Record Of Ragnarok Discussion Thread #1

[Phsccarvalho]

Volundrs aren’t there to give the Einherjar the ability to harm gods but weapons that can survive contact with divine weapons.

When they talk about Jack’s gloves, it’s a generalisation since the point of it all is to emphasise that anything he touches is a viable weapon, not that it can actually harm any god since Thor causes the strongest divine weapon to snap in his hand unless the strongest defense nerfs him. Jack’s arms would break if he tried to use Dear God on the likes of Thor.

Jack talks about how anything he touches becomes a weapon capable of hurting a god. Even blood could harm Heracles if it was a divine weapon.

The Hammer breaking in Thor's hand has nothing to do with its durability, it's simply LS.

Also, you focus too much on what is said of Volunds in the opening caps, and totally forget how they are described again in round 4. It's pretty clear throughout the fight that any divine weapon can harm a god. Unless you say that for some reason Heracles has the worst durability of all the Ragnarok gods, due to being wounded by a divine stone and divine blood.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Also would Adam, Lu Bu, and Raiden be the only 5-B humans if some of the other gods get downscaled to 5-C+?

Why 5-C+ and not the tier just below 5-B, Low 5-B (+)?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Jack talks about how anything he touches becomes a weapon capable of hurting a god. Even blood could harm Heracles if it was a divine weapon.

Once again, it’s a generalisation

The Hammer breaking in Thor's hand has nothing to do with its durability, it's simply LS.

No, it’s his AP. The force of his swing breaking his weapon is not a LS feat.

Also, you focus too much on what is said of Volunds in the opening caps, and totally forget how they are described again in round 4. It's pretty clear throughout the fight that any divine weapon can harm a god. Unless you say that for some reason Heracles has the worst durability of all the Ragnarok gods, due to being wounded by a divine stone and divine blood.

Volunds have the AP to harm gods, sure. But that is an insane range of durability. We are hardly gonna say Adamas (the guy) or Ares is as tough as the likes of Hades who can walk off his own AP + Poseidon’s or Beel who can take Chaos which terrifies the shit outta Zeus.

All Jack’s stuff proves is that he can harm Herc tiers and below.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Why 5-C+ and not the tier just below 5-B, Low 5-B (+)?

I don't know

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Why 5-C+ and not the tier just below 5-B, Low 5-B (+)?

Because nobody but you remembers Small Planet.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Once again, it’s a generalisation

If blood didn't hurt Heracles I would agree.

Volunds have the AP to harm gods, sure. But that is an insane range of durability. We are hardly gonna say Adamas (the guy) or Ares is as tough as the likes of Hades who can walk off his own AP + Poseidon’s or Beel who can take Chaos which terrifies the shit outta Zeus.

All Jack’s stuff proves is that he can harm Herc tiers and below.

Yes, there is a difference in durability, but it doesn't come out of 5-B. Also, I don't know why you're comparing Beel to Hades. Hades faced a much older Beel who didn't even use the staff that intensifies his vibrations.

Heracles, who is a top tier god, was wounded in the "same way" whether it was simply blood, or knives or a building that had been transformed into divine weapons.

Divine weapons are common and even blood or a stone turned into divine weapons could hurt a top tier god like Heracles (since he is part of the 13)

It's pretty clear to me that regardless of the divine weapon, they can at least minimally harm any god.

Also, as you said.

All Jack’s stuff proves is that he can harm Herc tiers and below.

The level of Heracles is still a top tier god who is part of the 13 who were called to Ragnarok.

And again, blood and a small stone can harm you just because they become divine weapons.

As bruhilde said, divine weapons in general are "cheat weapons". And it is well shown how anything like blood can harm one of the strongest gods simply by being turned into a divine weapon.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

In the official translation of my country it is said that Zeus also releases at "high speed" the condensed energy that was redirected to his fists.

If it were said that this move was his fastest as well...

EDIT: I'm talking about the true right hand of the gods.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

If blood didn't hurt Heracles I would agree

And like I already said, all that does is show that Jack’s gloves amp things to the point of harming Herc’s level and below. That in no way means he is harming people far and away stronger and more durable.

Yes, there is a difference in durability, but it doesn't come out of 5-B. Also, I don't know why you're comparing Beel to Hades. Hades faced a much older Beel who didn't even use the staff that intensifies his vibrations.

… I’m not comparing Beel to Hades, I’m emphasising the sheer gap between the durability of different gods by putting the likes of Hades and Beel on the high end and gutter trash like Adamas and Ares on the lower end.

Heracles, who is a top tier god, was wounded in the "same way" whether it was simply blood, or knives or a building that had been transformed into divine weapons.

