Regarding Darth Vader

[Cropfist]

Since he's 80% as powerful as Darth Sidious (who's small planet), shouldn't he be moon level?

 

[Lina_Shields]

The statement that Darth Vader is 80% as powerful as Sidious is highly flawed as we do not see DV showing anything close to what Palpatine has shown.

At best DV is only slightly stronger than Anakin Skywalker.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Lina basically summed up why the statement is invalid, in addition to where it would make scaling rather wonky with just how many characters Darth Vader has fought.

 

[Aparajita]

At best DV is only slightly stronger than Anakin Skywalker.

That's... actually a really bad generalization. Vader is much stronger than Clone Wars Anakin was by a large degree.

He learned much more under Sidious in the novels than he ever did under any Jedi. His swordsmanship also improved hugely.

Vader has the capacity to become 80% of Sidious instead of being over 200% of what Sidious could do (per Lucas).

At the end of Return of the Jedi, it could be safe to assume that he's 80% of Sidious.

 

[Lina_Shields]

We can argue that Vader is much more skilled than Anakin due to more knowledge, but Vader lost a lot of force potential due to his injuries back on Mustafar.

Also, in the EU version of Star Wars, Palpatine managed to get a lot stronger than before after cloning himself with a younger body (that version of Palpatine managed to be stomp Luke Skywalker and make him into his apprentice for a while I believe).

Keep in mind that the Luke Skywalker in that version should be leagues above the version that Darth Vader was facing.

What Everlasting had said applies as well, as if Darth Vader truly was 80% of Sidious, all of the Jedi that Darth Vader had faced would power-scale (which they don't, considering that Vitiate, a sith who is below Darth Sidious managed subatomically drain an entire planet, which most Jedi can't even come close to).

 

[Aparajita]

We can argue that Vader is much more skilled than Anakin due to more knowledge, but Vader lost a lot of force potential due to his injuries back on Mustafar.
Also, in the EU version of Star Wars, Palpatine managed to get a lot stronger than before after cloning himself with a younger body (that version of Palpatine managed to be stomp Luke Skywalker and make him into his apprentice for a while I believe)

No... Palpatine didn't body swap until Dark Empire, which is faster his death aboard the Death Star.

He lost the potential to be 200% of Sidious' power, instead he was "Capped" if you will, at 80% of Sidious' Power at the time of Return of the Jedi.

In Dark Empire, Sidious and Luke are both leagues above Vader, no one is denying that, and should still be.

While Vitate is a good power-scaler, you have to remember the sources and the power of the Dark Side at the time of Vitate's Empire.

Darth Plagueis, the one who taught Sidious so much about the force, should be *stronger* than Vitate.

In Plagueis' novel, both Plagueis, Sidious, and Plagueis' Master, Tenebrous stated that Plagueis, not Sidious was the Dark Lord that the Bane Line had been searching for. Sidious defeated Plagueis not through strength but deception. If you ask me, it's not that Vader would be too strong, that Sidious and the like would be *too weak*

They literally state that Plagueis is "The strongest Sith Lord that has ever lived" Before Sidious destroyed the Order. Meaning that Plagueis should be above Vitate, and Sidious was Leagues above Plagueis, meaning that Sidious should be *leagues* above Vitate's feat.

 

[Legion350]

This makes sense.

 

[Lina_Shields]

This is the feat that lands Darth Plagueis his tiering. Basically, Naboo suffers an extremely cold winter just by Plagueis visiting the planet, which only makes us wonder what he truly is capable of.

 

[Aparajita]

This is the feat that lands Darth Plagueis his tiering. Basically, Naboo suffers an extremely cold winter just by Plagueis visiting the planet, which only makes us wonder what he truly is capable of.

I posted a thread that puts Plagueis in a tier higher than Vitate and it's been getting support so far.