I'm not in the mood at all to get too far into this given how these threads have gone so I'll make my overall case in this post and ping all the staff who participated in the original thread.
It really isn't. It's a shorthand for the explanations on the page itself. Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation comes from the nature of magic in the setting as a whole. The justification reads as such because we've established in a prior CRT that
souls are just constructs of magic/life energy, interchangeable terms.
Once again, this isn't the core idea regarding why souls are this level of concept in the first place, but merely part of it, as I've said above. Anyways;
The Form is treated as such because it shapes the physical form of a being, that is changes in said soul are reflected in their bodies. This is showcased with Garm, in which
his initial appearance visibly changes after Atreus seals Fenrir's soul in him, and actually shifts to
resemble the late wolf, unique furpatches and all.
Direction guides a being's soul to its respective afterlife, as this is what is talked about
in the case of Brok, who lost his Direction after initially being resurrected and no longer being able to make his way to his people's afterlife, the Lake of Souls.
To quote the explanation page itself;
The independence to be observed here is that not only can they exist absent of space and time, but predate them entirely. This seems to assume that the case for them being concepts is once again, solely reliant on this fact. It isn't. It's just establishing a fact about souls, so this reponse is a non-sequitir more than anything.
Also, no we do not assume souls are just unbound by space and time by default, what? This entire part feels like a response for a response's sake.
The scan there is just linking up the Primordials with the specific domain they possess. The idea that this is just the sole scan is also laughable given there was an entire
re-clarification thread when the same assumption about their justifications was brought up. To save people's time, I'll just paste the same scans and arguments that were made there.
- The Primordials; specifically their Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1) and Abstract Existence (Type 1) are better detailed here. Frankly, the use of just the image was goofy so better to have it all detailed.
- The Primordials predate the universe and time, given that they existed in the primordial realm of Chaos, with the universe itself having been created by one of them, and would exist long after it is reduced to chaos.
- Chaos, and the primordial forces within it, predating time is something common across pantheons. The Ginnungagap, or Spark of the World, is the void that preceded Ymir's existence and thus time and space, being where chaos and order meet much like how the order was brought to Chaos by Uranus creating the universe. Sutr himself reminds us that the origin of primordial magic doesn't matter and holds the same nature regardless of mythical origin.
- They are responsible for creating the entirety of the Greek World and its contents, be it physical or non-physical, being the literal concepts of the aspects of nature that they represent. Primordial forces are also synonymous with magic, which itself is an Independent Universal Concept that predates time and exists throughout all of the reality of a given pantheon.
- Holding a more fundamental existence relative to their domains than gods, who are aware of all that would ever occur within their domains across time and space and are ever present throughout them, the aspects of the world they embody are merely the physical forms of their true non-physical selves. This I especially feel should've been elaborated better, given some of the aspects (Ourea with Mountains, Ceto with the Oceans), were not as abstract as others (Thanatos with Death, Morpheus with Dreams).
The scan's point is that Kratos's awareness spans the domain of war entirely, and that he is aware of everything that occurs involving it. With "
every place war is fought or will ever be fought" being his kingdom. This is a matter of deducing what happens from the scan. A common thread throughout most of this argument is that you seem to refuse to engage with the context of a scan and would instead assume that what's posted is what you expect to see stated verbatim else it is false.
Specifically, the last part of the paragpraph, which is what I assume you have the most issue with, is explained in the last scan in that paragraph. Gaia, a Primordial, is of the earth,
the earth itself yet herself an incorporeal embodiment. This is not the same as the gods, who definitely are not literally their domains.
This is once again something addressed at the very start of the page.
What's being stated isn't "all primordials are magic". It's that all primordial forces are the same in nature across pantheons, and from what we know, said forces are magic. It's a deduction from information we have, a deduction you may not agree with sure, but information that is present all the same.
Yes. The art that is just used to show what each Primordial represents. Since Chaos represents life and life is synonymous with magic, as established on the first section of the explanation page. To repeat it;
This is the part that's foundational to everything here. Ceto is the Oceans, Uranus is the Heavens, Ourea is the Mountains and Chaos is Life. Life that, as showcased above, is one and the same as magic in the setting. So the entity that predates all of time and space, and is the source of everything in the Greek reality, is life/magic much like in the same way Gaia is
the earth itself and not just a manifestation or its embodiment.
TL;DR
- Life, souls and magic are synonymous, as the first section of the explanation page asserts. That this section is not touched a single time by OP, I will assume there isn't any disagreement here.
- Primordial forces/magic are the same across pantheons and both predate reality. This again, isn't denied by the OP, so I will take the liberty to assume it also isn't an issue.
- The scan regarding the Primordials is solely to showcase who represents what (Uranus-Heaven, Ceto-Ocean, Ourea-Mountain, Chaos-Life). With the scan of Gaia from the novelization showcasing while they fully are what physical they represent, they're true state is incorporeal and inchoate. Hence their abstract existence.
- Summing all of that up, magic predates time, as well as all beings in the Greek world, abstract or otherwise, being what Chaos truly is, and influences all of it. This is partly due to being the source of the other Primordials, but also due to sharing the same nature across pantheons with Norse runic magic, which flows through the entirety of the Nine Realms and is drawn from their very makeup. Souls, whose form aspect shapes the physical state and nature of a person, are also made up of said magic.
That is the sum total of my explanation as to why magic is a Type 1 concept and thus souls as well. I am quite frankly tired of the needless drama these threads cause, so I will just ping everyone who participated in the initial threads to upgrade this and let this come to a staff vote. Respond if you want to to this whole thing.
And frankly, can you stop it with these types of comments? Suggesting something discussed over two threads is wrong is one thing but calling it "smoke and mirrors" and insinuating that I've either pulled the wool over the evaluating staff's eyes or something is tasteless.
@KingTempest @Elizhaa @Theglassman12 @Dereck03 @UchihaSlayer96 @LordGriffin1000 @Maverick_Zero_X
