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Reinhard Heydrich vs Idea of Evil

You just love these idea threads huh, pretty sure reinhard is going to win, but just going to stay neutral and watch this play out.
 
Read through the profiles. Reinhard takes this low difficulty for the following reasons:

1. Machina Saga can kill immaterial/non-corpeal beings and ignore casuality manipulation.

2. Reinhard can easily use Samiel's Mulspheimr to burn down Idea.

3. Despite Idea's range advantage being multiuniversial vs Reinhard's universial without Fumbultur Weltall even in character Reinhard would immediately go for the lance to close the distance between Idea and himself.
 
1. It isn't listed in his profile in base. If he's really Acausal, then Celestial can close this thread because causality manipulation is Idea's main way of attacking.

2. Scan? Nowhere does it state that Mulspheimr can burn down concepts.
 
Eleonore's Briah doesn't burn concept. It just burns you and make her attacks unable to miss. And the spear can erase concept considering it has the 3 Commanders' powers in it
 
Holy relic affects the physical and spiritual plane simultaneously otherwise physical attacks don't on relic users. And a simultaneous attack of both planes doesn't even guarntee that it would since the soul armor protects both planes as a default.

In tangibility is worthless here. Reinhard's palace exist outside time and space until brought back to the reality by the ritual (near the VN).

Base reinhard at the beginning of the game poked Marie's who was a gudou god before ascending to the throne. Gods are a reality of their own and Reinhard still poked her with it.

A weaker Reinhard, before the ritual (ikabey) in Dies irae prologue one shots Methuselah who's entire schtick "I'm Intangible, you can't harm me with physical strikes".

This isn't a fight or pest control, this just plain cruelty.

This ends with one shot.
 
SwordCommandos said:
Holy relic affects the physical and spiritual plane simultaneously otherwise physical attacks don't on relic users. And a simultaneous attack of both planes doesn't even guarntee that it would since the soul armor protects both planes as a default.
In tangibility is worthless here. Base reinhard at the beginning of the game poked Marie's who was a gudou god before ascending to the throne. Gods are a reality of their own and Reinhard still poked her with it.

A weaker Reinhard, before the ritual in Dies irae prologue one shots Methuselah who's entire schtick "I'm Intangible, you can't harm me with physical strikes".

This isn't a fight or pest control, this just plain cruelty.
Click to expand...
There's a difference between Non-Corporeal and Intangibility. Idea is on a whole different plane to begin with. It resides in the abyss, the deepest part of the astral plane.
 
-Goddess is multiversal.

-Goddess is universe/multiverse on her own.

-Reinhard's palace exist outside reality and time.

-He can still manifest outside his palace to reality if he acutally wants to.

-Punk a multiversal goddess at base and pokes her with his spear and reels her into his palace in his non-released state (with 0 Swastikas open) just to mess with Ren.

Idea of Evil offers nothing significant here.

Methuselah is a concept, he's Non-Corporeal and Intangible to begin with and as the concept of darkness in Ikabey he was surrounding Reinhard's palace outside the universe.

Post Ikabey, Reinhard's briah rape the abyss and the astral plane seeing as it could it expand infinite outside time and space and turned the region into his territory. He had his own universe outside time and space before the Swastikas was even open.

Reinhard still didn't give a shit and shot him with the God spear.
 
Being non corporeal doesn't really help anyway, considering what Machina's Briah could affect. All it takes is just a spear throw. And it'll end in one hit considering Methuselah is a God of Darkness who would come back as long as darkness exist but he ain't coming back after Longinuslanze'd, Idea of Evil existing due to Human's suffering wouldn't help him at all
 
SwordCommandos said:
-Goddess is multiversal.
-Goddess is universe/multiverse on her own.
Click to expand...
A Low 4-C defeated an multiversal character? Interesting

-Reinhard's palace exist outside reality and time.

-He can still manifest outside his palace to reality if he acutally wants to.

It doesn't matter where Reinhard's palace is located. He needs at least cross-universal attacks to even reach Idea. Let alone attack/kill it.

-Punk a multiversal goddess at base and pokes her with his spear and reels her into his palace in his non-released state (with 0 Swastikas open) just to mess with Ren.

