[Re:Zero] Regulus Corneas Revamp

[Zabazab]

A touch-up of Regulus' page in honour of him being brutally murdered in the anime, and also an addition to all Authority-users pages. Credit to Qliphoth for help with volume 19 translations.

Regulus Corneas

Here is Regulus' Current Page.

Here is My Sandbox.


I've used tabbers to separate his Authority of Greed, his natural abilities, and his resistances. I expect most of these changes or additions to be uncontroversial, with one exception: Acausality. Regulus once had Acausality Type 4 (added by this CRT), and later it was removed (by this CRT). Having spent more time looking into Regulus and his Lion's Heart, I do believe acausality is a fitting description of his power– be it Type 4 or even a toggled Type 5– here's the justification:

With his time stopped, Regulus is unable to experience change. Lion's Heart makes Regulus immune to effects from all physical phenomena, granting him the ultimate liberation from all concepts. This actually extends beyond the physical, as Shamak which manipulates the senses doesn't work on him, and Regulus was unaffected while interacting with Sirius, whose Authority manipulates the soul itself and activates by merely knowing she exists. Regulus, if he so chooses, can ignore all of the world's laws, making those who are bound by concepts no match for him. Among the world's rules is cause and effect, and the laws of fate.

It's stated that with Regulus' Authority, should he choose to do so, he can become liberated from all laws of the world and all concepts, granting him the ultimate power. It's important to note that he doesn't always ignore every possible law and concept, as that would make day-to-day activities troublesome. Regulus displays how he "toggles" what affects him when he stops being knocked back by Reinhard's attacks, though he is still in a permanent state of invincibility where nothing can harm him.

Just as he said, he was swinging the Dragon Sword, sheath and all. A storm of blows fell upon Regulus. Heavy impacts rang out in quick succession, and the scene that unfolded almost looked like a young kid playing with a doll, a strange continuation of the childish water splashing from before.

But just as Regulus's splashes were actually the destructive manifestations of raw violence, Reinhard's swordplay revealed an inhuman level of martial prowess— each and every blow would have been strong enough to end a fight against any other opponent. The scene beggared belief and defied description.

And on top of that, something had changed in a way that was terribly ominous—

"He's stopped getting knocked back when he gets hit."

Even as Subaru watched, Regulus took a hit to his temple, but his face didn't whip to the side as expected. He simply brushed his hand at it as if shooing away a bug. Reinhard's blows were landing, but Regulus had stopped experiencing any sort of impact. —Re:Zero Volume 19, Chapter 1, Section 3

The fact that Regulus' Lion's Heart functions by stopping time is also interesting due to the fact that it's a completely different take on the power compared to two other examples in the series:

1. Satella's time-stop functions in a more classic sense, being essentially identical to something like JoJo's timestop (The World, Star Platinum), where everything is frozen bar the user, allowing the user to attack helpless targets.
2. Beatrice's time-stop takes the form of projectiles that stop the time of whatever they hit, which is a kind of instant-death magic, seemingly transmuting whatever is frozen in time into brittle crystal.

So it's established that Regulus can ignore every concept and law in the world, and we know from Witch's Evaluation Meeting that Minerva's Authority of Wrath– which heals people by twisting cause and effect– is a power that forcibly twists the world's rules, therefore cause and effect are a law of the world which Regulus can ignore.

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible.

Note that being utterly and totally immutable is something that, strictly speaking, is only guaranteed for characters with a Tier 0 rating, while lesser characters can only have likewise lesser forms of the ability by their own nature. They may, however, have a particularly potent form of immutability bestowed upon them by a Tier 0.

However, I acknowledge that this isn't the most direct statement of all time; it's not as though volume 19 verbatim states Regulus is unbound by cause and effect, this is a matter of looking at what has been described as the world's rules in order to determine what Lion's Heart's capabilities are. Even if Acausality Type 5 were to be rejected, I still believe that this is solidly enough evidence to net Acausality Type 4 at least. As noted on the acausality page:

Note: Being completely independent of space, time, laws, or similar forces does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.

In essence, complete independence of space, or time, or laws, or similar forces, is evidence for Acausality Type 4— and Regulus has several of those statements: He is a distortion in space, his ability functions via temporal stasis, and he is stated to be unbound by any laws and concepts (twice).


Authorities Addition

Law Manipulation should be added to all Authority-users pages:

• Law Manipulation (Authorities are powers that twist[3] the laws[3] of reality[3])

That's about it this time. I would appreciate critiques of the sandbox's indexing since I'm sure some people will have better ideas than I on how to index some things (such as his capability to return from space or below ground being pseudo-flight, which I'm unsure of). Thanks.

Acausality Votes
Agree: @Phoenks (here), @Bobsican (here), @VortechsTG (here), @Dalesean027 (here), @SatellaTheWoE (here), @FinePoint (Selective Type 4, here), @Trxyway (here)
Neutral:
Disagree: @Sonoftanavast9 (here), @Theglassman12 (here), @FinePoint (Type 5, here), @Vietthai96 (here)

 

[Phoenks]

I disagree with the tabber choice of separating the authority from the other stuff. Seems pointless to me and just makes it worse imo.

I agree with Acausality being more like Type 5.

• He is separated from the normal flow of causality.
• He is shown to be unable to be affected by change. Granting invulnerability.

Whatever about that though. Staff can decide.

 

[Zabazab]

If people agree the tabbers suck I'll change it to just Abilities/Resistances. Like THIS POST if you think the tabbers are UGLY.

 

[Bobsican]

At this point why not just make a verse-specific P&A page on Authorities? They seem to potentially qualify for a page to ease indexing and readability at this point.

Anyways, I agree on type 5 acausality given the proof and the constant talks I had around this topic as well as acausality in general.

 

[Zabazab]

At this point why not just make a verse-specific P&A page on Authorities? They seem to potentially qualify for a page to ease indexing and readability at this point.

There's like 4 major magic systems interacting with eachother in Re:Zero (Magic, Flow Method, Divine Protections, Authorities) so maybe a verse-specific P&A page(s) for them could be good. Every character can use at least 1, most use multiple.

 

[VortechsTG]

I agree with type 5 because being completely unable to be changed or affected by anything is the whole point of his power. There are contradictions, but they are explicitly explained in the series as a result of him choosing to let those things affect him.

 

[Dalesean027]

I don't really care either way for the appearance of separating his authority from the rest of his abilities, I mean it can all be done under the same scrollbox without tabbing it and still having them separated but that aside these proposals seem fine

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

I completely disagree, the main reasoning brought up here are not different from everything already discussed in the downgrade thread prior but I will save that for the end of this post as for now I need to get at the more pressing issues pertain to the simple fact that the main new scan on this thread is predicated on mixing and matching completely different translations to stitch together a desirable whole.

Let me explain further, take the summary given for Regulus's new acausality status

With his time stopped, Regulus is unable to experience change. Lion's Heart makes Regulus immune to effects from all physical phenomena, granting him the ultimate liberation from all concepts. This actually extends beyond the physical, as Shamak which manipulates the senses doesn't work on him, and Regulus was unaffected while interacting with Sirius, whose Authority manipulates the soul itself and activates by merely knowing she exists. Regulus, if he so chooses, can ignore all of the world's laws, making those who are bound by concepts no match for him. Among the world's rules is cause and effect, and the laws of fate.

The first scan "With his time stopped, Regulus is unable to experience change." comes from the Official volume Release [Which can be found here on pages 156-157, for convenience] - To confirm that this site is indeed the official translation you can just click on the sample of the Prologue offered on the Amazon page for the book which matches that of the site i linked. [This point was already repeatedly mentioned by me in the downgrade repeatedly - Here, Here, Here etc.]

While the Second scan "Lion's Heart makes Regulus immune to effects from all physical phenomena, granting him the ultimate liberation from all concepts." is completely different in the Official Volume, as it does not mention concepts in the same context at all there in any capacity:

I'll Post the images themselves directly for extreme clarity because I noticed that some people just don't actually feel it necessary to click links most of the time and seem to just take whatever OP wrote over the link at face value.

Here is OP's version of the scan

Here is what it looks like in the Official Volume Release [Page 192 - 193 of the link here - Sorry for the split, the paragraph was on the end of a page so it bled into the next page]

In this case the translation change that is most relevant is the glaring addition of talking about concepts in general more so as a way to describ things that would hold him back.

