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"react" in what way? Looking at a bullet coming at you isn't reacting, basically luffy in a nutshell there.
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Regarding FTL Kaido
- Thread starter GodlyCharmander
- Start date
- Status
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1. Its not a FTL feat never said it was
2. this is base luffy no haki on the ground and injured
3. He also is focusing on many things and still REACTED to the laser...
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Yes it is... If you can move your head to the beam or bullet that's coming to you is reacting
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1. So then what're you trying to prove?
2. Okay, you just proved my point.
3. Focusing on what? How did he react? I already explained why that's not reaction. You're completely in denial by ignoring my claims.
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Just want to say... Luffy could have raised his head up before the laser was fired. In which case he made no movement between the laser firing and the laser hitting him.
But this has been a lot of discussion on a feat that doesn't really seem to matter.
But this has been a lot of discussion on a feat that doesn't really seem to matter.
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Already explained above why it's not, since he's not attempting to even dodge it, and you would have no way to prove that he moved his head upward while the beam fired. Like damage said, it could be before.
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He noticed the beam because it was fired.... And then reacted
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You can even see the lines thats something is coming towards him while he is looking at the beam...
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You can only see the beam in that pic... So luffy did not and could not see the one who fired it... Otherwise they would show him/it
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Confused why the calc isn't being discussed
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What calc?
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Could’ve just been the beam charging, and not even shot. We have no way to prove that.
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The one in the OP.
Yall have derailed the living hell out of this thread
Yall have derailed the living hell out of this thread
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It could’ve just been the beam charging before it was fired, maybe he just noticed that, we have no way to prove he reacted because it was fired.
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Well that guy/girl/other thinks that pre timeskip luffy can't react to light speed...
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I never said he can’t, I’m pointing out that the specific feat you mentioned isn’t reaction, and that we have no way to tell if it was before the beam fired. Anyways, enough derailment now.
EDIT: reacting to something charged is not reacting to something fired, it’s like reacting to someone loading up a gun, compared to reacting to a bullet coming at you.
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That's the only way he could have reacted to the beam.. If it was charging then he would not look up and notice... He noticed something is coming and looked up..
Stefano4444
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Usopp and Rayleigh reacts to Yata no Kagami
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Sure
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Wasn't that brook that reacted not usopp? Right? Because the exclamation point is above brooks head not usopp? Usopp isn't even looking at it while brook is because he has no eyesUsopp and Rayleigh reacts to Yata no Kagami
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I don’t think you realize how far light can reflect or reach something, even if it’s charging it can still emit and reach luffy from far away.
EDIT: my bad this just delivered, since I’m outside.
Stefano4444
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I'm neutral about Usopp's feat, i'm not fully convinced that Pre Timeskip characters are that close to lightspeed.Wasn't that brook that reacted not usopp? Right? Because the exclamation point is above brooks head not usopp? Usopp isn't even looking at it while brook is because he has no eyes
I'm more interested about Rayleigh's feat, since that one it consistent with other feats and scaling.
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How are pre timeskip not close to light speed when they dodged it tho but
unfollowing btw... ✌
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Wtf? OP's lasers are famous for having a very noticeable charging time and glow a lot during it, Luffy simply looked to one while it was being charged.
Anyway, what even is happening here? I think the most important feats haven't been debunked, as others said before, can't we upgrade until we have more of Kizaru post-TS?
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Damage did agree to doing that earlier, I don’t know if his stance is still the same
GodlyCharmander
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- Thread starter
- #426
No idea why people think Speed is somehow linear in One Piece, Luffy went from barely lightning speed to dodging photons in the span of a arc with no explanation whatsoever. Foxy's feat is clearly a gag feat, and an outlier, since there's no explainable upgrade.
Post Enies Lobby Relativistic Feats are more debatable since most characters got an upgrade, but having Relativistic+ Reactions and Relativistic Combat isn't necessarily an argument for consistent FTL speed in the Post Timeskip era.
Also, I don't think the FTL Kizaru argument is fair at all, even during Marineford he opted to strictly use his Lightspeed attacks, even up close, rather than the supposedly "FTL Combat Speed" he has. We have seen Kizaru fighting in a serious scenario, no hint of him being faster than the lasers and kicks he opts to use.