Divine weapons are common and even blood or a stone turned into divine weapons could hurt a top tier god like Heracles (since he is part of the 13)

It's pretty clear to me that regardless of the divine weapon, they can at least minimally harm any god.

Also, as you said.

The level of Heracles is still a top tier god who is part of the 13 who were called to Ragnarok.

And again, blood and a small stone can harm you just because they become divine weapons.

As bruhilde said, divine weapons in general are "cheat weapons". And it is well shown how anything like blood can harm one of the strongest gods simply by being turned into a divine weapon.

Heracles is one of the top 13 gods but that doesn’t mean all 13 are in the same tier. As I already pointed out, the likes of Thor and Beel are very clearly built different by feats alone when it comes to durability. Feats that all eclipse the likes of what Jack can output so no, he cannot harm “any god”. If Jack uses it on Hades for example, Hades ass is gonna have two new holes in it cuz he is a low to mid tier and Heracles would decapitate him. The strongest of the strongest gods like Beel and Thor are walking that off.

 

[Cyber_VERGIL]

Guys, wouldn't it be safer to use that hammer weight?

 

[Giannysmag]

Well Hades isn’t a Chief God (which is a fan grouping I think) since that refers to the ones who are the leaders of their pantheon but what exactly are you wondering about cuz I stg I thought I knew a few mins ago but am lost now lol

Chief Gods are a realt term in the series and Hades is one of them

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Chief Gods are a realt term in the series and Hades is one of them

Funny how there aren't any Egyptians there.

And it's surprising how there are no Japanese

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I'm thinking of buying the official volumes that came out in the future. It's tiring not only for me, but for my colleague, this thing of using raw and translating all the time because Arang Scans screwed everything up.

 

[Giannysmag]

Funny how there aren't any Egyptians there.

And it's surprising how there are no Japanese

Well to be fair it says "such as" so there probably are more chief gods from other pantheons

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Chief Gods are a realt term in the series and Hades is one of them

Well I stand corrected. Now I gotta ask how Hades is a Chief God? Or more specifically, what are the qualifications for such a classification? Cuz now it seems as if it isn’t simply the leader of a pantheon which 3/4 are unless Helheim counts as a pantheon of sorts?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Well I stand corrected. Now I gotta ask how Hades is a Chief God? Or more specifically, what are the qualifications for such a classification? Cuz now it seems as if it isn’t simply the leader of a pantheon which 3/4 are unless Helheim counts as a pantheon of sorts?

I remember the raws call them "supreme gods". So it must be strength, so 3/4 are pantheon leaders, since logistically a pantheon leader would be a god of extreme strength.

 

[PowerToScale]

It might vary between pantheons. We know for the Indian and Greek gods it about strength as The Greeks had the Titanomachy tournament to determine who is the strongest among if not amount all the gods which Zeus won and leads and the Indian gods Shiva and Rudra went around beating their gods. While with the Norse pantheon we know Thor is stated to be their strongest god but isn't a chief god himself (based on what we know).

I Don't doubt that strength is a factor but being the strongest doesn't definitely mean you are a chief god.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Has anyone translated Zeus' the fist transcends time yet? Because in Vietnamese translation from my country, it seems that his skill is stopping time rather than controlling all time like in the English version.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Has anyone translated Zeus' the fist transcends time yet? Because in Vietnamese translation from my country, it seems that his skill is stopping time rather than controlling all time like in the English version.

Yes, I already asked for the raw translation of this page, in addition to seeing the official translation for my country. There is no such thing as "stopping time".

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Well I stand corrected. Now I gotta ask how Hades is a Chief God? Or more specifically, what are the qualifications for such a classification? Cuz now it seems as if it isn’t simply the leader of a pantheon which 3/4 are unless Helheim counts as a pantheon of sorts?

I mean he does did rule over Helheim, so maybe that gave him some rep to be up there with the big gods.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Yes, I already asked for the raw translation of this page, in addition to seeing the official translation for my country. There is no such thing as "stopping time".

I see. Besides, since the punch is transcending time, does that mean it has to be completely infinite or immeasurable instead of possibly?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I see. Besides, since the punch is transcending time, does that mean it has to be completely infinite or immeasurable instead of possibly?

Immeasurable definitely not. Infinite? Perhaps?

But I don't even see how the name of the technique matters much. Zeus "named his will", is not the technique's original name, nor do we know if it had a name.

And since Zeus saw absolutely nothing when it was used on him, I doubt he knows the mechanism behind the technique.

And don't even mention Chronus, since he is no personification. He is the "time and space guardian".

 

[Rabbit2002]

Immeasurable definitely not. Infinite? Perhaps?