The Third Scan, "can ignore all of the world's laws, making those who are bound by concepts no match for him." is also completely different from the actual official volume:

Once again I'll post the images directly again for the same reason as last time

OP's version of the scan

The Official Volume Release [Page 278-279 of the link here]

As you can see, the difference is again stark and just as subtle, the translation is basically using a word in a way that it wasn't before it now changed the context under which the word "Concept" was used. In OP's version it reads as Regulus talking about being bound by concepts in general while the official can be more clearly taken as not actually relating to concepts as are relevant for the Wiki which is exactly what was argued in the downgrade thread

I have absolutely no clue where OP pulled these scans from in the first place but I can atleast state the following

1. The use of these "new scans" is clearly an attempt to bypass addressing any arguments related to the fact that in the prior downgrade thread the Officially Translated scans was used [Here]
2. OP is more than likely intentionally replacing the Official Translations to strengthen their argument somewhat and they clearly knew about the Official Translations prior to doing this [The proof of this being that they themselves took part in the downgrade thread which contained the official scans]
3. OP clearly intentionally mixing & matching completely different translations to weave a desired argument from the sum of their parts [Proof being that they used a mix of both the official and this unsourced translation rather than using one source or even telling anyone in the threads Original Post that this was done]
4. The Official Translation obviously takes precedence over an unofficial, randomly sourced translation that might as well be made up
5. If these Unofficial Translations are more accurate than the official that would require the OP to provide details on exactly where they sourced them from alongside the full raw translation for each of the scans so that a translation helper to verify it
6. If these Unoffical Translations are actually more accurate then the entire Re:Zero Verse on the wiki might as well be taken down temporarily to have supporters recreate the profiles using verified scans from the new translation (each raw verified by translations helpers) so that the supposedly incorrect Official Translation which all the profiles are built upon currently can be phased out.

Now moving on from the translation issue I'll get to the actual arguments presented while just linking to the downgrade thread where certain repeated arguments are made (Ignoring any scans which come from the undisclosed translation)

With his time stopped, Regulus is unable to experience change.

[This point was already repeatedly mentioned by me in the downgrade repeatedly - Here, Here, Here etc.]. It's nothing new so it shouldn't be relevant but even besides that:

Being unable to experience change is a result of him being stopped in time, literally everything stopped in time in such a way that it is rendered invulnerable does not experience change... That isn't a factor in granting Acausality at all because it's just a normal function of being stopped in time. Regulus himself clearly explains that the fact he experiences "No Change" is just a factor of how the time stop works

“If time has stopped for an object, then that means it doesn’t change. No change means no getting injured, and it also means no getting wet, either.

There is a variance in how Timestop powers are portrayed in general in fiction, being that there are verses in which a Timestop ability makes it so the objects affected can be influenced [Such as Sho Kusakabe from Fire Force] and others where they cannot [Such as Ziel from the Willverse and Glaistig Uaine from Parahumans].

To put it simply not only is it already standard for certain time stop powers to make objects not experience change but regulus himself points out that the reason he doesn't experience change is simply a product of being timestopped rather than something to do with being outside or unaffected by causality as a whole.

Hell all it takes is just reading the whole scan and it becomes clear that the single part about "no change" is just him explaining what would naturally occur when you are made Invulnerability as a result of time stop

Lion's Heart makes Regulus immune to effects from all physical phenomena, granting him the ultimate liberation from all concepts.

The actual official scan of this doesn't have anything to do with concepts in that general way and it was addressed in the downgrade thread already.

can ignore all of the world's laws, making those who are bound by concepts no match for him.

The actual scan is different and this was already addressed in the downgrade thread [Here specifically for the concept bit & in the main Original Post for the law bit]

It's stated that with Regulus' Authority, should he choose to do so, he can become liberated from all laws of the world and all concepts, granting him the ultimate power. It's important to note that he doesn't always ignore every possible law and concept, as that would make day-to-day activities troublesome. Regulus displays how he "toggles" what affects him when he stops being knocked back by Reinhard's attacks, though he is still in a permanent state of invincibility where nothing can harm him.

This isn't particularly relevant for acausality Type 4 or 5 and I was even the one that brought it up in the first thread [Here]

The fact that Regulus' Lion's Heart functions by stopping time is also interesting due to the fact that it's a completely different take on the power compared to two other examples in the series:

1. Satella's time-stop functions in a more classic sense, being essentially identical to something like JoJo's timestop (The World, Star Platinum), where everything is frozen bar the user, allowing the user to attack helpless targets.
2. Beatrice's time-stop takes the form of projectiles that stop the time of whatever they hit, which is a kind of instant-death magic, seemingly transmuting whatever is frozen in time into brittle crystal.

This is again, not relevant to acausality Type 4 or 5 - Different forms of Timestop can vary from verse to verse and even within the same verse depending on the mechanics (I brought up Ziel as an example of a character using Timestop that makes things invulnerable, in his same verse there are characters that use timestops without these effects not of which is relevant to the discussion)

This topic in of itself already came up in the last downgrade thread and I had input on that too

Beatrice's timestop 'Minya' is a curse that has more than one effect acting alongside it which is responsible for it killing targets because it manifests as the same purple crystal that reduces the force of their existence then eventually shatters alongside them to kill (The time stop itself has built in properties that kill the target) but even ignoring that if the fact that it killed the target alone is you're proof of something it won't matter because Regulus' own timestop stops his heart and would kill him ordinarily if he used it for more than a few seconds at a time if not for the fact that he spreads his heart across his wives.

There's variation in how Timestop is portrayed across various series when it comes to how characters are able to interact with stuff affected by. Clock stopper from Parahumans makes objects invulnerable to harm by stopping their time but that doesn't make his timestop Acausality or make the objects locked in timestop acausal. Usually the rules under which things timestopped operate depend on the series but non of that difference matters at all because the wiki doesn't have a rule that automatically treats uninteractable forms of time stop as acausal

So it's established that Regulus can ignore every concept and law in the world, and we know from Witch's Evaluation Meeting that Minerva's Authority of Wrath– which heals people by twisting cause and effect– is a power that forcibly twists the world's rules, therefore cause and effect are a law of the world which Regulus can ignore.

The concept part is bunk as the first scan is an unofficial translation of unknown origin where as the official has no mention of concepts in such a general manner (still listing just physical phenomena) while the second scan mentioning concepts if read in basic English is not using the word as it would be applicable to concepts relevant to wiki standards [As said in the downgrade thread here].

It's already been discussed in the downgrade threads that the only "Rules"/"Laws" relevant to Regulus's abilities are those of physical laws seeing as how they are the only ones he mentions when going into any degree of detail about the specifics and the assumption that he ignores either the laws of causality or fate are nothing but baseless assumptions made on overblowing vague statements which only describe physical laws.

Including how in the downgrade thread itself I pointed out that when his authority was turned off it expressely stated that the laws of physics were restored [Here]

Five seconds had passed. Sirens began to blare, as Regulus found himself confused over his judgment. Stopping his heart within his own body for more than five seconds wasn’t feasible. The number of seconds that he could hold it at maximum, was perhaps less than ten. And even if he could extend it, that was just more distance he dug.

But here, what would happen if he dispelled his ability while drilling into the ground?

—There was no time to debate. Heart stopping or brain dying or whatever, stupidity should have a limit.

Regulus: “Uuuuuuuu—!”

Gritting his teeth in preparation for the shock that was about to meet him, Regulus strengthened his resolve.

Hearing the sound of his heart which demanded to resume its beat, Regulus lifted the effect of [Lion’s Heart], let go of his invincibility, and the laws of physics were restored—

Regulus: “Bu, ue—!”