Ok? I'm not sure how that helps him defeat Idea of Evil.

Idea of Evil offers nothing significant here.

Ok that's your opinion.

Methuselah is a concept, he's Non-Corporeal and Intangible to begin with and as the concept of darkness in Ikabey he was surrounding Reinhard's palace outside the universe.

You're actually completely right. I forgot Methuselah was the embodiment of darkness. Doesn't change the fact that Idea is the overlord of something important to every living thing including Reinhard, causality.

Post Ikabey, Reinhard's briah rape the abyss and the astral plane seeing as it could it expand infinite outside time and space and turned the region into his territory. He had his own universe outside time and space before the Swastikas was even open.

Expanding infinitely across Space-Time doesn't mean Reinhard can reach the Astral plane, which is a world that overlaps the real world. Not even mentioning the abyss which is inside the deepest part of the astral plane.

Reinhard still didn't give a shit and shot him with the God spear.

And Idea can take off Reinhard's individuality and turn him into nothingness. Both characters have ways to one-shot each other.
 
Reinhard is not living being to begin with, he is undead and his Gladsheim can cross multiverse. And evil is pretty much featless against anything that not human.
 
Without any feats to illustrate The Idea of Evil's power, why should we assume it can win? Idea of Evil has no showings whatsoever, hence as of right now we can only judge it based on the abilities exhibited by its mightiest followers, the God Hand.

When has the Idea of evil ever demonstrated a feat that could affect Reinhard in Berserk? Any Briah level character in dies irae is protected by real warping by imposing their own laws. Reinhard can expand his law to nigh-infinite space in briah state outside the universe.

When the idea of evil has demonstrated overpower a guy that could carve-up his own universe outside the universe. Then we'll talk about Idea of Evil's reality warping being a factor here. And Reinhard rewrite reality by just being there.

Did the Idea of Evil create the Abyss? Or the Astral Plane?

You know what's reinhard's favorite food? Souls and spirts. It's going to be an all you can eat buffet.

And this is just base Reinhard.

Reinhard already exist outside of time and space before any of the Swastikas were even opened. He already has feats of affect multiversal goddess with his spear.

That's a weaker-than-base Reinhard btw.

Control over cause and effect doesn't even matter if you can't harm the guy in the first place. It's not an omnipotent power where you can just assume it work because "reason", when all it does is switch it the order of operation. It's like assuming Gae Bolg can kill nigh-omnis because it can **** with causality. Kek.

And you're assuming the Idea of Evil, with no feats all, just pure hyperbole by God Hand dudes is going to win again Reinhard. Try again, good sir.

The Astral Plane's existence is derived from the collective subconscious of humanity. You know what's funny. Reinhard by word of God (during crowd funding for the anime) said that he can rekt Amakasu at base. And Amakasu can overpower Alaya who was multiversal in Senshinkan.

Again. This isn't even a fight. Idea of Evil. It's just classic example of Xeelee stomp.
 
I was asleep...

Anyways, this basically a chapter dedicated to Idea. If you're looking for feats then look at his profile. But please keep in mind that Idea is a supreme being.

In-verse Equalization? Idea is the overlord/controller of causality. Even Idea reality warping keeps humanity in check in the past and future.

The Idea is the abyss, the enormous heart is just its core. Loving soul doesn't change the fact that the abyss is make beings lose their individuality.

Again, this is irrelevant to Idea because also inside another universe. Which Reinhard needs to a way inside to win. While Idea controls causality/destiny including Reinhard's.

Causality Manipulation, this is what Idea controls primarily. Acausality counters this but Reinhard doesn't have it in base.

I don't believe you know what "hyperbole" means if you're using it it describe Idea's feats.

Who's this multiversal character that Reinhard defeated? No disrespect but it seems like you're reaching now. You still didn't give me an explanation on how Reinhard even enters the Astral Plane.
 
supreme being not add anything new for feats or advantage or even argument.
also his profile does not have any feats more than what he had done to powerless human or scaled from the god hand.
 
Not Jim Sterling said:
supreme being not add anything new for feats or advantage or even argument.
also his profile does not have any feats more than what he had done to powerless human or scaled from the god hand.
Click to expand...
I was referring to his/her I'm overrating Idea causality manipulation comment.
 
