Regarding our Standards for Multipliers

[The_Causality]

Ok, I suppose this is legit (there is a bunch of feat and the plot is in the direction of this level)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Question if this is Legit:

• A Bunny girl in her Super Form is "ten thousand of times" more powerful than a Crystal who have created a Galaxy (the main vilain said it and two chapter later, he throw easily a galaxy...)

If i understand correctly, if this statelmate isn't contradicted, it's good?

I would say that you need a little more than that for something so large a 10,000x...

 

[The_Causality]

Yeah i know but there is many other feat and support but it's isn't the thread for talk about it (i mean I would do a blog or a CRT about it)

 

[DontTalkDT]

So here a bit of my opinions / my input, agreeing with lots of things already mentioned (I definitely get the "late to the party"-award <.<):

• Multipliers can only be accepted if they are essentially directly stated, not reasoned from something else. That includes things like verses having powerlevels or stats, where the stats doubling should not be associated with the power doubling, unless it is directly stated to do that.
  • As such calc stacking isn't an issue, as you may not use calculations to find multipliers to begin with.
• In my opinion a multiplier should be specific on what stat it multiplies. Otherwise it might as well just refer to combat strength, which could even be increased by just combat prowess.
• Game multipliers should be treated as game mechanics, unless there is strong evidence against it.
• The higher the multiplier the higher the demand of evidence. Generally they all must come from reliable statements, meaning things like "I am twice as strong now" are ruled out by default, unless there are further explanations to it. In that context we could decide to either just keep such an open formulation or if we wish to set concrete borders after which a multiplier will have to fulfil specified criteria to be affected. That anything contradicted is not accepted goes without saying. I guess gathering lots of precedent cases helps here.
• If multipliers are stacked, it should be specified whether they apply to base strength or already multiplied strength. Furthermore they fall into higher evidence categories (e.g. if one wishes to stack two x10 multipliers one will needs x100 evidence)
• Attack related Mulipliers like "reflects with 2 times the strength of the original attack" or "cuts the power of the attack in half" are generally bound to feats on what the strongest thing they can affect are. Reason is that the energy needed to do that to a Island level technique is much higher than for a Planet level technique. Exception is if it has an explained hax mechanism.
• It should be considered that multipliers are not necessarily constant. A character being 2x faster at one time does not mean that this holds at any other time (Especially considering the abundance of "limit breaking" tropes).

 

[Wokistan]

I'm not so sure about discounting any sort of game multiplier if it makes sense. Stuff like double damage, 1.5x damage, etc is pretty common, and game multipliers generally aren't that insane. As of now, we accept Senran Kagura's frantic mode, and DOOM's quad damage.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

DT seems to makes sense. I feel like merging this as the requirement part and my post for the accepted examples should work well for a nice and detailed page.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I'm not so sure about discounting any sort of game multiplier if it makes sense. Stuff like double damage, 1.5x damage, etc is pretty common, and game multipliers generally aren't that insane. As of now, we accept Senran Kagura's frantic mode, and DOOM's quad damage.

I think he may mean more or less if someone's ATK stat starts at 999 and then becomes like 9999 with no real in verse context or such....I think.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah, I would agree with not scaling stats like that, or I general dividing to find unspoken multipliers. If stuff like what we've already allowed is fine, Don'tTalk's write up looks good to me.

 

[The_Causality]

The higher the multiplier the higher the demand of evidence.

Wish me good luck to prove the 10.000x lol

 

[DontTalkDT]

I'm not so sure about discounting any sort of game multiplier if it makes sense. Stuff like double damage, 1.5x damage, etc is pretty common, and game multipliers generally aren't that insane. As of now, we accept Senran Kagura's frantic mode, and DOOM's quad damage.

No idea about either of these, but I would say some minimal evidence should be required.

Consider 2 things:

1. As things are 99.9% of these will not reflect in feats at all. In other words in game explosions don't get bigger from carrying x2 power items.

2. Multipliers in games are often not used to reflect actually multiplying something, but just as another form of causing more damage. E.g. every second game with guns has some multiplier on headshots and likewise every second RPG has a multiplier on critical hits. I don't think many are implying that that is how things actually work in their verses.