Furthermore, as mentioned in the downgrade thread he blatantly doesn't ignore either fate or causality:

The most glaring and obvious point against the notion of Regulus having Acausality Type 4 is the simple fact that he literally has direct showing of not having any of the inherent resistance that Acausality Type 4 would grant

• He's blatantly not immune to causality manipulation in any way as it is literally on Pandora's profile that she uses causality manipulation on him with 0 issues and specifically explains it all being a natural result of his actions vanishing
• He's blatantly not immune to precognition in any way as it is literally on Regulus' own profile in the standard equipment section that he carries around a book which vaguely tells his own future

The only way to reconcile these clear contradictions to the notion of him having Acausality is to posit that both Pandora's causality manipulation and the Book's Precognition are themselves able to affect irregular systems of causality simply by virtue of them affecting regulus despite neither her/nor anyone else bringing any attention to Regulus' unique state of existence as being something that would otherwise prevent any other causality manipulation/precog from working on him and the fact that Pandora's ability in particular is stated to basically have been the result of her changing the world and the world affirming her word so she's affecting him by altering the causality of the world which obviously wouldn't work if his supposed Acausality put him in a state of irregular causality separate from that of the worlds conventional system of causality.

Basically he's directly shown affected by both Precog & causality manipulation [Specifically Causality Manipulation that operates on altering the world itself which wouldn't work if he was either unbound by the conventional causality system of the world (Relevant for Acausality type 4) or causality systems as a whole (Relevant for Acausality Type 5)]

To get a few repeat arguments out of the way early for Pandora

1)Pandora should not be used here as evidence whatsoever. Her authority is incredibly vague and even treating it as Causality Manipulation is a pretty iffy thing to do. Moreover, Pandora being able to affect Regulus at all with her ability would just mean she can affect irregulars. Regulus has demonstrated to not experience change on essentially every other occasion, and as Zab said, reversing the effects of Regulus is not the equivalent of reversing Regulus himself.

-Doesn't sound vague to me considering the specific application of the authority which affected regulus as listed on the profile is explicitly causality manipulation

"It's a simple matter. If the Archbishop Corneas was never here, it follows that all the results of Archbishop Corneas's actions would also vanish."

This is undeniably Causality Manipulation - Now whether or not you think in a broader sense her Authority utilizes some other ability from which the causality manipulation is derived it doesn't really matter since the specific application of said Authority which affected regulus pretty explicitly is the causality manipulation.

Causality Manipulation can be achieved either as it's own ability or as a derivative of other abilities like Law Manipulation, Concept manipulation, reality warping, information manipulation etc but when it comes to Acausality often distinctions of what specific ability the causality manipulation is derived from is irrelevant as the Acausal being would still be considered immunized to such causal interactions either way. If this weren't the case every Acausal being would be treated as only immune to causal based abilities [Causality Manip/Fate Manip/Precog] in the specific context of whatever other ability it is derived from in their own verse.

I already outlined in the OP that the presumption of her just being specially able to affect irregular causality is completely unviable

2)Just to clarify,an ability being listed under something doesn't necessarily mean it IS that ability.
For eg, Reinhard's blessing can be either law hax, probability hax or fate hax. We dont know for sure so we indexed it as probability but later on if enough information comes we could change it to fate hax. Call it a temporary fix. In Pandora's case her ability can just be 4D reality warp but currently we dont know where to put it so its just under causality manipulation because we dont hafe anywhere else to put it
Using that is hardly an arguement

-That's not relevant to pandora, the specific application of her ability she used on Regulus is clearly and undeniably causality manipulation. Reinhards blessing or arrow avoidance is vague on the explicit details of the mechanics which is why there's some wiggle room regarding what it is indexed as but the specific application of Pandora's Authority which she used on Regulus has it's mechanics explained clearly without the same level of vagueness as Reinhard's blessing and it is undeniably causality manipulation.

We can exam the blessing compared to the relevant application of Pandora's authority here, as it simply states:

Blessing of Arrow Avoidance: Projectiles or long-distance attacks cannot hit him.

while the anime depiction shows the projectile simply swerving away from him

These two pieces of information are, to my knowledge, the only thing we have as to what the blessing does because there's no explanation of it's mechanics which is remarkably different from what pandora did because she clearly explains the mechanics behind what she did to regulus:

"It's a simple matter. If the Archbishop Corneas was never here, it follows that all the results of Archbishop Corneas's actions would also vanish."

The only way to compare these two situations would be if Pandora simply never said this and all we had to go off judging the effect she induced on regulus was the anime scene where it all happened, then there would be a degree of vagueness enough for a different interpretation but clearly that's not what happened.

She's specifically erasing his actions [A Cause] to remove the results of said actions [The Effects of that Cause] which is clearly causality manipulation - As I already pointed out whether you believe that at a fundamental level her Authority itself is something else it doesn't matter in the slightest because the application of that separate ability relevant to this discussion is undeniably causality manipulation.


3)Also I don't think the gospel should be used as an argument anymore, Echidna's book which (if i'm not wrong) is just a more clear version of the gospel was able to see the original events that occurred in the Elior Forrest even thou Pandora has altered them by removing Regulus.

Pandora's causality manipulation doesn't inherently delete memories unless she specifically wants to use it for that, most causality manipulation in fiction doesn't delete memories of the past events nor record or knowledge of it - Look at Misogi Kumagawa he can delete things from causality such that they never existed on a literal universal scale but everyone can still remember (We don't assume these people have acausality type 4 for that reason nor do we assume they memories/senses that can for some reason bypass acausality type 4 for this reason)

and for the Gospel

1)"as for the Gospel, it's Content is extremely vague and can be interpreted in many different ways, and we don't necessarily know that it can tell Regulus's Future since it didn't actually serve in his best interest, he wouldn't have followed it if he knew about he's own death."

- Whether it's vague, specifically attempting to lead the holder towards a specific future or any of the futures it shows is heavily subjects to change is irrelevant to the point which is that if Regulus had Type 4 Acausality the book would be blank in relation to him full stop.

The statement of him not following it, is in relation to all Archbishops including him which speaks more to their level of obedience/loyalty rather than whether the book contains their futures or not.


2)"it contain commands that even he is willing to ignore if he didn't like it, how is that Precognition.
the book it self is not well explained to be used as an argument here.
we don't know where does it come from or what type of content is inside of it."


-The question asked was that would the bishops in general ignore it if it told them to kill themselves and it was said that they wouldn't which is obviously speaking on their level of obedience to the book not whether the book itself has precognition. The statement is talking about the archbishops in general which would include those like Petelguese who whole heartly believes it has precog yet he won't kill himself if it told him to which obvious again, speaks to his level of obedience rather than whether the book itself has precog.

If it did or didn't have precognition one way or another he likely still wouldn't kill himself if it told him to kill himself so it obviously has nothing to do with whether the book has precog


3)The Gospel's are only telling of very few events that are likely happen in the future, but are subject to change. It is actually more equivalent to analytical prediction, not precognition, because they simply predict the future, they don't tell it outright.

-That's not analytical prediction, analytical prediction would be indicated if these predicted events were the result of some analysis of information in the present or past. Whether or not the future is deterministic or probabilistic[Indeterministic] is irrelevant to the point and does not indicate the book is using analytical prediction

All in all I still completely disagree with regulus having any form of acausality

 

[Trxyway]

I have absolutely no clue where OP pulled these scans from in the first place

He just translated them, it's the Raws from the Official Light Novel, One ,Two (Edit, hope the links work, tried seperating them but imgur is tripping. If it doesn't work this time, i give up)

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

He just translated them, it's the Raws from the Official Light Novel, One ,Two (Edit, hope the links work, tried seperating them but imgur is tripping. If it doesn't work this time, i give up)

Then if they are like I said then the OG translations need to be phased out -

1. If these Unofficial Translations are more accurate than the official that would require the OP to provide details on exactly where they sourced them from alongside the full raw translation for each of the scans so that a translation helper to verify it
2. If these Unoffical Translations are actually more accurate then the entire Re:Zero Verse on the wiki might as well be taken down temporarily to have supporters recreate the profiles using verified scans from the new translation (each raw verified by translations helpers) so that the supposedly incorrect Official Translation which all the profiles are built upon currently can be phased out.

But also even the translations used in this very thread are from the Official which would then be incorrect and need to be replaced with the new ones

 

[Trxyway]

Then if they are like I said then the OG translations need to be phased out -

1. If these Unofficial Translations are more accurate than the official that would require the OP to provide details on exactly where they sourced them from alongside the full raw translation for each of the scans so that a translation helper to verify it
2. If these Unoffical Translations are actually more accurate then the entire Re:Zero Verse on the wiki might as well be taken down temporarily to have supporters recreate the profiles using verified scans from the new translation (each raw verified by translations helpers) so that the supposedly incorrect Official Translation which all the profiles are built upon currently can be phased out.