Not Jim Sterling said:
btw identity or individuality is basically some kind of mind shenanigans which reinhard has extreme resistance.
Click to expand...
Reinhard doesn't have a resistance to having his individuality erased. Nor can he counter Idea causality manipulation but I'll digress.
 
its existence eraser due to after he taking their individuality then he will erase them.

Btw if he/it was the darkness in every human then GG as Methuselah was darkness in everything including decillions of universes before.
 
Idea was born from the suffering of humans. It's the embodiment of negative feelings/emotions. It's also apart of the abyss, where is controls humanity with causality/fate.
 
If Reinhard is Acausal and can resist soul/mind manipulation doesn't that mean IoE can't actually do anything to him? Causality manip is lolnoped, and Abyss chain is noped by resistance to mind/soul manip
 
Eeeeh okay no, just plain wrong.

In the first place, damaging Marie shouldn't be taken as an average feat IMO. Marie was a Gudou God when that happened and thus a universe (not multiverse) herself, but she's also a very weird existence as far as Gods go. Unless we begin to take into account more... Flowery descriptions of Reinhard's power (that I don't plan to get into). Which completely defy the scale of non God characters in Shinza.

Second... When the hell has Reinhard just pulled Marie into Valhalla to mess with Ren with 0 Swastikas open? You gotta be kidding me. In the first place, Ren did not even meet Marie face to face (aside from creepy ass dreams) after ONE Swastika was opened. Kemono-dono didn't even act with no Swastikas open, as the opening of at least TWO Swastikas happens in the damn freaking COMMON ROUTE, so there's no variation to this. Furthermore, Swastika act as the lock to flow of power from Gladsheimr so, even if he could pull a shade into the Shamballa, it wouldn't have any power cause the "dam" that's keeping the power out is completely closed.

Third... Are you confusing stuff? Any idea what you are talking about? Cause I am pretty sure Hadou Briah can be screwed over by certain number of souls in the vicinity weakening it to shit. Only Gladsheimr and Atziluth are unaffected by such phenomenon. Second, if you are implying Kemono-dono set Valhalla up as an independent realm under his own power, stop. Because to do that, he needed to perform Ougon Rensei by opening Swastikas, the using Isaak's Goldene Eiwahz Swastika, which is a PSEUDO ATZILUTH level ability. He couldn't have done this casually by himself by any stretch of imagination. And he was even buffed up by doing this.

And in relation to this... What the hell are you talking about? Lui surrounding Valhalla outside of the universe? Even if you have only played one route of Dies irae and know the timeframe IKaBey takes place in, you'd know the Gladsheimr was not made into independent realm till Dies irae's Prologue. Which takes place AFTER IKaBey. And in relation to this, Briah doesn't expand infinitely nor does Valhalla, what are you talking about? That's property of Atziluth, Briah has a fixed area, which is pretty small most of the time. Reinhard's Gladsheimr, via encompassing city during Prologue, Marie and Senpai's Route has the greatest range.

And seriously... That powerscaling from Senshinkan is dishonest if I have seen it. Amakasu surpassing Alaya doesn't mean by any stretch of imagination that he is multiversal. During Bansenjin and the final battle with Fan Jinron, he didn't show multiversal stuff that would have let him solo. Instead, he showed planetary firepower via Rods from God and his Tsuidan. And speaking about his Tsuidan, one God=Kemono-dono, of which Amakasu can summon literal hordes. It is impossible for base Beast to defeat Amakasu, it'd have to be Atziluth.

Also, Kemono-dono isn't undead, what the hell? That's his Einherjar's nature, and he doesn't share it.
 
Not voting I'm iffy on this.

Also another nitpick, Methuselah isn't fully intangible, what the hell? His physical manifestation is just made of darkness so he can reform after every single attack, making them useless.
 
IoE gets s***stomped. Just like every other person in fiction (who's name isn't GEoM) who faces the VN equivalent of "my power is every power times 100!"
 
Cal, no disrespect. But do you know anything about these verses? I'm just asking because I never saw you in any threads regarding Berserk or Masadaverse (Outside of Pontos vs Ama- whatever his name is).
 
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