But I don't even see how the name of the technique matters much. Zeus "named his will", is not the technique's original name, nor do we know if it had a name.

And since Zeus saw absolutely nothing when it was used on him, I doubt he knows the mechanism behind the technique.

And don't even mention Chronus, since he is no personification. He is the "time and space guardian".

Well when it said he named the technique but when it started saying the name it was separated by another sentence so I think it hasn't mentioned the name yet

 

[Wdinatx]

This fits with how the historical Spartans had very little besides strength but this phrase makes them seem foolish. “It’s better to return on your shield than without it” comes from how the phalanx formation relies on soldiers defending each other. If you returned without your shield it’s either because you deserted or you failed and either way you’d probably gotten your comrades killed.

I think the phrase actually comes from a mother telling her son that she wanted him to come home carrying his shield or being carried by it. Better to live than to die but better to die than to be a coward who abandoned your brothers in arms.


It’s a neat touch how they followed Apollo and not Ares in this version, cause RoR is going with the Athenian version who’s a wimp. Not like Sparta had the artists and poets to pass down their stories like Athens so it’s a choice between historical accuracy and mythological accuracy… and I believe that this was the right one.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

This fits with how the historical Spartans had very little besides strength but this phrase makes them seem foolish. “It’s better to return on your shield than without it” comes from how the phalanx formation relies on soldiers defending each other. If you returned without your shield it’s either because you deserted or you failed and either way you’d probably gotten your comrades killed.

I think the phrase actually comes from a mother telling her son that she wanted him to come home carrying his shield or being carried by it. Better to live than to die but better to die than to be a coward who abandoned your brothers in arms.


It’s a neat touch how they followed Apollo and not Ares in this version, cause RoR is going with the Athenian version who’s a wimp. Not like Sparta had the artists and poets to pass down their stories like Athens so it’s a choice between historical accuracy and mythological accuracy… and I believe that this was the right one.

Wow, this does sound good. Much better than Beelzebub's backstory!

 

[Giannysmag]

Wow, this does sound good. Much better than Beelzebub's backstory!

Heresy

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Heresy

Faaaaaar from heresy. Like, I think it's one of, if not the worst chapter in RoR. Like god damn, they made Lucifer and those other 2 dipshits I forgot into these SoL friends with some of the worst designs in the manga, then they die before Beelzebub meets hot busty Lilith (was that her name???), and then she dies only to reveal the whole mcguffin "you were Satan the whole time!!!1!1!111!". Not to mention the pacing was all ass.

 

[Giannysmag]

Faaaaaar from heresy. Like, I think it's one of, if not the worst chapter in RoR. Like god damn, they made Lucifer and those other 2 dipshits I forgot into these SoL friends with some of the worst designs in the manga, then they die before Beelzebub meets hot busty Lilith (was that her name???), and then she dies only to reveal the whole mcguffin "you were Satan the whole time!!!1!1!111!". Not to mention the pacing was all ass.

Nah chapter was great and so was the part with Hades

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Nah chapter was great and so was the part with Hades

So what you're saying, is that hades makes it good

 

[Giannysmag]

So what you're saying, is that hades makes it good

No I'm saying both chapters were good. Hades makes the second one better but I really like the first one

 

[AnAverageUsername]

No I'm saying both chapters were good. Hades makes the second one better but I really like the first one

Fair

 

[Wdinatx]

Faaaaaar from heresy. Like, I think it's one of, if not the worst chapter in RoR. Like god damn, they made Lucifer and those other 2 dipshits I forgot into these SoL friends with some of the worst designs in the manga, then they die before Beelzebub meets hot busty Lilith (was that her name???), and then she dies only to reveal the whole mcguffin "you were Satan the whole time!!!1!1!111!". Not to mention the pacing was all ass.

Exaggeration but his backstory has even more wasted potential than Hades’. While Beelzebub’s is better and more fleshed out it was outright superfluous. The only things that carried into the fight were Lilith’s Seal, his desire to die, and his unique relationship with Hades. If they weren’t going to make Satan influence the fight like Hajun then there’s no point on having him be within Beal.

Let me put it like this: would the lesson of his backstory have been any different if Satan wasn’t Beelzebub and Lilith’s Seal prevented him from dying or figuring Satan? If they both found Satan but couldn’t hope to harm? If you ask me it’d be better than what we currently have because it’d open the path for a new competitor down the line and set up an arc where Beelzebub is inspired by Tesla instead of just awestruck.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Exaggeration but his backstory has even more wasted potential than Hades’. While Beelzebub’s is better and more fleshed out it was outright superfluous. The only things that carried into the fight were Lilith’s Seal, his desire to die, and his unique relationship with Hades. If they weren’t going to make Satan influence the fight like Hajun then there’s no point on having him be within Beal.