But also even the translations used in this very thread are from the Official which would then be incorrect and need to be replaced with the new ones

Hey, I’m not too familiar with how these things work (i'm new), so I just wanted to ask for some clarification.

Yen Press translates the official Light Novel, but obviously, no translation is perfect, and that’s the case for a lot of series. For manga and light novels, people often cross check with the original Japanese raws to verify accuracy. So, is it not allowed to translate from the raws for clarification? If someone has concerns about a potential mistranslation, aren’t they free to check the raws themselves?

For example, would something like the Naruto Verse Wiki only be allowed to use the official English translation and ignore any possible mistranslations, even if the raws show otherwise? If a mistake is found in the official translation, wouldn't it make sense to correct it using the more accurate translation from the original Japanese?

Also, I’m curious, if only one translation is allowed, does that mean using the Japanese raws for corrections means you can’t reference the English translations at all? Because last time Re:Zero faced a downgrade (some of which were justified), it was based on the official Japanese raws. So why is it that raws can be used for downgrades, but not for upgrades? I just want to understand how this process works.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Hey, I’m not too familiar with how these things work (i'm new), so I just wanted to ask for some clarification.

Yen Press translates the official Light Novel, but obviously, no translation is perfect, and that’s the case for a lot of series. For manga and light novels, people often cross check with the original Japanese raws to verify accuracy. So, is it not allowed to translate from the raws for clarification? If someone has concerns about a potential mistranslation, aren’t they free to check the raws themselves?

For example, would something like the Naruto Verse Wiki only be allowed to use the official English translation and ignore any possible mistranslations, even if the raws show otherwise? If a mistake is found in the official translation, wouldn't it make sense to correct it using the more accurate translation from the original Japanese?

Also, I’m curious, if only one translation is allowed, does that mean using the Japanese raws for corrections means you can’t reference the English translations at all? Because last time Re:Zero faced a downgrade (some of which were justified), it was based on the official Japanese raws. So why is it that raws can be used for downgrades, but not for upgrades? I just want to understand how this process works.

It's not that it can't be used for downgrades or upgrades but it depends on the level to which the translation is wrong, if it's all just completely wrong and makes the context of a lot of whats relevant to the discussions wrong then it might as well not be used in its entirety.

I was under the impression that he's using a completely different entire translation set which would be more accurate not that he took specific parts and translated them somewhere else though where the Raws were translated, if here on the wiki itself with the translation helpers should be shown/linked on the thread itself rather than just being sprinkled in randomly with no explanation.

Though for the most part context for the new translated scans doesn't shift really anything enough for them to not be faced by the exact same criticism as last time, mainly how the use of "Concepts" isn't taken to be extremely direct for wiki purposes & the Laws/Rules in which he ignores are just physical laws (aka physics)

In both the Official and new translation he is primarily talking about physical laws. In the first he expressly explains the mention of anything related to concepts as just another way to say ignoring "Physical phenomena" and in the next when he goes into any sort of detail about which such "Concepts/Laws" he ignores they are still all physical laws add to that the fact that when he turned off his authority it expressly mentions that physics is what is returning and it's clear that non of it has anything to do with a vague notion of laws or concepts in general (that would be overarching enough to apply the laws of causality & fate).

Then there's the fact that every single reason from before is still the same, such as the clear showings of him being affected by both Fate and Causality with 0 resistance to either which would be necessary for his supposed "Acausality Type 4" to even grant any resistances because standards changed such taht you need actual feats of resisting them due to acausality for it to be applicable to you.

This has the potential to grant them resistances to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others, depending on its shown capabilities which should be specified on the given page.

He doesn't have any shown capabilities for resisting any of these things, infact he has only anti-feats instead

 

[Zabazab]

I have absolutely no clue where OP pulled these scans from in the first place but I can atleast state the following

Just woke up, will other address points, later, I linked the new volume 19 translations as the literal first thing in my post. I asked translation helpers here. If I could, I'd prefer to have all of volume 19 translated by anyone other than Yenpress' official translation, since they are poor enough that an entire fan-created document of erroneous mistakes and necessary corrections are needed for readers of the official translation.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Just woke up, will other address points, later, I linked the new volume 19 translations as the literal first thing in my post. I asked translation helpers here. If I could, I'd prefer to have all of volume 19 translated by anyone other than Yenpress' official translation, since they are poor enough that an entire fan-created document of erroneous mistakes and necessary corrections are needed for readers of the official translation.

If yenpress is completely just wrong to such a degree that it's all just completely filled with erroneous mistakes which require a bunch of necessary corrections then again my point of having to replace the whole thing still stands because it's what most Rezero profiles on here are built on.

It's not that it can't be used for downgrades or upgrades but it depends on the level to which the translation is wrong, if it's all just completely wrong and makes the context of a lot of whats relevant to the discussions wrong then it might as well not be used in its entirety.

1. If these Unoffical Translations are actually more accurate then the entire Re:Zero Verse on the wiki might as well be taken down temporarily to have supporters recreate the profiles using verified scans from the new translation (each raw verified by translations helpers) so that the supposedly incorrect Official Translation which all the profiles are built upon currently can be phased out.

But also if it's as bad as the fan doc says then why even use any of it in this very thread, why mix it in with the new translations instead of just translating all the scans you intended to use? How trustworthy are the scans from Yenpress that you used in this thread if it's all just filled with egregious mistakes & issues

 

[Zabazab]

Snip

A lot of these points seems to be based questioning of the scans themselves in regard to their legitimacy or quality, which is addressed in the OP and in my last comment, so I don't feel a need to comment on it. If there's anything specific you want a response to, just say.

It's already been discussed in the downgrade threads that the only "Rules"/"Laws" relevant to Regulus's abilities are those of physical laws seeing as how they are the only ones he mentions when going into any degree of detail about the specifics and the assumption that he ignores either the laws of causality or fate are nothing but baseless assumptions made on overblowing vague statements which only describe physical laws.

Including how in the downgrade thread itself I pointed out that when his authority was turned off it expressely stated that the laws of physics were restored

Yet it's clearly not just physical laws, or just laws of physics, it's "The laws of the world." His power is not at all restricted to merely physical phenomena, as blatantly non-physical phenomena does not affect him. A passive Authority– which in itself is an ability that twists the laws of reality– with the power to manipulate souls fails to do anything to Regulus. Even if you ignored every physical law, every physical phenomenon, there's no way that would be possible. Its unchangeability beyond just the physical.

Paraphrasing: "With Lion's Heart, Regulus could ignore all of the rules/laws of the world, making those who are bound by concepts no match for him." is not a particularly vague statement, it's saying that at his absolute maximum he can ignore every law or concept. If what was meant was "just the laws of physics" in that quote, why would "rules of the world" (a term that was also used in regards to Minerva's Authority in Witch's Evaluation Meeting) be used instead of just "laws of physics", which is even brought up later? Mentioning the laws of physics being restored the moment deactivated Lion's Heart in his death scene is not meaningful either, as I've clarified that what Regulus ignores is selective, and without Little King it becomes harder to control, he very well could have been ignoring just a few laws of physics in that scene. It's not as though saying that Regulus was interfering with the laws of physics somehow makes earlier mentions of him ignoring all the rules/concepts of the world suddenly restricted to just physics.

Basically he's directly shown affected by both Precog & causality manipulation [Specifically Causality Manipulation that operates on altering the world itself which wouldn't work if he was either unbound by the conventional causality system of the world (Relevant for Acausality type 4) or causality systems as a whole (Relevant for Acausality Type 5)]

For both of these, it can be explained by this part of my post:

It's stated that with Regulus' Authority, should he choose to do so, he can become liberated from all laws of the world and all concepts, granting him the ultimate power. It's important to note that he doesn't always ignore every possible law and concept, as that would make day-to-day activities troublesome. Regulus displays how he "toggles" what affects him when he stops being knocked back by Reinhard's attacks, though he is still in a permanent state of invincibility where nothing can harm him.

Regulus would obviously want the Gospel to work on him, it's extremely helpful. It's the main reason most people join the cult, as it's a guide to your desired future. He doesn't have his Authority set to absolute immutability as its default, it's something he toggles.

