Regarding the current standing of JJBA's stand speeds.

[CrossverseCrisis]

So it was about a couple or so months ago that we recently accepted the MFTL calc for the JJBA stands like Silver Chariot, The World, Star Platinum, and other A-Rank stands that are comparable to them.

Now here's the thing that's been bugging me a little while after we implemented it. The hell do we do with stands whose speed range are B and lower? I'm seeing a bit of this problem here cause for stands like Jolyne's Stone Free, it managed to go toe to toe with Pucci's Whitesnake. Problem is that i read about his original stands speed level and it was ranked as a D (though of course, this could mean towards it's agility and preformance or some other stuff according to what the JJBA wiki has described).

Though i'll let this be talked later and ask about what to do with this cause some of the JJBA characters stands have a B or lower here and i have no idea what speed level we could do to solve this.

So.....any ideas?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If a D stand was still capable of keeping up with a B stand, even barely, this would suggest the difference in speeds between the rankings isn't astronomically large.

If this is the case, then most stands lower than A (who scale from Silver Chariot's relatively lowballed calc of >300c, I would assume most other stands wouldn't be too much slower. Not sure, though.

 

[Antvasima]

If you have nothing else to scale from, I suppose that "Unknown" speed ratings are a possibility.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The high tiers have been bumped up to mftl so i think the lower tiers have to bumped up a tier as well how this works exactly idk, do we have calcs for the speed of stands below A in speed? That would be really helpful. Scaling downwards seems speculative at best unless we have proof of lower tier speeds.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well the JJBA wiki describes Speed (for Stands, of course) as this

"Measures the stands agility and preformance speed"

The thing about this is that Diego from Part 7 is ranked B when using his stands "Crazy Monster ability", and yet he was able to match up with Funny's D4C which has an A in rank.

Whitesnake is D for something and one of it's greatest feats is fighting against Stone Free who is able to punch small meteors going at high speeds.

I do agree that we may have to possibly put them at Unknown if this is the case....

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also, does Stone Free have a speed rank? That might help.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

As for putting them at unknown we do have a feat we can calc for B rank speed which is jolyne reacting to a meteor so that could work.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Also, does Stone Free have a speed rank? That might help.

Stone Free is a B from what i recall...

 

[Promestein]

Seems horribly inconsistent.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Wait...does anyone know what Magician's Red speed rank is?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

MR's a B in speed, Azathoth.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Wait...does anyone know what Magician's Red speed rank is?

B rank

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Okay, so MR could keep up with Silver Chariot, who has the >300c feat all A ranks scale to. Wouldn't it then scale to B ranks like Jolyne, as well?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This seems confusing as if a stand has a higher speed rating it should logically have the speed advantage but in jojo higher speed or power doesnt determine who wins a battle its all about strategy and circumstances a D rank in speed stand can beat an A depending on how the user uses it.

 

[Tivanenk]

The problem that I see with this is that it would create a never-ending loop of speed boosting. We have the Hanged Man, who is an A tier in speed, declared going at the speed of light. Would that mean that anyone who doesn't have a definite speed is much, much faster than him? Is the Hanged Man one of the slowest stands in JOJO? But why couldn't Kakyoin do anything about him then (or Avdol for that matter)? And if not, does he warrant a speed upgrade and be scaled to other stands? However, that would mean that Polnareff can be boosted even higher, creating a cycle of one getting boosted and the another.

Frankly, this is why I advised against MFTL JOJO in the first place. The calc wasn't wrong, but the entire premise would then be bogus. Having an A tier stand in speed be one of the lowest ranking stands when it comes to speed is almost lunacy. The fact that Polnareff struggled against him was proof enough.

And you know what? Araki doesn't care about scaling anyways. So definitely, I disapprove of making any scale unless you can scale directly from Polnareff. Speed tiers be damned.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oh the headaches are coming on this...

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Okay, so MR could keep up with Silver Chariot, who has the >300c feat all A ranks scale to. Wouldn't it then scale to B ranks like Jolyne, as well?

