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Regarding Transcending Time and Space
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
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@Eli That addition to the time travel page came long after the rule was discussed
That's all I'm gonna derail for now.
That's all I'm gonna derail for now.
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It was me proofreading it, the gif makes sense if you are familiar with the character.Antvasima said:
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Only two changes, in more than 2 years, your and Ant's changes were the most recent. It is a fair point not derail.Andytrenom said:
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@Elizhaa Although this topic is not relating to time travel and the concept of it so it is a bit derailing to say the least.
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At this point I feel you guys are making things more stricter than it needs to be. Transcendence to Time and Space should qualify for Low 2-C (unless of course contradicted by feats and the likes)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transcend
^ every definition implies superiority to Space and Time, of which we treat as Low 2-C here at least
Now regarding whether it's infinite or Immeasurable, honestly treating it as merely infinite speed ignores the fact that transcending implies you exist beyond something and being beyond a Space-Time Continuum should easily extempt you from linear time, reaching an existence greater than 4-D time/space should at minimum make you exist above past, present and future
No offense, but this wikia has been on a spree of making simple premises more complicated than it needs and it's starting to look like flavor text
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transcend
^ every definition implies superiority to Space and Time, of which we treat as Low 2-C here at least
Now regarding whether it's infinite or Immeasurable, honestly treating it as merely infinite speed ignores the fact that transcending implies you exist beyond something and being beyond a Space-Time Continuum should easily extempt you from linear time, reaching an existence greater than 4-D time/space should at minimum make you exist above past, present and future
No offense, but this wikia has been on a spree of making simple premises more complicated than it needs and it's starting to look like flavor text
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@Super
Hmmm that is new to me. I not sure if there has a been a general consensus regarding that part of transcending time and space is basically Low 2-C.
Not to mention the possibility it could be used in a figurative sense as well rather than in a literal sense depending on context and other things.
Hmmm that is new to me. I not sure if there has a been a general consensus regarding that part of transcending time and space is basically Low 2-C.
Not to mention the possibility it could be used in a figurative sense as well rather than in a literal sense depending on context and other things.
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Not sure, I've seen people claim both, I'm just here to explain why Transcending Time and Space is indeed a Low 2-C feat, hence why I explained that firstHammerStrikes219 said:
Also yeah, I do agree we should treat it on a case by case basis, as not even statement of that nature is literal nor proven by feats. However a good portion of them are validv
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So how are variations of the term going to be treated?
- "Transcends Space-Time"
- "Is/Goes/Moves beyond Space-Time"
- "Can go past Space-Time"
- "Surpasses/Surpassed Space-Time"
- "Overcame/Can overcome Space-Time"
- "Reached beyond the limits of Space-Time"
- "Conquered Space-Time"
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I would divide in "existe outside", "immune to" and "transcend", using trasncend as exist outside at conceptual/metaphysical level. Existing outside grants by default temporal immunity, but not the other way around.
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I didn't say making explanation pages are bad. Composite Hierarchies, Hyperverse, Outerverse, Higher-Dimensional Existence, and Beyond-Dimensional Existence were all written by me, and I wrote the revised draft for Zero-Dimensionality. All of those things needed to be explained. We don't need a page for this. It's literally obvious that statements alone with no contextual backing do not warrant tier upgrades. They never have.
Bobsican
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It may be obvious, but that doesn´t mean it doesn´t have to be mentioned only because of that.Sera EX said:
Something regarding that can just be said in the Statements page and we can move on, really (if it hasn´t already)
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If a clarification is needed, then I don't mind.
If accepted, how can we word this clarification on the Tiering System?
If accepted, how can we word this clarification on the Tiering System?
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As with everything, context matters the most. One shouldn't just search for umbrella phrases that are seen a lot in fiction and try to apply them to upgrade characters. "Transcending time" in context can mean a world of different things.
It's just with the term "Higher dimension", which absolutely does not give every character attributed to it a Tier 2 rating or above. Context matters very much with our standards there.
If it didn't, you might as well argue that Highschool DxD has Higher-dimensional boob poking
It's just with the term "Higher dimension", which absolutely does not give every character attributed to it a Tier 2 rating or above. Context matters very much with our standards there.