This would also explain Pandora's Authority sending him home– his instinct was to argue with Pandora rather than fight her on whether he'd leave. Though, it could also just be that her Authority is superior to Regulus'. It's also possible that Pandora's Authority isn't even causality manipulation, but I digress.

She sent Regulus away to his Mansion instantly, and since he was not there, the results of his actions there vanished accordingly. However she says that the healing of wounds caused by Regulus was a show of her good will, and she claimed to have purposefully not overwritten Petelgeuse taking in the Witch Factor, implying that the erasure of Regulus' actions there was a result of her actively changing reality rather than a natural consequence of altered cause and effect.

of having to replace the whole thing still stands because it's what most Rezero profiles on here are built on.

Yenpress is all we have for the first 9 volumes of the story, and for the 11 volumes of the light novel after that which have some major differences from the fan-translated web novel. Yenpress is a generally readable translation, but it obfuscates some of the details (eg. translating Authority as "power/ability") and occassionally makes a significant error (usually story/lore/character-related), though a significant scaling one was translating "The speed of the aurora" as "The speed of light". We already look into potentially erroneous scans that need double-checked, or sometimes corrected— a recent example that comes to mind is in Ex 3 where a significant feat is credited to the wrong character in a scene, which would've messed up scaling if it wasn't noticed that ot contradicted later stories. Case-by-case, if they translate something correctly I'm not bothered with using it.

How trustworthy are the scans from Yenpress that you used in this thread if it's all just filled with egregious mistakes & issues

If you would prefer if every yenpress scan in the justfication were translated by translation helpers, I wouldn't be particularly opposed, although I doubt it'd significantly change the meaning. The specific pages I requested translations for were just ones that were pointed out to me as supposedly being slightly erroneous.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Yet it's clearly not just physical laws, or just laws of physics, it's "The laws of the world." His power is not at all restricted to merely physical phenomena, as blatantly non-physical phenomena does not affect him. A passive Authority– which in itself is an ability that twists the laws of reality– with the power to manipulate souls fails to do anything to Regulus. Even if you ignored every physical law, every physical phenomenon, there's no way that would be possible. Its unchangeability beyond just the physical.


Paraphrasing: "With Lion's Heart, Regulus could ignore all of the rules/laws of the world, making those who are bound by concepts no match for him." is not a particularly vague statement, it's saying that at his absolute maximum he can ignore every law or concept. If what was meant was "just the laws of physics" in that quote, why would "rules of the world" (a term that was also used in regards to Minerva's Authority in Witch's Evaluation Meeting) be used instead of just "laws of physics", which is even brought up later? Mentioning the laws of physics being restored the moment deactivated Lion's Heart in his death scene is not meaningful either, as I've clarified that what Regulus ignores is selective, and without Little King it becomes harder to control, he very well could have been ignoring just a few laws of physics in that scene. It's not as though saying that Regulus was interfering with the laws of physics somehow makes earlier mentions of him ignoring all the rules/concepts of the world suddenly restricted to just physics.

Each Authority has a function/a specific ability it induces and if that function does not operate within context of working regardless of a time stop it would automatically not have an effect of Regulus because he is.

Regardless of if all Authority is fundamentally sourced from a baseline ability of law Manipulation what the specific abilities of Sirius herself does is that of a specific power which lets her affect souls to transfer damage/emotions so if this abilities doesn't function under a time stop then Regulus stopping his own time would make him immune to it.

Basically if I stopped time in an area and would Sirius's ability still work? If the answer is no then theres no reason to assume it would just bypass the stopped time of lions heart to begin with regardless of if Regulus was or wasn't talking about any laws beyond the physical.

Then when it comes to souls themselves if they aren't transcending time or have feats of being immune to time stop then Regulus stopping his time would fundamentally affect his soul in the area in which his time was stopped meaning it would be invulnerable as well.

This point was something I directly addressed in the prior downgrade thread already:

@Sonoftanavast9
I see you have been specifying that he can only reject physical laws when that is only partially true since soul, mind and other forms of non physical hax are also uninteractable including Carmilla's death hax

Thats a natural result of the timestop acting on him, unless the soul & mind in rezero is like beyond time or something it would be affected by him stopping his own time. To the best of my knowledge peoples souls/minds etc. are assumed to be kinda immaterially layered over their bodies or immaterially inside the bodies so if the body is frozen in time affected them would logically not be viable though this can vary from verse to verse depending on the way the Author chooses to portray the supposed timefreeze & the mechanics of souls but with no explicit statement of the soul being unaffected by altering time in verse then his time stop stopping stuff from affecting his soul is just a logical extension of the idea. Like most incorporeal beings which exists as just souls/conscious aren't automatically assumed immune to time stop on the wiki so time stop logically will affect his soul/mind etc. - This argument essentially would mean any incorporeal spiritual/mental etc. being would be immune to timestop automatically.

Regulus would obviously want the Gospel to work on him, it's extremely helpful. It's the main reason most people join the cult, as it's a guide to your desired future. He doesn't have his Authority set to absolute immutability as its default, it's something he toggles.

This would also explain Pandora's Authority sending him home– his instinct was to argue with Pandora rather than fight her on whether he'd leave. Though, it could also just be that her Authority is superior to Regulus'.

It's not about him "wanting the gospel to work on him" it's fundamentally the same point made in the downgrade thread which is that every indication so far is that it does work on him with 0 issue and his own profile states as much.

You are making an assumption that Regulus is setting his authority to allow the effect of the Gospel or Pandora's Authority get through when there is literally 0 Indication of this... Literally it is a completely baseless assumption with no actual proof/statement or showing of him specifically letting any of these things specifically bypass his authority.

Regulus does infact even fight here in that scene despite you implying that his instinct not to would somehow make him to turn off an aspect of his Authority which would make him immune to here ability. He literally eviscerates her (while saying "Over and Over Again... What does it take to kill you... ?!" which implies that he's done this repeatedly and is still trying to kill her permanently) then starts getting annoyed when she doesn't stay dead before she does the feat of sending him away.

At no point in this entire exchange did the Author makes it apparent that Regulus did anything to his authority to let here effect him, infact his behavior right before she sends him away points to the opposite as he is literally about to go on one of his tirades when she cuts him off (something he literally takes offence)

If he was acausal the gospel would be blank, it's really that simple. If Regulus was acausal in the manner you try to say he is then the gospel would be totally blank without any text in relation to him at all times. If he was acausal pandora wouldn't have been able to send him away

There is no point where this supposed relaxing of his Authority to let either Pandora or the Gospel affect him in any capacity is made apparent on the Page. Frankly unless you can substantiate scans where he says he's doing as much its not worth much as an arguement.

It's also possible that Pandora's Authority isn't even causality manipulation, but I digress.

This is a point already addressed in the prior thread repeatedly and the I will just say the same thing.

No, Regardless of if you think there is a broader as of yet unexplained main ability of her authority, the specific application of such an ability used on Regulus in that scene is just blatantly causality manipulation

[Here]

Doesn't sound vague to me considering the specific application of the authority which affected regulus as listed on the profile is explicitly causality manipulation

"It's a simple matter. If the Archbishop Corneas was never here, it follows that all the results of Archbishop Corneas's actions would also vanish."

This is undeniably Causality Manipulation - Now whether or not you think in a broader sense her Authority utilizes some other ability from which the causality manipulation is derived it doesn't really matter since the specific application of said Authority which affected regulus pretty explicitly is the causality manipulation.

Causality Manipulation can be achieved either as it's own ability or as a derivative of other abilities like Law Manipulation, Concept manipulation, reality warping, information manipulation etc but when it comes to Acausality often distinctions of what specific ability the causality manipulation is derived from is irrelevant as the Acausal being would still be considered immunized to such causal interactions either way. If this weren't the case every Acausal being would be treated as only immune to causal based abilities [Causality Manip/Fate Manip/Precog] in the specific context of whatever other ability it is derived from in their own verse.

[Here]

"It's a simple matter. If the Archbishop Corneas was never here, it follows that all the results of Archbishop Corneas's actions would also vanish."

She's specifically erasing his actions [A Cause] to remove the results of said actions [The Effects of that Cause] which is clearly causality manipulation - As I already pointed out whether you believe that at a fundamental level her Authority itself is something else it doesn't matter in the slightest because the application of that separate ability relevant to this discussion is undeniably causality manipulation.

