincy defensive technique that they all use and has been shown to work against extreme temperatures.

This

Also, Kubo disregards drawing Blut Vene a lot of the time, realistically Quincy should be using it nigh 24/7 in combat but we rarely see it.

 

[Damage3245]

So your argument is no longer about resistance scaling but instead the credibility of Az Nodt using Blut Vene to resist it?

It's about both of things, really. I think we should change As Nodt's to just "Resistance to Absolute Zero" and remove it from the other profiles.

Also, Kubo disregards drawing Blut Vene a lot of the time, realistically Quincy should be using it nigh 24/7 in combat but we rarely see it.

Realistically the Quincy should be using a ton more abilities in combat but they just don't. Stands to reason that maybe they also don't use Blut Vene and Blut Arterie 24/7.

 

[Purgy]

It's about both of things, really. I think we should change As Nodt's to just "Resistance to Absolute Zero" and remove it from the other profiles.

It doesn't make any sense though

What's more plausible?

1. He used Blut Vene, that technique that is already stated to give resistance to extreme heat so logically could also give resistance to extreme cold
2. He was so terrified that he was able to magically no sell Absolute Zero and break out.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

You haven’t given a meaningful argument at all to change anything. All your arguments here have been incredibly bad.

You’ve suggested Quincy don’t use Blut ever since it isn’t drawn.

You’ve suggested fear is what gives resistance not the Quincy defensive technique.

In the OP you suggest resistance scaling isn’t a thing when it actually is.

And you’ve argued your feelings.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm just going to point out, it's one of the biggest double standards period for them all to resist AZ and not do the same thing for Dragon Ball Super despite the latter being a lot more in our faces about power scaling in the like. The context between Vegeta's example is his sheer KI produced more pressure and/or heat than the AZ waves could freeze him. I know Blut is something that basically creates inhuman blood flows to raise durability, but I saw no mention of Blut Vene during chapter 567-568 fight scene.

1. Absolute Zero descriptions
2. Nothing too much here
3. Mentions fear
4. Slightly exceeded 4 seconds
5. And best description is this

Regardless of whether or not it is the same context, we should either give resistance to AZ to everyone with stronger Ki and Vegeta's base form post ToP, or we remove from everyone except for As Nodt. But anyway, I may come back later until I see other points.

 

[Damage3245]

It doesn't make any sense though

What's more plausible?

1. He used Blut Vene, that technique that is already stated to give resistance to extreme heat so logically could also give resistance to extreme cold
2. He was so terrified that he was able to magically no sell Absolute Zero and break out.

I'd rather not assume he uses an ability and then compound that assumption by assuming that other characters can replicate the same feat as him, despite that not being stated or implied.

The simplest thing we can put down is what we see; As Nodt broke out of being frozen by Rukia.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

So the main argument is DBZ doesn’t have it?

 

[Purgy]

I'm just going to point out, it's one of the biggest double standards period for them all to resist AZ and not do the same thing for Dragon Ball Super despite the latter being a lot more in our faces about power scaling in the like. The context between Vegeta's example is his sheer KI produced more pressure and/or heat than the AZ waves could freeze him. I know Blut is something that basically creates inhuman blood flows to raise durability, but I saw no mention of Blut Vene during chapter 567-568 fight scene.

1. Absolute Zero descriptions
2. Nothing too much here
3. Mentions fear
4. Slightly exceeded 4 seconds
5. And best description is this

Regardless of whether or not it is the same context, we should either give resistance to AZ to everyone with stronger Ki and Vegeta's base form post ToP, or we remove from everyone except for As Nodt. But anyway, I may come back later until I see other points.

I don't understand the argument of this post, how can you claim it's a double standard when I for one never participated in any DB thread regarding AZ.

Second, what's with the scans and ordering? What are you actually arguing with this post.

 

[Damage3245]

So the main argument is DBZ doesn’t have it?

The main argument is that too many unproven assumptions are being used to grant it to all of these characters.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

They’re valid assumptions. Your arguments are downright bad or just wrong.

 

[Purgy]

I'd rather not assume he uses an ability and then compound that assumption by assuming that other characters can replicate the same feat as him, despite that not being stated or implied.

The simplest thing we can put down is what we see; As Nodt broke out of being frozen by Rukia.

It's not stated As Nodt has some hidden application of Blut Vene either, and when you include the fact that both Jugram and Royd Lloyd could resist Yama's heat with Blut Vene, resistance to heat manipulation starts to become a general resistance of the ability as oppose to one specific for the character.

Regardless, we'll focus on As Nodt for now, give me a moment

 

[Bernkastelll]

Disagree

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Disagree FRA

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

whats with people bringing DBZ like it matter on a bleach thread? and then bring "well they dont have it so this verse should not have it either"

 

[Arcker123]

I disagree.

 

[Damage3245]

whats with people bringing DBZ like it matter on a bleach thread? and then bring "well they dont have it so this verse should not have it either"

I only brought it up in the OP as an example. It's not the main focus of the thread to me.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The main argument is that too many unproven assumptions are being used to grant it to all of these characters.

More like a combination of both, I don't care whether or not DBS gets upgraded or not, but leaning towards being against that because standards on undemonstrated assumptions.

But anyway, is Blut Vene even universal in that it applies to all attack categories? Because even people on the Bleach wiki are saying resistances may vary depending on character's unique blood DNA. I haven't seen sources for that, but Damage is right that "Prove a positive and not a negative" that people do resist solely because same race or same technique.

 

[Damage3245]

Disagree

I disagree.

This isn't a popularity contest and we aren't tallying votes. Simply disagreeing with it won't change anything.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

But anyway, is Blut Vene even universal in that it applies to all attack categories? Because even people on the Bleach wiki are saying resistances may vary depending on character's unique blood DNA. I haven't seen sources for that, but Damage is right that "Prove a positive and not a negative" that people do resist solely because same race or same technique.

2 types of blut

1. increases attacks
2. increases defense

if u are a pure quincy you can use it

thats about as simple as it gets