Personally I think Ichiji's FTL feat is outlier, if Niji being Lightspeed in a specific attack was something worth stating directly by both the Manga and the Databook, I don't see Ichiji casually having faster speeds than this at all being Oda's intentions. Might be an assumption, but the one page he "blitzed" his own lasers (which seems to be a one-time thing) seems to be more of a reference for generic sentai poses like Power Rangers more than an actual articulated feat.
Also, backscaling this to ANY Gear Second Luffy like he doesn't progress is just silly tbh, Luffy progressed immensely during the fight and couldn't even keep up with Katakuri consistently with Boundman, only after he got stronger he could somewhat keep up with him Gear Second. Doesn't backscale to Doflamingo, or the ones lower than him.
Post Enies Lobby Relativistic Feats are more debatable since most characters got an upgrade, but having Relativistic+ Reactions and Relativistic Combat isn't necessarily an argument for consistent FTL speed in the Post Timeskip era.
Also, I don't think the FTL Kizaru argument is fair at all, even during Marineford he opted to strictly use his Lightspeed attacks, even up close, rather than the supposedly "FTL Combat Speed" he has. We have seen Kizaru fighting in a serious scenario, no hint of him being faster than the lasers and kicks he opts to use.
Personally I think Ichiji's FTL feat is outlier, if Niji being Lightspeed in a specific attack was something worth stating directly by both the Manga and the Databook, I don't see Ichiji casually having faster speeds than this at all being Oda's intentions. Might be an assumption, but the one page he "blitzed" his own lasers (which seems to be a one-time thing) seems to be more of a reference for generic sentai poses like Power Rangers more than an actual articulated feat.
Also, backscaling this to ANY Gear Second Luffy like he doesn't progress is just silly tbh, Luffy progressed immensely during the fight and couldn't even keep up with Katakuri consistently with Boundman, only after he got stronger he could somewhat keep up with him Gear Second. Doesn't backscale to Doflamingo, or the ones lower than him.
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But don't they get stronger every fight because of haki? Enel a lightning user did say luffy's attack was too fast...
And the next arc is when luffy fights foxy but while luffy was able to dodge photons he couldn't dodge them everytime and in the beginning was having a hard time to dodge them...
And later became more used to them...
I feel like this is consistent
And while I do think its supposed to be a cool pose... It's still a feat he did while he is shooting beams from his hand. Since luffy can dodge light pre timeskip this shouldn't be a crazy surprise...
While Niji's attack is named light speed blade.... This should not mean light speed is the fastest Niji could go since there is no other name that you can use to say faster then light (or you make a new word in the series that means it goes faster then light or something
)....
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So tell me why he would fight Rayleigh ( An actual high tier not fodder Supernova ) not using his Lightspeed attacks but prefers to use his own combat speed with a sword?
Obviously he had to try harder vs Rayleigh so he used his natural combat speed. To say we haven’t seen any hint that he could be faster is disingenuous.
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I mean really you derailed @GodlyCharmander 's thread. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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Also what about Zoro...
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Power growth is a thing, this is the same character who as a High 7-A caught hands with a 6-B, got knocked out twice and rose to being able to put said 6-B on his ass.
You can't simply dismiss a feat as gag because you think its inconsistent. There's nothing to insinuate that the feat is related to a gag, the Noro Noro dodging feats were in the midst of a serious fight.
If Pre Time Skip characters are Rel+ and the God Tiers are FTL then Rel+ is supportive evidence. The difference between Rel+ and barely FTL isn't a massive difference given the difference between the characters.
This part is also full of nonsense and your own opinion. Kizaru is never stated to be only using "Light Speed attacks" in Marineford. Do you have statements of Kizaru only using Light speed attacks in Marineford? No? Next. And Kizaru didn't even fight up close in Marineford, he was spamming range attacks for the most part and maybe only ever threw a few kicks.
Kizaru wasn't serious and neither were the Three Admirals going full force, we've seen the results of Kuzan and Akainu going all out on Punk Hazzard, the very climate was permanently changed, Marineford wasn't. Also Kizaru was litererally trolling everyone in Marineford, he's gotten serious, his entire character revolves around being lazy.