Yenpress is all we have for the first 9 volumes of the story, and for the 11 volumes of the light novel after that which have some major differences from the fan-translated web novel. Yenpress is a generally readable translation, but it obfuscates some of the details (eg. translating Authority as "power/ability") and occassionally makes a significant error (usually story/lore/character-related), though a significant scaling one was translating "The speed of the aurora" as "The speed of light". We already look into potentially erroneous scans that need double-checked, or sometimes corrected— a recent example that comes to mind is in Ex 3 where a significant feat is credited to the wrong character in a scene, which would've messed up scaling if it wasn't noticed that ot contradicted later stories. Case-by-case, if they translate something correctly I'm not bothered with using it.

I think regardless of if "it's we have for the first 9 volumes" if it's just blatantly wrong to a great degree and filled with mistakes it might as well not be used at all and as such the verse (which is currently built upon it) should just be removed until supporters can have good translations made for everything relevant to the profiles.

Like I said before it's not really that big of an issue unless the translations are just completely messed up as a whole which you seem to indicate Yen Press to be.

If you would prefer if every yenpress scan in the justfication were translated by translation helpers, I wouldn't be particularly opposed, although I doubt it'd significantly change the meaning. The specific pages I requested translations for were just ones that were pointed out to me as supposedly being slightly erroneous.

If yen press is just completely filled with mistakes and issues then I would suggest doing that

 

[Zabazab]

Each Authority has a function/a specific ability it induces and if that function does not operate within context of working regardless of a time stop it would automatically not have an effect of Regulus because he is.

Regardless of if all Authority is fundamentally sourced from a baseline ability of law Manipulation what the specific abilities of Sirius herself does is that of a specific power which lets her affect souls to transfer damage/emotions so if this abilities doesn't function under a time stop then Regulus stopping his own time would make him immune to it.

His time being stopped and therefore granting immunity to only all physical phenomena would not include a potent metaphysical ability that twists the "laws of reality" (and can't be beaten out by the effects of divine protections, which are themselves constraints of the world created by the Od Lagna) like Sirius' Soulwashing— which of the laws of physics could be ignored in order to prevent such an interaction? If "all the laws/concepts of the world" just meant "The laws of physics", surely something like that would work on him. But it doesn't, because Lion's Heart blatantly is not restricted to just physical phenomena. If they meant just the laws of physics, they'd only say laws of physics instead of all laws/concepts of the world. You're viewing his timestop akin to the timestops of say Satella, when the two abilities couldn't be more different. Nobody frozen by Regulus has even been shown as physically frozen/unable to move, and people frozen in time by Satella are easily injured rather than possessing the "natural invincibility" that time-stop would supposedly grant. If Sirius was under Lion's Heart I'm certain Soulwashing would still work on people. If Sirius was under Satella's timestop I'm certain Soulwashing would be active, just not very effective beyond her frozen figure drawing one's attention, since it's moreso a potent passive charm that rapidly devolves into basically mind-control as one falls into her theatrics. If Sirius was under Minya she'd be shattered crystals on the ground, so Soulwashing would not work (she's dead).

I simply can't get on board with the logic that souls could be considered a physical phenomenon that immunity from the laws of physics like gravity, and inertia, and friction would render the manipulation of them useless (particularly Re:Zero souls, or really, Ods, which have some funky stuff involved). I can't get behind the idea that a term as broad as all the laws/concepts of the world actually means just the laws of physics, when we know the world has laws other than physical ones. Timestop is not a power which I believe covers his feats/statements.

I think ultimately we just aren't seeing what's written the same way. How I'd see timestop and how you'd see timestop isn't the same. How you'd read "laws/concepts of the world" and how I'd read "laws/concepts of the world" isn't the same.

It's not about him "wanting the gospel to work on him" it's fundamentally the same point made in the downgrade thread which is that every indication so far is that it does work on him with 0 issue and his own profile states as much.

You are making an assumption that Regulus is setting his authority to allow the effect of the Gospel or Pandora's Authority get through when there is literally 0 Indication of this... Literally it is a completely baseless assumption with no actual proof/statement or showing of him specifically letting any of these things specifically bypass his authority.

It's not that he turns off immunities, it's that he turns on immunities. He was easily ragdolled by Reinhard until he locked in and stopped receiving impacts. He is able to ignore gravity yet kept falling in pithole traps dug out by lesser spirits. Same with Pandora's "phenomena manipulation": He is not relaxing Lion's Heart to let them affect them, he hasn't chosen to be immune to them, just as he normally isn't immune to gravity or impacts. "The reason why he didn't always use it was because it was a power even he couldn't fully control"– it makes the day-to-day harder. Walking down stairs while ignoring gravity is a chore. I don't see any mentions of precognition or causality manip's interactions with acausality type 4 on the acausality page either, beyond the ability having the potential to grant resistances to such powers based on feats.

Like I said before it's not really that big of an issue unless the translations are just completely messed up as a whole which you seem to indicate Yen Press to be.

Any errors that matter are easily picked up on, because we've been combing through it for ages. Anything the translate correctly is correct, and vice-versa.

Yenpress is a generally readable translation, but it obfuscates some of the details and occassionally makes a significant error

Also, do you have any opinions on the sandbox beyond acausality? I want it to look pretty.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

His time being stopped and therefore granting immunity to only all physical phenomena would not include a potent metaphysical ability that twists the "laws of reality" (and can't be beaten out by the effects of divine protections, which are themselves constraints of the world created by the Od Lagna) like Sirius' Soulwashing— which of the laws of physics could be ignored in order to prevent such an interaction? If "all the laws/concepts of the world" just meant "The laws of physics", surely something like that would work on him. But it doesn't, because Lion's Heart blatantly is not restricted to just physical phenomena. If they meant just the laws of physics, they'd only say laws of physics instead of all laws/concepts of the world. You're viewing his timestop akin to the timestops of say Satella, when the two abilities couldn't be more different. Nobody frozen by Regulus has even been shown as physically frozen/unable to move, and people frozen in time by Satella are easily injured rather than possessing the "natural invincibility" that time-stop would supposedly grant. If Sirius was under Lion's Heart I'm certain Soulwashing would still work on people. If Sirius was under Satella's timestop I'm certain Soulwashing would be active, just not very effective beyond her frozen figure drawing one's attention, since it's moreso a potent passive charm that rapidly devolves into basically mind-control as one falls into her theatrics. If Sirius was under Minya she'd be shattered crystals on the ground, so Soulwashing would not work (she's dead).

The abilities do not require anything beyond just regular time stop to to be stopped... That's the entire point regardless of if he had actual statements that went into detail about anything beyond physical laws (He doesn't) he would still ignore their abilities because the mechanics of a timestop would still provide protection from them simply due to how Timestop works.

Regardless of if Divine Protections/Authority are based in Law Manipulation they each induce different specific effects, which are not in any way shape or form inherently resistant to time being stopped. For example, Garfield's divine protection of Earth Spirits just allows him to manipulate earth as long as his feat are planted to the ground, meaning that despite the core of divine protection being law manipulation the practical effect is just earth manipulation which a regular ass timestop would stop regardless of if it were law manipulation or not.

Sirius's ability operates by working on the soul directly to induce a resonance that allows for the spreading of here own Damage or Emotion across anyone affected [That is the actual practical effect of the Authority] - That is the practical effect of the ability in of itself which would inherently be stopped by a time stop regardless of if that time stop has any statement related to broader laws beyond the physical or not.

Regulus stops time for his body, his soul/mind etc. are assumed to be either immaterially layered over his body or immaterially inside the body so if the body so when his time is frozen they would both naturally be affected in tandem with it thus Sirius' authority will just not be able to bypass the inherent nature of the timestop

It's not that hard of a basic line of logic to comprehend

• A) In relation to Powers [Authorities/Divine Protections] - An ability is sourced from Law Manipulation -> The actual practical usage of that ability does a specific thing -> The specific thing it is used for is not exempt from time being stopped in any capacity -> Regulus's time stopped body would not be affected by it [And frankly any timestop would stop it]

Nothing you've said has actually changed much from the main downgrade thread, it's literally the same argument except now the specific focus is on Authorities rather than Divine Protections. The point remains the same, a regular ass timestop would stop the ability regardless of if it was caused by Law Manipulation or not so there's no reason to use Regulus being immune to it as a result of his authority as an indicator that it is anything more than the Timestoppage of his body

Much more the entire sentence about concepts is specifically just flowery language as he literally explains that it's just another way of express that he's rendered immune to "Physical Phenomena" for which he then lists ONLY physical phenomena as examples of what he can render himself immune to.

