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Regarding Upscaling
- Thread starter Damage3245
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- powerscaling
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- 11,904
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Fine, this is better
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Feel free to edit mine if that's better for you, just open it in source and pop them there
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M3X/Sandbox
vsbattles.fandom.com
Didn't calc Tier 4 because some values like Ninatons aren't official afaik, so google can't help me.
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Baseline for High 7-A is 1 gigaton, not 775 megatons.
1 gigaton= 1000 megatons.
100 megatons= 0.1 gigaton.
(1000+100)/2= 550 megatons of TNT, this is the amount you'd need to hit in order to get the Mountain level+ rating, but this is simply an example.
Also we don't qualify for upscaling like how you said, just 3/4 of the next oncoming tier. We don't add the arithmetic mean with the upper border of the tier to then divide it. It needs to be like this, 3/4 of the next tier. For example, 1 gigaton being baseline of High 7-A, you'd need to be 3/4 that, or 750 megatons. 3/4 of the next tier means you'd hit the + anyway, like in this case, where 750 megatons is higher than 550 megatons, with 550 megatons being the value to qualify for Mountain Level+.
What you showed was you did it like this: (Arithmetic mean+baseline of next tier)/2, where 550 megatons is the arithmetic mean. As in, (550+1000)/2= 775 megatons. This is the wrong way, the former is the correct one.
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- Thread starter
- #329
@KILO506; I didn't say the baseline for High 7-A was 775 Megatons...
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Still, this isn't the number (Or I should say, method) to qualify for upscaling. The correct number would be 3/4 that of the next tier, which is definitely gonna give you the + rating due to it being higher than the arithmetic mean between the lowest and highest bounds of a tier.
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- Thread starter
- #331
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Lemme post another example.
The lowest bound of High 8-C is 2 tons of TNT. The highest is 11 tons, which is baseline 8-B.
The arithmetic mean (Through which we obtain the + rating) of 2 and 11 is 6.5 tons of TNT.
Now, 3/4 (Or 75%) of 11 tons is 8.25 tons of TNT, which easily surpasses 6.5 tons of TNT.
Get it now?
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I didn't say it was a guideline tho. I was merely saying to multiply 3/4 or 0.75 with the highest point of the tier (Which also happens to be the baseline of the next tier, as in, the highest point of a lower tier is the baseline starting point of the next tier, this isn't limited to any tier) to get the value required to upscale to the next tier.
A few more examples...
10-C/Below Average Human (40 joules being the highest point)- 0.75*40= 30 joules
10-B/Human level (100 joules)- 0.75*100= 75 joules
8-B (100 tons of TNT being the highest)- 0.75*100= 75 tons of TNT
4-B (20.08 teraFOE being the highest)- 0.75*20.08= 15.06 teraFOE
This is what I and M3X meant by "3/4 of the next tier". Do it separately for each tier.
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I don't think an overcomplication like this is required. We already have a + sign that we use like this and that's enough. Not everything has to follow a well-defined rule, and more than half of the people in the thread disagree with having a specific limit, past which characters are free to get upscaled easily. Either don't have upscaling and just rate them as "higher", or allow upscaling on a case-by-case basis but still very strictly. I am not talking about being 1.5x away from the border of the next tier, I personally feel that's quite a large gap more often than not, and even if characters are 0.8 or 0.9x from the border of the next tier, someone oneshotting them shouldn't be loosely considered for upscaling, they should be strictly examined even then.
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- Thread starter
- #339
I suggested that fervently but some people don't like it. I don't know why people just want higher tiers instead of working with what we've got.
I try giving people hypothetical scenarios where tiering didn't exist and we had to look at the numerical value that characters scale to, but I was told by DemoGodMitchAubin that he wouldn't even consider such a scenario.
Upscaling to me, is as random as seeing someone one-shot a 145 Megaton character and deciding "It makes more sense if we rate them as 160 Megatons. Or 175 Megatons."
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"I try giving people hypothetical scenarios where tiering didn't exist"
And I'm telling you I'm not willing to entertain a scenario where the tier system doesn't exist
I refuse to remove upscaling
And I'm telling you I'm not willing to entertain a scenario where the tier system doesn't exist
I refuse to remove upscaling
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I'm gonna be real here this doesn't seem that bad.
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I see literally zero issue with it
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I do not mind using a midway point between the + sign for a previous tier and the lower border for the next one for upscaling purposes, and do not find such a system complicated, but that's me.
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Anyway, what about this suggestion regarding the + signs? Is somebody willing to work on that?
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- Thread starter
- #345
M3X put this list together: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:M3X/Sandbox
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M3X said he had difficulties calculating the values going beyond Planet level so help on that side is appreciated.
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AKM makes solid points as usual, but I still think that making the 1.1x or 1.05x the requirement for upscaling to be fine feels like the least bad thing to do. I also forgot to mention I heard that Touhou has a giant powerscaling chain that make's Dragon Ball Z's look miniscule by comparison. There exist 10^100 character with each character being massively above the last and bottom of the barrel on that list being a baseline Planet level character. So using 1.3 or 1.5x would stack to like massive degrees of 3-A however you look at it.
But anyway, I still think the 1.1x is reasonable however.
But anyway, I still think the 1.1x is reasonable however.
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Yes, help is always appreciated.
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We're going in circles at this point, nobody can seem to agree on one solution
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Uh, all Touhou characters are Tier 9 or tier 3/2, last time I checked. Besides, I'm pretty sure using 1.05 would still lead to 3-A in that kinda situation
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Is somebody willing and able to come up with a compromise solution that reasonably satisfies most of us?
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The 3/4 rule seemed primarily agreed upon until AKM Sama said something
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Agnaa
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I am against basing it off the + value in that way. I prefer consistency in the multiplier jump over sticking to another part of the tiering system. If you want a multiplier at roughly that point, I'd prefer you just give every tier a 1.33x multiplier requirement.
@DDM I think (and hope) that we're still only counting one jump for the purposes of upscaling, and that adding additional characters to the chain won't increase the tier.
@DDM I think (and hope) that we're still only counting one jump for the purposes of upscaling, and that adding additional characters to the chain won't increase the tier.
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Yeah, I don't think we should be going that far, only it's an example of something I heard from Kaltias.
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