I dont think it's that simple if i remember correctly silver chariot was shown to be the faster of the two but magician's red had more raw power.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I dont think it's that simple if i remember correctly silver chariot was shown to be the faster of the two but it had more raw power.

It was definitely faster, but I don't remember it blitzing him. The speed advantage alone wasn't great enough to allow it the win, after all.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I dont think it's that simple if i remember correctly silver chariot was shown to be the faster of the two but it had more raw power.

It was definitely faster, but I don't remember it blitzing him. The speed advantage alone wasn't great enough to allow it the win, after all.

Yea silver chariot had an edge in speed but it was a huge edge which makes it seem like the difference between A and B isn't that huge.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Frankly, this is why I advised against MFTL JOJO in the first place. The calc wasn't wrong, but the entire premise would then be bogus. Having an A tier stand in speed be one of the lowest ranking stands when it comes to speed is almost lunacy. The fact that Polnareff struggled against him was proof enough.

They struggled due to having no idea where he would go and not yet fully understanding how his powers worked. Once they found out and knew where he was going, Silver Chariot fodderized him.

 

[Tivanenk]

Frankly, this is why I advised against MFTL JOJO in the first place. The calc wasn't wrong, but the entire premise would then be bogus. Having an A tier stand in speed be one of the lowest ranking stands when it comes to speed is almost lunacy. The fact that Polnareff struggled against him was proof enough.

They struggled due to having no idea where he would go and not yet fully understanding how his powers worked. Once they found out and knew where he was going, Silver Chariot fodderized him.

No, Polnareff himself admitted that it was easy because he could set up his rapier ahead of time and just intercept it. It would be like setting up a riot shield once you knew which body part of yours was being targetted.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

No, Polnareff himself admitted that it was easy because he could set up his rapier ahead of time and just intercept it. It would be like setting up a riot shield once you knew which body part of yours was being targetted.

That's...what I said? Once they knew how it worked, they knew how to counter it, though Silver Chariot still needed to be fast enough to actually outpace The Hanged Man's light form, which it did.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

PIS? maybe?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Ya know? Honestly back when the A Rank stands where 76c (or FTL+), it made the scaling of the stands not that probamatic.

Now? *Sigh* Not gonna comment on that...

 

[Tivanenk]

PIS? maybe?

Hate that argument because every JOJO fan uses it to discard entire facts to use one feat.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Ya know? Honestly back when the A Rank stands where 76c (or FTL+), it made the scaling of the stands not that probamatic.
Now? *Sigh* Not gonna comment on that...

Wouldn't it still be problematic due to Hanged Man having an A rank but being SoL?

I mean, you could probably make the argument that he has MFTL movement speed in reflections or something, but he travels as pure light.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd my head just went blank. :/

 

[Tivanenk]

No, Polnareff himself admitted that it was easy because he could set up his rapier ahead of time and just intercept it. It would be like setting up a riot shield once you knew which body part of yours was being targetted.

That's...what I said? Once they knew how it worked, they knew how to counter it, though Silver Chariot still needed to be fast enough to actually outpace The Hanged Man's light form, which it did.

Well yeah, he outpaced a SoL Hanged Man, I don't disagree with that. I did disagree with the MFTL thing, but that was another can of sardines on that thread.

Simply put, I'm saying we can't use Speed Tiers to grade everyone. They're inconsistent as f***. Hanged Man is A and Silver Chariot is A, yet one is SoL and the other is MFTL.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I am leaning towards putting stands below A at unknown as the rating system doesnt seem to accurate, it just seems like the same thing as with power levels it can tell how that one stand is faster than another but it doesn't say by how much. If we go by magician red a B rank relatively holding it's own against an A rank being silver chariot then the gap between A and B isn't that huge and by scaling down you would probably get Ftl or relativistic D ranks which seems ridiculous. I think that the scales are more complex than just simple A,B,C,D i imagine they each have sub categories like high,low, mid and magican's red is a high B so it can relatively keep up with an A. Silver chariot is fast but i dont think it is as fast as star platinum or the world.