Oda intentions aren't to have Niji's Henry Blazer being the benchmark of the verse, otherwise he would have stated it like he does with characters that he puts at the pinnacle, which is something Oda outright states, Whitebeard being the strongest Man, Kaido bring the strongest creature, Whitebeard's Gura being the strongest DF, etc. This is definitely reaching if I've ever seen it.
Oh boy here we go lmaoo, so are we really gonna dismiss a feat because it only happens once? Alright let me downgrade Gremmy and Irene's meteorite since they only summoned it "once" and I'm not even gonna entertain that power Rangers argument, unless you have a direct statement of Oda having that as a Power Rangers reference then its a moot point.
Boundman litererally got Kata off guard several times, he needed Snakeman to try to blitz Kata's precog, so again false comparison.
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@MonkeyOfLife; that feat isn't accepted because the shockwave itself is an unknown speed. The air is reflected at lightspeed to the paw-shaped shockwave but we don't treat the shockwave itself as being lightspeed.
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That's not proof of FTL tho, a rel+ can fight a rel+, both can react to light speed casually, indeed it's much harder to hit a rel+ with a LS laser due to it going in a straight path than it is for another human who can use not much worse speed + complex movements(at least when there is some distance like 2m or 3m), and that is when speed is the only thing at play, when there is precog and possibly even future sight at play it makes no sense to say that "trying harder" is exclusively about speed.
I also don't know why exactly Kizaru would be trying harder, but that's more because i don't remember what happened.
That makes no sense, the attack is by no way portrayed as being his casual speed and much less his slowest attack, it makes no sense to give a character the "super cool attack that moves at light speed" and then have this character as FTL for everything but his special attack, if we had more calcs (maybe calcs about crossing x massive distance in y timeframe or something like that) and statements about things going beyond light speed it could be explained as the author not knowing how fast their characters are (more or less the same thing as lightning) but all we have are MHS+ to Rel+ feats, and many light speed specific powers or attacks. That and the name isn't what was used, but a statement (from a databook iir).While Niji's attack is named light speed blade.... This should not mean light speed is the fastest Niji could go since there is no other name that you can use to say faster then light (or you make a new word in the series that means it goes faster then light or something
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I'm not using it to prove FTL.
I'm saying there are instances where Kizaru chooses to pick his natural combat speed over his devil fruit combat speed.
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Tbf, you have to remember each DF has some form of weakness. Scientifically speaking, light can only travel in a straight line, and there's also uses of reflections that CAN be used against Kizaru. He can't move recklessly against a powerful Haki user like Rayleigh. Sticking to using his own physical speed would make sense here if it is proven that he can't use his conventional mobility while in light-form.
The problem with the scaling here is that we're genuinely trying to justify FTL speeds for relatively mid-tier characters, including those who have been tagged by Kizaru's beams in the first place (which are high-tiers like Marco).
For cases like Ichiji who has an on-panel feat of outrunning his own light beams, I can understand giving him "At least SoL" or "FTL" travel speed with his Raid Suit's boosters. But I don't see how this would scale to someone like Katakuri who just stood there, let Ichiji land a strike, then promptly beat him to a pulp by catching him in that moment. It's not like they played TAG. Katakuri just grabbed him--presumably mid-attack (Also, Future-sight makes it far easier for a slower character to time a counter against a faster character).
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I share this viewpoint.
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Not SOL The Repeling not the shockwave is LS. Also using this would result in Rela-Rela+ ships because if his Shockwave was constantly LS it would mean Luffy went to Amazon Lilly at LS speedAlso what about Zoro...
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I agree, but my point is someone who is arguing Rayleigh should be FTL but yet he says
"Also, I don't think the FTL Kizaru argument is fair at all, no hint of him being faster than the lasers and kicks he opts to use."
When Kizaru kept up with Rayleigh with his natural combat speed.
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Katakuri dodging him should scale since ichiji is FTL and defeating ichiji should also scale... You can't say Katakuri is only Relativistic when he defeats someone who is FTL easily....
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It should be light speed since both the laser and the Shockwave share the same difficulty... There is no reason for Kuma to use the Shockwave as a projectile since he has lasers if the shock wave didn't move at light speed...
Air repelled at light speed would mean Kuma is repelling the air at light speed... Otherwise there is no reason to say light speed... Only it repels the air
hard to explain with text Zoro actually had harder time with the Shockwave then the laser... Which should give you an example how fast it moves...
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