The next statement about concepts is more so him saying anyone who is bound to such would be incapable of beating him under normal circumstances

Finally we know for a fact that Physical Laws/Physics is specifically what is relevant to his Authority because when it was turned off we are told directly that Physics is what returned.

I simply can't get on board with the logic that souls could be considered a physical phenomenon that immunity from the laws of physics like gravity, and inertia, and friction would render the manipulation of them useless (particularly Re:Zero souls, or really, Ods, which have some funky stuff involved). I can't get behind the idea that a term as broad as all the laws/concepts of the world actually means just the laws of physics, when we know the world has laws other than physical ones. Timestop is not a power which I believe covers his feats/statements.

It's not about souls being considered physical phenomena, any timestop regardless of statements would be able to stop souls because the Wiki standards do not assume souls are automatically immune to time being stopped.

By your logic literally every incorporeal being which is a soul [The Entirety of Bleach and many other verses] would be simply immune to time manipulation regardless of anything which simply isn't the case at all

Regulus stops time for his body, his soul/mind etc. are assumed to be either immaterially layered over his body or immaterially inside the body so if the body so when his time is frozen they would both naturally be affected in tandem with it thus Sirius' authority will just not be able to bypass the inherent nature of the timestop

It's not that hard of a basic line of logic to comprehend

• B) In relation to Souls - Soul/Minds and other nonphysical aspects of a person are not assumed to be immune to time manipulation or time being stopped in the area they occupy -> Regulus stops the time of his body which houses his soul/mind -> His soul/mind are thus inherently rendered under the effect of his timestop

It's not hard to understand that unless you believe every being on the wiki who has Incorporeality via being a soul is immune to time stop/time manipulation in general then Regulus's soul within his body won't be any exception

It's not that he turns off immunities, it's that he turns on immunities. He was easily ragdolled by Reinhard until he locked in and stopped receiving impacts. He is able to ignore gravity yet kept falling in pithole traps dug out by lesser spirits. Same with Pandora's "phenomena manipulation": He is not relaxing Lion's Heart to let them affect them, he hasn't chosen to be immune to them, just as he normally isn't immune to gravity or impacts. "The reason why he didn't always use it was because it was a power even he couldn't fully control"– it makes the day-to-day harder. Walking down stairs while ignoring gravity is a chore. I don't see any mentions of precognition or causality manip's interactions with acausality type 4 on the acausality page either, beyond the ability having the potential to grant resistances to such powers based on feats.

He can get ragdolled by Reinhard in one instance and not in the next because he can choose when he retains or is influenced by momentum, that much is clear via how he uses his thrown projectiles which retain their momentum indefinitely until they are released from the effect of Lionsheart and how he does his own personal speed dash attack which he does by basically doing what he does for the thrown objects but for his entire body.

Gravity and Momentum are both physical laws which he has not only SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED but also has direct actual feats of making his authority exempt them while anything like Fate or Causality not only have 0 statement but no shown feats in the slightest, infact they have anti-feats instead.

He can choose but you're basically using a broad interpretation of an extremely vague statement which you link to completely unrelated statements in an attempt to straight up ignoring the part of said statements that actually go into any degree of detail (How he specifically lists physical laws/phenomena, how the "Concept" part of the first statement is specifically said to just be another way to say "Physical Phenomena" and how when his Authority is turned off specifically the laws of physics are what return to him)

It's not that hard to grasp that there is literally 0 statement relating to Causality or Fate in relation to regulus himself or his authority while every other statement calls to physical laws specifically.

Also, do you have any opinions on the sandbox beyond acausality? I want it to look pretty.

It's really good. There's no real issue I have with it at all which is why I didn't speak on it

 

[Phsccarvalho]

For type 5 I think it would be good to call @Theglassman12 ? He was responsible for the type 5 verification thread when the standards changed. So he has more experience on the subject.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I agree with Type 5, and personally, I also like the Authority Tabber.


Creating pages for power systems is long overdue, and I’ve previously emphasized the need for this as well.

 

[Trxyway]

Neutral

 

[CodeCCLL]

Since time doesn't flow, the laws of cause and effect don't work. In a place where there is no time, Regulus will also be causal. It's that simple. I have no idea how the Re:Zero supporters on this wiki can't figure this out and why they insist on it.

I totally disagree with acausality type 5.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Since time doesn't flow, the laws of cause and effect don't work.

That's not even the main issues, the statement mentioning Laws of Cause & Effect in the OP just straight up have literally no connection to Regulus at all, the argument entirely relies on arbitrarily assuming the "Laws/Rules" actually brought up in relation to Regulus include those despite the fact that the only laws every in the entirety of the text that are specifically called to in relation to his powers or outright shown are physical laws:

• The first statement specifically mentions Physical Phenomena [while going out of its way to clarify that when mentioning concepts in this context it's just being used as another way to say Physical Phenomena]
• The second mention of Laws/Concepts literally goes out of its way to list only physical Phenomena/laws right after to further give detail of what is being talked about
• And when his own ability gets turned off later into the fight it specifically says that PHYSICS has returned

The entire argument for Acausality is built upon ignoring all context surrounding these statements and taking the words Laws/Rules & Concepts in the broadest possible sense so that they can put everything said to have or be laws at any point in verse under the umbrella of the prior statements (Which again are made in no way shape or form in relation to Regulus Authority) despite the context of physical laws being so painfully obvious.

Then there's what can only be labeled as circumstantial evidence which doesn't hold up because of how all time stops work such as -

• Sirius' Powers not working on Regulus - Every form of time stop (Regardless of if it has statements of affecting any specific law or even not) will work on Sirius authority regardless of if it is law Manipulation or not so Regulus' Time stop blocking it is expected.
• Sirius's power and other soul affecting powers not working on Regulus - Every form of time stop regardless of if it has statements regarding immaterial objects will work on souls/purely spiritual beings - if it didn't work this way on wiki every single entity classified as a spirit which has incorporeality for it on the wiki would have time Manipulation Resistance as a standard power [Clearly no such reasoning exist on the page for that ability]
• Regulus being unchanging - The statement is made to explain simply how his time stop invulnerability works because anyone or anything under a time stop that grants invincibility would automatically not "Change" - this in of itself is not an indication of acausality type 5 alone because the damn reason he has it is plainly stated to be because he is under the effects of a time stop not due to any removal from causality

Then there's finally the fact that under the newer Acausality Type 4 standards, the ability only has the potential to even grant you any resistances but that requires that you have showings of resistances as a result of your acausality to every individual abilities that would be listed on under your acausality but Regulus has 0 actual showings in that regard while instead having anti-feats alone.

This has the potential to grant them resistances to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others, depending on its shown capabilities which should be specified on the given page.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Then there's finally the fact that under the newer Acausality Type 4 standards, the ability only has the potential to even grant you any resistances

This is a problem in the sandbox, along with acausality you have to list which resistances it would give. Since the revisions the power no longer gives default resistance to anything, the proposed resistances like DBH have to be attached.

 

[Worthless]

I'm also confident that Minerva ability to twist causality wouldn't work on him, but the lack of actual evidence makes the opposition not take it seriously. But,, if you could show that time and causality are equivalent or at least closely connected in this verse, you might be able to convince them more easily

 

[Robo432343]

how is it acausality type 5 if it can be bypassed

 

[Entity]

didn't Pandora's powers (listed as causality manipulation) work on Regulus?

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

didn't Pandora's powers (listed as causality manipulation) work on Regulus?

Yes, literally has no issue working one him

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

didn't Pandora's powers (listed as causality manipulation) work on Regulus?

that would simply mean her authority is higher (Minerva authority wouldnt work) or he didnt actively try to resist it (which is pretty in character for him to do)

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

that would simply mean her authority is higher (Minerva authority wouldnt work) or he didnt actively try to resist it (which is pretty in character for him to do)

There is literally no proof that Minerva's authority won't work and she has had 0 interaction with Regulus in any capacity to prove it.