If it didn't, you might as well argue that Highschool DxD has Higher-dimensional boob poking
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- Thread starter
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The fact that this quote exists makes me both dumbfounded and amused at the same time.Matthew Schroeder said:
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The fact that this quote exists makes me both dumbfounded and amazed at the same time.
... Same... I was like "WTF?!?" when I see that.
... Same... I was like "WTF?!?" when I see that.
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Just to mention, before i made Soul Eater 's page, i did ask Admins what tier she'd have base on the "Transcending Space and time" statement, and i was told it would Low 2-C, or even High 2-A at absolutely best.
I did try to remove the "High 2-A" from her page after some people pointed it out, but i was not given "permission" for it to be unlocked for me to remove it, that's why it is still there until now.
If it means anything to her Tier, in addition of being stated to transcend space and time, she is also stated to transcend causality. The problem really is that the very point of the character is being an unknown/mysterious entity, so purposefuly little is know about it.
I did try to remove the "High 2-A" from her page after some people pointed it out, but i was not given "permission" for it to be unlocked for me to remove it, that's why it is still there until now.
If it means anything to her Tier, in addition of being stated to transcend space and time, she is also stated to transcend causality. The problem really is that the very point of the character is being an unknown/mysterious entity, so purposefuly little is know about it.
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I got to be honest. From my personal exprience, transcending both space and time is seen as 5-D and transcending time is seen as 4-D, probably due to Dimensional Tiering. This week is the first time that I have heard transcending space-time was view as 4-D, to be honest.
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...if it helps, the realm of darkness is a timeless place anyway, so i think Xehanort would be that level anyway.
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Considering 4-D as the additional spatial dimension, 5-D by default exist outside space and time, so can freely move between times (Immesurable speed) and teleport at will (or even having nigh-omnipresence). Since there's more than five dimensions, is not considered transcendence, not from what I learn.
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Normally I not sure where this was agreed upon, but I like to mentioned that time was considered the fourth dimension rather than it being considered a spatial dimension of sorts. It is very odd to be put that way given the 3 spatial dimension part.Antoniofer said:
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so you're saying it doesn'tMatthew Schroeder said:
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so you're saying it doesn't
Given the possibility of it being taken out of context, yes.
What Matt is saying that we shouldn't taken every statement of transcending time or both time and space at face value if it gets contradicted by what has been shown and displayed.
Given the possibility of it being taken out of context, yes.
What Matt is saying that we shouldn't taken every statement of transcending time or both time and space at face value if it gets contradicted by what has been shown and displayed.
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...it was a joke
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@Zephyros
Kinda hard to tell if that was a joke though.
Kinda hard to tell if that was a joke though.
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One question here.
Has this been discussed before and if so, how many times?
Has this been discussed before and if so, how many times?
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Oh I see. No end for this topic then.
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I also agree with Matt
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I have a character that is currently relativistic via scaling to other characters. However, he is a noted to be one to casual leap through time and space and ignores the Time Paradox.
I havent changed his profile since creation, as i wasnt sure how to move forward. Based on this Character Description, what is your opinion on how youd accurate tier this?
I havent changed his profile since creation, as i wasnt sure how to move forward. Based on this Character Description, what is your opinion on how youd accurate tier this?
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So, should we add a mention of this to the Tiering System and Statements pages, and if so, what should the text say?
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"Please take note that simple statements of transcending and/or overcoming space/time without any further elaboration is not enough to grant a Universe level+ rating. Such statements could be flowery language or at most simply refer to resistance to space-time manipulation". - for the Tier System page under the definition for Universe level+
"Remember that character and narrative statements tend to use flowery language and exaggerate to certain degrees. Without any further context to clarify, statements such as characters being "beyond space-time" or especially omnipotent statements are not enough to suggest upgrades. When reviewing a statement for potential upgrades, be sure to keep this in mind." - for statements page (if required).
"Remember that character and narrative statements tend to use flowery language and exaggerate to certain degrees. Without any further context to clarify, statements such as characters being "beyond space-time" or especially omnipotent statements are not enough to suggest upgrades. When reviewing a statement for potential upgrades, be sure to keep this in mind." - for statements page (if required).
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I guess it's fine
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