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Real Life Big Animals CRT

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H3110l12345I20 said:
Only if it's accepted by calc group members. Though the source that's in Swedish can be put into Google Translate, then you'll see that the wolf fell from 4 m.

Otherwise, it's fine. Gray wolf is already at least 10-A in durability. Best case scenario it will be a durability upgrade, though due to wolves usually striking with their teeth, they would be just athletic human in AP without them.
Click to expand...
I see.

Feel free to ask a calc group member to evaluate the calc I did for you.
 
And what about the 10-A+ Ostrich and the 9-C+ American Black Bear that I mentioned?

Also, I think that I can help with these Gray Wolf ratings too, through in their profile also mentions that they can crush skulls and links a old calc of The Mountain..
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Dura upgrade to 9-C is probably fine since humans do have to hit precise locations to defeat a wolf.
Click to expand...

Shizuka said:
And what about the 10-A+ Ostrich and the 9-C+ American Black Bear that I mentioned?

Also, I think that I can help with these Gray Wolf ratings too, through in their profile also mentions that they can crush skulls and links a old calc of The Mountain..
Click to expand...
Shouldn't we redirect the blog to the one spino put out on the references for Common Feats Page?
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
Shouldn't we redirect the blog to the one spino put out on the references for Common Feats Page?
Click to expand...
Yeah.

Also I need a help with the skull of the Gray Wolf, since I don't find any source to scale the displacement like I did with the Snapping Turtle.
Basically, I need a image with the skull entire of Gray Wolf opening their teeth and with a rule to scale the displacement, since I don't find any sources of that or at least a picture too.. if anyone can help me with that will be better.. :3
 
Shizuka said:
Yeah.. I'm intelligent with physics and all, but I'm not that good in school and just that.. ):
Click to expand...
Intelligence is defined as the knowing & application of knowledge & skills. You can be an OG in quantum physics while not knowing common sense or how to do the dishes. We have blind spots in our knowledge.

We can always talk more about this in the conversations area or our message walls.
 
So far,
Shizuka said:
Yeah, I don't have any problems with the KE.

Through, I still disagree with full Street level Ostrich since they are easily mauled by Leopards.​
Click to expand...
(refering to the White-tailed Deer)
H3110l12345I20 said:
Only if it's accepted by calc group members. Though the source that's in Swedish can be put into Google Translate, then you'll see that the wolf fell from 4 m.

Otherwise, it's fine. Gray wolf is already at least 10-A in durability. Best case scenario it will be a durability upgrade, though due to wolves usually striking with their teeth, they would be just athletic human in AP without them.
Click to expand...
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Dura upgrade to 9-C is probably fine since humans do have to hit precise locations to defeat a wolf.
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
Spino, can you evaluate the following blog post please?

vsbattles.fandom.com

Gray Wolf GPE

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Also, what are the conclusions here so far?
Click to expand...
(Calc is good but needs to be evaluated (thanks for the calcing Apex_predator_GX))
Shizuka said:
It's fine, thanks H3, <3.
Click to expand...
We had a noice chit chat about Shizuka's intelligence
Shizuka said:
Yeah.

Also I need a help with the skull of the Gray Wolf, since I don't find any source to scale the displacement like I did with the Snapping Turtle.
Basically, I need a image with the skull entire of Gray Wolf opening their teeth and with a rule to scale the displacement, since I don't find any sources of that or at least a picture too.. if anyone can help me with that will be better.. :3
Click to expand...
Shizuka said:
Also, the justification of Emperor Penguin isn't that good..

Kinda, the AP justification is just their kinetic energy, and we can't scale the KE to their entire AP..
and they durability justification is:

  • Human level+ (Preyed upon by leopard seals and killer whales)

    I mean, how being preyed is a justification for Human level+ durability?, probably they are just Below Average Human level or with +, not sure through.
Click to expand...
Shizuka said:
I want to help too :3

I think that the British Bulldog 10-B justification is weird.. I don't think that killing or hospitalize a old woman is putting someone on that level.. so probably his real tier is just 10-C since the Bulldog isn't that strong.