 

[Wokistan]

Idk about SK, but DOOM has a power up that quadruples damage with all weapons straight up called quad damage. It's entry in the lore thing straight up says that it makes users and their weapons four times as strong, and details what happened when it was tested on some dude.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Well if the lore confirms the in game multipliers then it should count.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So I assume the regulations posted by DT and the examples posted by me are sufficient? (Although for the first two we are lacking examples)

 

[Antvasima]

@Dragonmasterxyz

I am fine with if the two of you collaborate to write the "Multipliers" instruction page, yes.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I think DT's proposition is good

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Dragonmasterxyz should feel completely free to write a suggestion based on his and DontTalk's outlines.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

For a page, I feel as though DT suggestion can be the main part of the text for it (i.e copy and pasting what was said here). My part would merely examples listed. I don't know if I'm the best to make an information page tho. (never actually did so before)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. DontTalk is experienced with writing instruction pages though, so you can talk with him about it if you wish.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I have created a page (It was only 43% my fault that it took so long <.<).

Corrections and additions / extended explanations to the examples are welcome.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for the help.

I made a few grammar corrections, and have also added a link to the front page of the wiki as well as to the wiki navigation bar.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not sure if linking to an external explanation for Digimon is a good idea, but otherwise it looks fine.

Help with additional examples is appreciated of course.

 

[AKM sama]

About the DB multipliers, it should be mentioned that the note is only referring to the non-canon Daizenshuu multipliers.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I am not sure if linking to an external explanation for Digimon is a good idea, but otherwise it looks fine.

I would actually encourage to include more explanations that have this degree of detail, but for those linking to a different wiki page would be pretty much necessary for length and structure reasons.

The reason I encourage that is that the other, shorter, examples we have are in my opinion harder to properly grasp for those that have no knowledge of the franchises these multipliers come from.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Chartate101]

About the DB multipliers, it should be mentioned that the note is only referring to the non-canon Daizenshuu multipliers.

non canon in a book in which Toriyama says the peope writing know what they're talking about

Fixed that for you

 

[Dark649]

I'm aware how much the multipliers would affect the dbz char., i can answer that if asked.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Is every multiplier that is accepted going to be put on the page?

 

[Dark649]

Likely only the major ones.

 

[Antvasima]

So does anybody have some good suggestions for improvements to the Multipliers page?

 

[Endless_Astrograph_Sorcerer]

non canon in a book in which Toriyama says the peope writing know what they're talking about

Fixed that for you

I think he actually suggested they know more than him about his own verse lol

And obligatory: there is no official canon in Dragon Ball

 

[AKM sama]

There is a main continuity and those multipliers were never stated in the main continuity.

I was just suggesting that we should mention that the note is only talking about the Daizenshuu multipliers, not the accepted ones, as it will create a lot of confusion.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Is every multiplier that is accepted going to be put on the page?

Nah, it isn't supposed to be a list of all accepted multipliers or anything.

We should just gather a decent amount of examples and then maybe cases that for some reason are important for reference purposes.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Alright, thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalkDT

Do you wish to create a follow-up staff forum thread that I can highlight for additional input? This one has likely turned too long for our members to notice what we currently need help with.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

So does anybody have some good suggestions for improvements to the Multipliers page?

I feel as if some more examples would be nice, however I'm not aware of any verses that use multipliers.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, The God of High School uses multipliers, and we accepted them.

 

[Antvasima]

The Dragon Ball Kaioken is also an accepted multiplier, and I think that Nanatsu no Taizai may have used multipliers as well.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I mean, overall we can add more examples overtime. However, we also don't want to crowd the page with multipliers. I think we should have a limit of like at most 3 examples per category. However, there is really no need to rush it.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, no worries, I don't think it is something that we need to add immediately. It's just a suggestion for the future.

 

[Dark649]

The DBZ series shows the Kaioken, Oozaru multipliers and Fourth Frieza states. The SS multipliers are never said in the series, we can also accept the regular fusion boost and possibly Frieza transformations, Cell and Buu absorption boosts, lastly there are the Potara Multipliers which could not be accepted since Kefla tier jump took that to another level.