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Reinhard Heydrich vs Nicol Bolas

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Bolas has redirected stronger mindhax then the spear directly into the mind of the user, also adding his own onto it. He possessed someone in a similar way, letting them think they had penetrated their mental defenses as a ruse to get into their mind. Recently with Jace, he let Jace into his mind, then proceeded to crush it. Jace's resisted the mindhax of Emrakul, and also had to shield the rest of the gatewatch from it. Meth may have the strongest 3D mindhax, but its still 3D.
 
It's threads like this that I live for.

If Bolas leads with mind hax - which is better than Reinhard's, given the above - he should take this.
 
Clarifying that my vote is now for Bolas, for the reasons above as well as my own reasons.
 
Schro said something about the spear doing shit on it's own even if Reinhard's mind is destroyed, can anyone clarify that?
 
I am also voting bolas as of now.
 
Probs referring to Reinhard's mindfuckery is some sort of mental and spiritual pressure rather than someone or something in particular actively probing into Bolas' mind. In that regard though, how does Bolas' mindfuck works anyway? The thing you mentioned was another dude trying to probe into his mind, which Bolas purposely let him do so, then proceed to spook him in return since said dude's mind is already in Bolas' own. And his page describe his mindfuckery works via physical contact? Depending on how it really works, then the deciding factor might not even be mindfuckery in the first place, as Bolas seemingly resist the spear's pressure but on the other Bolas himself needs to get into melee range to mindfuck Reinhard
 
He can shut off minds from a distance, he just happened to let Jace into his mind to prove how monumentally outclassed he was. His touch is a seperate ability from his mindhax/telepathy.
 
Yeah that Jace example was basically just him flexing on Jace. He was like that the entire encounter with the gatewatch in general, overpowering the invincible guy with mundane physical attacks, out scheming Liliana who had been manipulating the rest of the gatewatch, deliberately getting hit by chandras fire just to show it didn't damage him then using his own fire on her, and the Jace thing. He's not normally like that, and can just destroy minds normally. As dargoo said, his touch is just a different and even more potent ability.
 
I am just going to be lazy and assume inconclusive, although I lean a tad to Nicol Bolas.

Generally speaking, they can't kill each other under most normal circumstances.

Bolas is resistant to the stuff Reinhard can use, and vice versa.

The only way outs for both are Existence Erasure and I cant exactly pin down who has the better resistance.

Even if Bolas were to be erased, he would probably come back.

Also, just looking at Reinhard resistance to mind manipulation..that isn't really much different then Bolas seen before.

Bolas crushed Jace mind, who also did not go insane after having a conservation with Emrakul and reading two Eldrazi titans minds, all three have passive mind/madness manipulation.

Bolas saving graces are Sealing and his ability to choose different timelines, which he used to defeat teferi iirc.

Reinhard saving grace is conceptual attacks, which only bypass distance, not sure if it will kill bolas.

Soul Attacks are nothing new to magic, which Bolas has survived plenty from Tetsuo, Ugin and a few others.

Mind Manipulation, which is net neutral for both, at best they will drive each other mad.

Existence Erasure, both their immortalities and regen counter.

And Power Null, which I am not sure who has the better power null.

Inconclusive for me.

And yes @DMUA, Bolas can theoretically prevent multiversal travel if he wanted, iirc he did it to both Teferi and Ugin, who he defeated.

Although don't quote me on that.
 
The eldrazi are 5d though, Rein's best resistance iirc is soear, which tbf is the best 3D mindhax on the site right now, but it's inferior to Bolas's resist.
 
Wokistan said:
The eldrazi are 5d though, Rein's best resistance iirc is soear, which tbf is the best 3D mindhax on the site right now, but it's inferior to Bolas's resist.
Click to expand...
Bolas FRA Only because I cant nitpick the feat quite yet. Pretty sure Eldrazi not ******* with Jace mind, yet Bolas shattering his is a red flag. Considering also the Eldrazi paid no serious attention to the gatewatch also has me concerned. But yeah sure, I will give dragon boi a win, I guess. Liked him more anyways.
 
Bolas is comparable to ugin who was able to actually hurt the eldrazi with his ghostfire, with it just being really inefficient. He's also been constantly gaining power since conflux, apparently approaching his premending power. Emrakul noticed the gatewatch when Liliana hurt it, and it also directly entered Jace's mind. If Bolas or Jace get any later anti feats though, it likely becomes an outlier.
 
Bolas was also in universe known for his mental stuff, among people who would otherwise resist, so there's that too.
 
I'm going to be very honest, I feel like it's heavily implied that Emrakul could have killed all of them/mindhaxed them all if it wanted to. I also feel like "5-D Mindhax Resistance" doesn't really make sense, as Jace isn't actually preventing Emrakul from mindhaxing him, he's barely delaying a casual attack at best. Even then, I still feel like Emrakul isn't directly trying to influence him, it's implied that if it did he'd already be dead or insane.

Like, random cathars like Hal and Alena could resist the mindhax just off of willpower. That feels more like exploiting a weakness than "Resisting 5-D Mindhax'.
 
The weakness of Emrakul not noticing? The passive was probably due to Emrakul being way superior and just not noticing, but when it directly went into Jace's mind he was able to stay sane, albeit barely, and Emrakul was confused as to why innistrad didn't like the mutations she gave everyone so I doubt she nerfed herself to get into Jace's head. The only ones with the resist would be Jace for having Emralil directly invade his mind and being able to make sense of it, keeping himself from insanity, and maybe Liliana for getting a real attack from Emrakul when she hit it with the chain veil. It's weird, but a 5-D mind with passive mindhax entering your mind would be very bad for your mental health if you didn't resist to some degree.
 
Hurt the Eldrazi Avatars, not their real bodies..

Otherwise, he would be High 2-A.

And I would be a very happy wanker.

And I agree with Dargoo. There is alot surrounding the feat that has me concerned.
 
"If you take shortcuts to try and grapple with what you cannot perceive, cannot even comprehend, who am I to gainsay? No one. You. Perhaps."

"Communication between us is difficult. I cannot talk to you. I do not even really know you exist. But you, your brain, it is very...adaptable."

"They are all my pieces, Jace Beleren. They always were. I just no longer want to play."

None of this is really telling me Emrakul is trying to mindhax Jace.

It entered his mind, and his mind crumbling was just the result of Emrakul being there, and him trying to understand/grapple with that fact, and what Emrakul is. It's implied there isn't even any concious effort on Emrakul's part either.
 
I feel like I remember him inflicting extreme minor damage on the real eldrazi, before they were sealed into their 4-A forms. Not really relevant to this either way. If the mindhax resist is legit, Bolas. If not, Inconvenience unless I think of anything else.
 
Now the question is are the above votes valid due to the above being debunked. If anything, back to Inconclusive. (Still want dragon boi to win)

Edit:

Also Minor Damage to real eldrazi is High 2-A.

Minor Damage to eldrazi avatar is 4-A, which is actually a low tiered feat due to the fight happening pre mending.

If it is Minor Damage.. Well, you know what to do by now.
 
Let me look for the quote I'm thinking of.
 
How does Nicol's Pre-Cog and Sealing work? That's the only combination of abilities that I see him using that can stand a chance of obtaining victory after Reinhard's new upgrade.

If the spear's presence doesn't immediately kill him that is.
 
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