And about the Olive Baboon, I think that the "possibly 10-A" is bad too. I mean, if the Wolf is 10-A, then I don't think that the Great Dane would've that strong, probably they are bigger than normal dogs and that, but isn't that much of 10-A. So probably the Baboon would've just 10-B since it takes like an entire pack to put down a Great Dane, but the Baboon can probably be stronger but there don't exist another justification for they tier.
Click to expand...
Shizuka said:
Okay, I have a problem with the Raccoon profile too.

First, I don't think that they can be Below Average Human+ only because they are typically stronger than Cats, yeah, they are strong but not that strong since the cats can also put a good fight agaisnt raccoons. Like, even Coyotes are in that tier but they can at least damage Humans and that, while Raccoon not. Also, the Raccoon aren't that big and they can easily get throwed by Coyotes, so I think that they can be something like just Below Average Human without the +. Also, the iguana was so small.

For their durability is better, but I'm going to look at the "At least Below Average Human level+, likely higher" justification.

​
I disagree with this. First, I don't think that throwing something like that is enough for "At least" or "likely higher" because that means that the Raccoon can survive things almost at the level as a Average Human, when the average human can survive even worse things like car crashes or etc. Second, the Raccoon probably damped the fall with the leafs, so the Raccoon didn't absorbed a big energy of the fall. Also, the chimps were just playing, they didn't throwed violently the Raccoon to the ground to give an +, like, if not we can give the same to the Domestic Cat, since they can also survive getting throwed by Horses and throwed or kicked by Humans.
​
​
I mean, this is just high ryse syndrome, and the Raccoons has a low terminal velocity like cats has explained here, so that's why they can survive these high falls. Cats also survived 5 storey-falls without problems, or even 32 storey-falls too.
Click to expand...
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Being hunted sometimes doesn't necessarily mean weaker strength due to predators having claws and sharp teeth.

That being said I agree with most of the above, I didn't really pay attention to the weaker animals when applying the revisions.
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
I think that the sandboxes look good to apply at least.
Click to expand...
(So are these sandboxes allowed to be applied?: Sperm Whale & Orca)
 
Also, what about this?
Shizuka said:
I don't know if the Street level of the Ostrich is that good, since they are overpowered and killed by three cheetahs, have encounters with one cheetah and the ostriches are easily destroyed by leopards, probably Athletic Human+ is better? idk. Also, we can't scale the Class 1 to they because that's is just a tackle (even that athletic human has a 900lb of force and we don't give Peak Human to Athletics only because the force when they run), I did a calc here about that.
Click to expand...
Shizuka said:
Cheetah aren't that strong hunters, the one that have too sharp claws and sharp teeth are the leopards, and only one of these literally demolishes the ostrich.

Yeah, it's hunt but the ostrich can't even at least defend of only one leopard.
Click to expand...

Shizuka said:
Through this is not about powerscaling, since the American Bears really overpowers and outweight Cougars in seconds.


Like, Leopards are also Street level because they easily kills juvenile gorillas, baboons and cheetahs, unless they justification are outdated. Through, considering the gap between Street level and Street level+ i'm not sure too, but the + is on the middle.
Click to expand...
 
For the grey wolf I'm skeptical of a jump being a combat-applicable attack, considering an average human jumping would be 9-C as well, but I'm fine with listing it as non-combat applicable in the justification. For durability they might have specific landing methods that enable them to land softly so I'm not very sure about that being equivalent to taking a punch from another animal.

Shizuka's proposed downgrades for weak animals look good to me.
 
Shizuka said:
Also, the justification of Emperor Penguin isn't that good..

Kinda, the AP justification is just their kinetic energy, and we can't scale the KE to their entire AP..
and they durability justification is:

  • Human level+ (Preyed upon by leopard seals and killer whales)

    I mean, how being preyed is a justification for Human level+ durability?, probably they are just Below Average Human level or with +, not sure through.
Click to expand...
I mean, at their size & weight, the best they can do is defend against other animals that would be considered 10-C in our system. The best thing they can do to a human is pierce the human's skin with it's beak & whack them with their flippers if we take some answers on quora as true.

It's likely that the Emperor Penguin (along with other IRL penguins on the wiki if there is any) will be downgraded to being 10-C physically.

The only wincons for the penguin against a bare-handed human are to bleed the human to death, cut something vital or do repeated blunt force damage to the human via it's flippers. The last one is unlikely due to the human's size.
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
I mean, at their size & weight, the best they can do is defend against other animals that would be considered 10-C in our system. The best thing they can do to a human is pierce the human's skin with it's beak & whack them with their flippers if we take some answers on quora as true.