Let me put it like this: would the lesson of his backstory have been any different if Satan wasn’t Beelzebub and Lilith’s Seal prevented him from dying or figuring Satan? If they both found Satan but couldn’t hope to harm? If you ask me it’d be better than what we currently have because it’d open the path for a new competitor down the line and set up an arc where Beelzebub is inspired by Tesla instead of just awestruck.

Yeah, also this. It was disappointing for Satan to be brought up only for... nothing to happen? I get that the alternate form thing had already been done with Zerofuku to Hajun, but the set up for Beelz could have made it much better.

 

[Giannysmag]

Exaggeration but his backstory has even more wasted potential than Hades’. While Beelzebub’s is better and more fleshed out it was outright superfluous. The only things that carried into the fight were Lilith’s Seal, his desire to die, and his unique relationship with Hades. If they weren’t going to make Satan influence the fight like Hajun then there’s no point on having him be within Beal.

Let me put it like this: would the lesson of his backstory have been any different if Satan wasn’t Beelzebub and Lilith’s Seal prevented him from dying or figuring Satan? If they both found Satan but couldn’t hope to harm? If you ask me it’d be better than what we currently have because it’d open the path for a new competitor down the line and set up an arc where Beelzebub is inspired by Tesla instead of just awestruck.

I disagree on the Satan thing. Satan is something that only comes out when Beels love for someone reaches it's peak. It'd feel really weird and out of place for that to happen against Tesla in a death match. To me Satan always felt like something to explain Beels motives rather than something that would actually be used in the fight

 

[Wdinatx]

I disagree on the Satan thing. Satan is something that only comes out when Beels love for someone reaches its peak. It'd feel really weird and out of place for that to happen against Tesla in a death match. To me Satan always felt like something to explain Beels motives rather than something that would actually be used in the fight

Which is precisely why it didn’t matter that Satan was within Beelzebub. While I know it wouldn’t make much sense for him to appear in the fight it’s still a waste.

If Satan won’t ever come out again then I might just make it my headcanon that he can just teleport and/or control to Beelzebub and that the whole “I am you” thing was a lie. Why spend a chapter or two loading Chekhov’s Gun if you don’t fire it? Even a cheesy thing where Beelzebub consumes Satan’s power or something would be better (if foreshadowed like Hajun and Buddha/Zerofuku were) than it not mattering.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Really hope Leonidas vs Apollo steps things up. Maybe another Greek L, or perhaps Zeus won't be the remaining rep for his pantheon in the tournament (that's fighting).

 

[Wdinatx]

Really hope Leonidas vs Apollo steps things up. Maybe another Greek L, or perhaps Zeus won't be the remaining rep for his pantheon in the tournament (that's fighting).

Sorry but there’s no freaking way we’re not getting a Greek L. If Apollo somehow won then it’d mean Leonidas would lose.

Unless the fight is a draw at least.

 

[Giannysmag]

Unless the fight is a draw at least.

Imagine that happens an it's the only time a fght ends in draw, just so the Greeks never catch a W again

 

[Wdinatx]

Moving on though. If they added two more rounds to Ragnarok who do you think they’d introduce? It’d be one human and two gods (thanks to Buddha and Hades) so I’m curious.

TBH, I was meaning to ask this for a while but the earlier conversation about Satan reminded me. Anyways, um, my answer for the humans is Achilles. He’s the greatest warrior of Greece, been mentioned already, and the ambrosia could be a Chekhov’s Gun to make him not need a Volund. While Sigurd has already appeared my instincts are telling me he’d be more likely to join the god team than the human one. No clue why and I don’t have another idea which gods there‘d be.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Moving on though. If they added two more rounds to Ragnarok who do you think they’d introduce? It’d be one human and two gods (thanks to Buddha and Hades) so I’m curious.

TBH, I was meaning to ask this for a while but the earlier conversation about Satan reminded me. Anyways, um, my answer for the humans is Achilles. He’s the greatest warrior of Greece, been mentioned already, and the ambrosia could be a Chekhov’s Gun to make him not need a Volund. While Sigurd has already appeared my instincts are telling me he’d be more likely to join the god team than the human one. No clue why and I don’t have another idea which gods there‘d be.

Well a choice I'd have would actually be unexpected, as I'd like to see George Washington.

 

[PowerToScale]

Babe Ruth (The baseball player) was a one of the scrapped human combatants, maybe they'll bring him back for the extra rounds. Imagine a home run finisher.