But this is all speculation and i have no way to prove it hence why i say we put them at unknown and try to calc feats for lower tiers. Having the same rank doesnt mean having the exact same speed, star platinum and the world are both A's but when they first clashed the world won the exchange of blows which means the world is faster but it isnt by much and then you have hanged man which is an A but only SoL while silver chariot another A is mftl.The rankings can't be used it has to be taken case by case.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well yeah, he outpaced a SoL Hanged Man, I don't disagree with that. I did disagree with the MFTL thing, but that was another can of sardines on that thread.

Simply put, I'm saying we can't use Speed Tiers to grade everyone. They're inconsistent as f***. Hanged Man is A and Silver Chariot is A, yet one is SoL and the other is MFTL.

Yeah, all I'm saying is that regardless he'd have to be moving faster than light by a significant amount.

I don't really disagree with that, actually. I do disagree with only scaling directly from Polnareff, though. For example, if Magician's Red can keep pace with Silver Chariot, and something else can keep pace with Magician's Red, they should still scale. Unless that's what you meant in the first place.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

hanged man being only a beam of light and polnareff having to basically aim dodge him is really problematic.

we can all agree that the speed rating are inconsistent....scaling should not be based on it

 

[Tivanenk]

Yeah, Azathoth, I mentioned in my post above that if it's directly scaleable to Polnareff, then we could scale their speed based off him. Other situations - not really.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

hanged man being only a beam of light and polnareff having to basically aim dodge him is really problematic.

Polnareff or Silver Chariot? Because Polnareff himself definitely isn't FTL.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Okay since i was the guy that made this thread, i'll say this:

I'm just gonna go and see what happens tomorrow about this.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

hanged man being only a beam of light and polnareff having to basically aim dodge him is really problematic.

Polnareff or Silver Chariot? Because Polnareff himself definitely isn't FTL.

chariot

Note: while we are on the topic of speed I found a scan implying that silver chariot has to take off it's armor to intercept a measly bullet

http://i45.tinypic.com/fkr281.jpg

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

So I think what we're all leaning towards is something along the lines of:

A Stand fights and is comparable to Silver Chariot = scaled to Silver Chariot

A Stand fights and is comparable to Silver Chariot. Something else fights said Stand and is comparable or superior to it = scaled to Silver Chariot

And so on. But...

A Stand with the same speed ranking as something that was comparable to Silver Chariot = not scaled to Silver Chariot, likely unknown unless calcs or a clear speed exists

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

chariot

Note: while we are on the topic of speed I found a scan implying that silver chariot has to take off it's armor to intercept a measly bullet

http://i45.tinypic.com/fkr281.jpg

Wasn't that Hol Horse shooting at him with The Emperor? Because the Emperor is a stand itself and its bullets don't have the same property as normal bullets.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So I think what we're all leaning towards is something along the lines of:
A Stand fights and is comparable to Silver Chariot = scaled to Silver Chariot

A Stand fights and is comparable to Silver Chariot. Something else fights said Stand and is comparable or superior to it = scaled to Silver Chariot

And so on. But...

A Stand with the same speed ranking as something that was comparable to Silver Chariot = not scaled to Silver Chariot, likely unknown unless calcs or a clear speed exists

I agree with this the rankings can't work as it's too inconsistent we have to go by feats and scaling off characters with established speed feats.

 

[Tivanenk]

On the topic of bullets, if anyone wants to look at bullets, one would just look at Vento Aureo. In particular, the Sex Pistols. Regular gun, but kills stand users.

 

[Eldritch_abomination]

chariot

Note: while we are on the topic of speed I found a scan implying that silver chariot has to take off it's armor to intercept a measly bullet

http://i45.tinypic.com/fkr281.jpg

Wasn't that Hol Horse shooting at him with The Emperor? Because the Emperor is a stand itself and its bullets don't have the same property as normal bullets.

the emperor was likened to a normal revolver itself....every source I can find just says it has normal bullet speed...it's only advantage is no recoil and infinite bullets....(and homing)

he simply has the best draw in the world