goku moved in hit time leap
and jiren was able to move when hit use his time cage on jiren which suspend a person in time and this would scale to goku
goku was able to destroy hit dimension which stores time
also I don't know if these 2 point below matter
also goku was able to move in a erased time line when he was picking up the second zeno
and goku and vegeta were holding on time machine when it was going to travel through time so there were on the outside of the time machine while holding on it
That's completely irrelevant. Also, time-skip works by skipping time, so there's no resistance.
Jiren moved in the cage of time, which is basically
time-skip applied against an opponent continuously, through what's explicitly raw strength. This doesn't even remotely scale to Universe 6 saga Goku. If anything, it proves that these techniques aren't effective against power.
Which was sheer brute force and seemingly involved no form of time manipulation. May I remind you that Buu Saga characters could puncture holes into different time continuums with their power.
We've agreed that those are outliers. Basically everyone in this thread does, as well, since they repeat immeasurable speed
ad nauseam.
Why is goku getting precognition off of this? That sort of logic sorta gives every melee fighter precog, since prediction is super important for close combat like that. Can't really react to a jab you aren't expecting, for example.
As it's being described by you, that just applies to anyone competent in melee combat. This doesn't seem like a very useful way to be applying such things.
It doesn't apply to everyone, that's why it's an ability. Also, predicting an attack from someone literally travelling into the future is far different than predicting someone who's about to attack.
The base assumption here is that Hit's "time skip" is the only technique Hit uses during his first fight with Goku.
Can Hit attack his opponent during that timeframe?
If yes then he has timestop.
If no then explain
this scene at 6:10. Y is Goku shown as immobile while Hit is attacking? Is Hit just that much faster? But, he explicitly states his timeskip is what improved. Y would the place he skips to in .2 allow him to do this?
Look at this. (8:15)
Hit's already used his time skip, the dimension around them shows as much. If this isnt stoped time then Goku is punching Hit while hes time traveling. In that case we take away time stop resistence and give the DBS cast infinite speed. I disagree with the change. Weve had these conversations since the episode aired. Its a poorly explained and demonstrated ability that is most likely just time stop. Any other interpretation wont downgrade them just give them different abilities. Alternatively he has both "Time Skip" and Time Stop during this fight.
He did only use the time-skip. That's his only ability until he evolved it to freeze Goku.
That still wouldn't actually be time stop. Even in this case, Hit wouldn't be stopping time for everyone else, he'd be moving time forward for himself. But, for the sake of argument, I'll just accept your logic even though I don't agree with it.
That second link doesn't even go up to 8:15.
And yet Goku or anyone else isn't immobile in
this scene or
here. It just inconsistency, as you have pointed out. He's also typically portrayed as attacking people
after skipping.
Or, we could assume that it's retconned and Goku was countering it by breaking into the future, which King Kai says in the very next episode. We shouldn't use fanon explanations that Vados literally says is wrong. Your silver bullets are looking more like blanks.