It's likely that the Emperor Penguin (along with other IRL penguins on the wiki if there is any) will be downgraded to being 10-C physically.

The only wincons for the penguin against a bare-handed human are to bleed the human to death, cut something vital or do repeated blunt force damage to the human via it's flippers. The last one is unlikely due to the human's size.
Click to expand...
Fully agree.
 
Shizuka said:
Still not sure on Street level dura for Wolves, they get mauled by male cougars..

through, I calc the bite force of they gray wolf and I get Athletic level+.
Click to expand...
Not sure about the methodology, the force for the bite should be calculated using the surface area of the pointed impact part of the tooth or the molars where the pressure is greatest.
 
Shizuka said:
what you mean? I though we always calced the bite force like that..
Click to expand...
Nope, that's not how bite forces work, you can't cause the entire area of that mouth to be able to deliver the pressure effectively. You need a tiny surface area and massive amounts of pressure to achieve the piercing factor, which is how bullets precisely work.

You would need the pointed impact area of the wolf's canine, or the frontal surface area of its molars where the force would be applied best.
 
KLOL506 said:
Nope, that's not how bite forces work, you can't cause the entire area of that mouth to be able to deliver the pressure effectively. You need a tiny surface area and massive amounts of pressure to achieve the piercing factor, which is how bullets precisely work.

You would need the pointed impact area of the wolf's canine, or the frontal surface area of its molars where the force would be applied best.
Click to expand...
ah- you mean the pixel-scaling, right? I can fix that.
but the Force * Displacement is right, no?
 
Shizuka said:
ah- you mean the pixel-scaling, right? I can fix that.
Click to expand...
Not the pixel-scaling part that is the issue, the main issue is you measured the wrong part. It should be the tip of the teeth and the width and length of the molars that you need.

Shizuka said:
but the Force * Displacement is right, no?
Click to expand...
For the most part, aye, for the molars it'd be the height of the thing you're crushing, for the canines it's basically your canine length.
 
Shizuka said:
you mean something like this or this?
Click to expand...
Depends on the height of the food you're crushing honestly, but for canines it'd usually be used for tearing shit apart so for canines it'd be canine length. The above two scans really apply only to the molars.

As for the area where the pressure would be applied, it'd be very tiny, like say, the tip of the canine or the length + with of the molar (or the area of their pointed sections which will be very, very small).
 
KLOL506 said:
As for the area where the pressure would be applied, it'd be very tiny, like say, the tip of the canine or the length + with of the molar (or the area of their pointed sections which will be very, very small).
Click to expand...
what you mean with this? Isn't that like the first screenshot? through the wolves applies the force with their molars too.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
I don't think we use bite force as AP justifications anymore, we list it as a separate "piercing damage", because bites are mostly powerful from the low surface area and aren't that impressive in our system which disregards that.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately given the whole Force = Pressure x Area and the Work = Displacement x Force thingy, they'd wield dogshit values now because the surface area where the pressure is being applied is so ******* low and so is the displacement. So we're dumping bite forces because of that now.
 
I think we should set some standards on what's usable for the AP and durability of real life profiles. Maybe a note on official pages and verse pages looking something like this (just a rough draft). Might be a little bit too vague, but this is the approximate idea.

Due to the fact that our Tier List systems are an oversimplification of real life physics, not all calculations for Real World profiles should be used for their ratings.

Attack Potency: The Attack Potency of a Real World animal should be the work done in a single typical physical attack of the animal, such as a paw swipe or a headbutt. The type of attack used should be decided on a case-by-case basis depending on the characteristics of the animal. The kinetic energy of an animal should be listed separately if it is not a common form of attack. Piercing damage such as bites and scratches are also listed separately from the animal's Attack Potency as their potency comes from their small surface area, which our Tier List system does not consider.

Durability: The Durability of a Real World animal should be the Attack Potency of an attack they can withstand over the area of a typical attack of the species. For most animals, the Durability should be listed as equal to their typical physical attack, unless they are Glass Cannons or Stone Walls. Calculations of the force they withstood over a surface area far greater than the area of a typical attack such as surviving high falls or running at full speed should not be used as area is not taken into consideration in our Durability system.
 
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