Like most things on this thread, this is built on a flimsy assumption. There's is no proof that Pandora's Authority is some arbitrary degree "Higher" whatever than any other or his (And it's mechanics, which inherently function by altering the World, would near automatically disqualify him from Acausality because rather than using systems outside the world it influences the world itself) and no proof that Regulus was letting her affect him also that wouldn't even make sense since he was trying to kill her at the moment and insanely annoyed by her.

Literally all these are assumptions which made out of necessity because they would be required if you already believing that he had acausality

Pandora's Authority is higher - provide the exact statement where the specific way it is "higher" was explained, provide the supposed statement that would make the way Pandora's Authority is higher not just layered hax and actually something relevant to acausality

Regulus didn't actively try to resist - Provide the exact statement where he either said he went lax with his authority against her to let himself get transported or where he said he didn't want to resist her but could

Oh wait, non of this exists and the entire argument was built on assumptions because if you didn't make these baseless assumptions he can't have acausality.

 

[Theglassman12]

This sounds more like some specific invulnerability from his time stop rather than him actually existing beyond any forms of cause and effect. If it was type 5 Acausality it would be specifically tied to his existence being unchangeable as a result of being beyond cause and effect, most of this is just describing a timestop move that lets him be immune to any forms of damage in his world, you remove the timestop and he's just someone who's still under the rules of cause and effect.

 

[VortechsTG]

I simply take issue with the implication that Regulus' abilites are merely a result of timestop. Timestop wouldn't explain why he just comes back from being thrown into space because he is immune to the threat of flying out into space forever. It doesn't explain why he can control the extent to which he is affected by attacks and other phenomenon in general. If there is a better way to index this than acausality I would like to hear it.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Timestop wouldn't explain why he just comes back from being thrown into space because he is immune to the threat of flying out into space forever.

Neither does Acausality Type 4 or 5 so it's not relevant to this discussion.

How he does it being left in complete darkness just means we can't properly assess it for indexing as seperate from just the timestop because we have 0 info on what he actually does to come back.

It doesn't explain why he can control the extent to which he is affected by attacks and other phenomenon in general.

He can choose the extent to which physical laws can affect him - that in of itself is the explanation

We know this is also limited in some ways seeing as how he couldn't just delete his pre allowed momentum when Reinhard punted him into the ground & he knew he'd take massive damage/die once he was forced to turn off his Authority if the momentum remained.

If there is a better way to index this than acausality I would like to hear it.

There being gaps or unexplained aspects of a power doesn't mean it's not indexed well or that we can't index it.

We just use the info available as is. Reinhardt Divine Blessing of arrow avoidance is notoriously bare bones in terms of having 0 functional explanation to it to the point where it could probability manipulation (as is put on the profile), Vector Manipulation or any other ability used in a specific way.

 

[Zabazab]

(Planned on waiting on the other volume 19 scan being translated + Some more important stuff is going on for me, sorry)
Here's some raw scans for you lot if you want them;

Spoiler: Raws

──死体は消え、パンドラは蘇る。レグルスは消え、彼のいた痕(こん)跡(せき)も消える。

そしてその余波は、パンドラの無事と、レグルスの埋まった地面の穴だけに留まらない。その影響に最初に気付いたフォルトナは、思わず悲鳴を上げそうになった。

目を見開き、フォルトナが震える指を向けたのは、瀕(ひん)死(し)でいたはずのジュース──その千切れた腕が、足の重傷が、癒えて元通りになっていたのだ。

「コルニアス司教がいないのですから、コルニアス司教の行いの結果が消えるのも道理。単純なお話ですよ。もっとも、その傷を治したのは私からの厚意ですけれど」 —Volume 14, Chapter 3

そうして様々な可能性が潰れ、『獅子の心臓』の単語と、エミリアのレグルスの体温を感じなかったという証言、そこにラインハルトのくれた確信が結び付いて、わかる。

スバルの想定した無敵のパターンの中、それに当てはまる可能性は一つ──それは『無敵化』の権能ではなく、肉体の『時間停止』だ。

もっと、より正確に言えば、レグルスはあらゆる物体の『時間停止』が可能なのだ。

満たされている。欠落していない。完結している。

それが、事あるごとにレグルスが語った歪んだ持論だ。それが奴の醜悪な在り方を証明しているが、それ自体が奴の有する権能の告白でもあったのだ。

「肉体の時間が止まってるってことは、変化しないってことだ。変化しないってことはケガもしないし、水に濡れたりもしない。投げた砂、飛ばした水も時間が止まってるから、当たったモノに止められないで、素通りする」

漫画などでお馴(な)染(じ)みの異能に、『空間の断裂』のような力がある。

文字通り、空間そのものに断裂を生み、それに当たったものを強度を問わずに切断するといった力であることが多く、レグルスの存在はそれに近い。

時間の止まったレグルス・コルニアスは、空間の歪みそのものと言っていい。

時間を止めた砂粒は、あらゆる防護を突破する破壊力を持ち、水の時間を止めることで水面の上を自由に歩き、自身の時間を止めることで全ての攻撃を無効化する。

最強の矛と盾、その力は権能の応用、『無敵』はあくまで時間停止の副産物なのだ。 —Volume 19, Chapter 3

瞬間、溜めていた右足の力を爆発させ、スバルは躊(ちゆう)躇(ちよ)なく決めていた回避行動。横っ跳びになるスバルに、『真っ直ぐにしか飛べない』レグルスの攻撃は狙いを外した。

レグルスの超人化、それもまた肉体への時間停止の応用なのだ。

自分の肉体に時間停止を適用し、あらゆる物理現象の干渉を受けなくなるのがレグルスの権能の肝だ。それは究極、本当にあらゆる概念からの解放を意味する。

重力や空気抵抗、慣性の法則からも解放され、レグルスは究極の力を手に入れる。それを常に行わないのは、おそらくは奴自身にも制御できない力だから──。 —Volume 19, Chapter 3

手加減など、考えない。慈悲を見せてやるのもここまでだ。相手が『獅子の心臓』の権能を解き明かしたことや、あの『剣聖』がいることなど関係ない。

たった五秒でも、『無敵』の時間があればレグルスにはいくらでも敵の殺しようがある。絶望する顔や、断末魔を楽しめない。だから、あえてやらなかっただけだ。

『獅子の心臓』の発動中、レグルスはその気になればこの世の全ての法則を無視できる。その手法を用いれば、概念に縛られた存在などレグルスの敵ではない。

それこそ、『獅子の心臓』の効果を砂に適用し、都市の上空から手当たり次第にばらまくだけで殲(せん)滅(めつ)には事足りる。都市には他の大罪司教もいるが、あんな連中が死のうが生きようが知ったことではない。今この瞬間、自分がこの屈辱から抜け出す以上に重大なことがあるものか。勝ち誇った馬鹿共の顔を恐怖で塗り潰してやる。 —Volume 19, Chapter 6

The abilities do not require anything beyond just regular time stop to to be stopped... That's the entire point regardless of if he had actual statements that went into detail about anything beyond physical laws (He doesn't) he would still ignore their abilities because the mechanics of a timestop would still provide protection from them simply due to how Timestop works.

Regardless of if Divine Protections/Authority are based in Law Manipulation they each induce different specific effects, which are not in any way shape or form inherently resistant to time being stopped. For example, Garfield's divine protection of Earth Spirits just allows him to manipulate earth as long as his feat are planted to the ground, meaning that despite the core of divine protection being law manipulation the practical effect is just earth manipulation which a regular ass timestop would stop regardless of if it were law manipulation or not.

Sirius's ability operates by working on the soul directly to induce a resonance that allows for the spreading of here own Damage or Emotion across anyone affected [That is the actual practical effect of the Authority] - That is the practical effect of the ability in of itself which would inherently be stopped by a time stop regardless of if that time stop has any statement related to broader laws beyond the physical or not.

Regulus stops time for his body, his soul/mind etc. are assumed to be either immaterially layered over his body or immaterially inside the body so if the body so when his time is frozen they would both naturally be affected in tandem with it thus Sirius' authority will just not be able to bypass the inherent nature of the timestop

It's not that hard of a basic line of logic to comprehend

• A) In relation to Powers [Authorities/Divine Protections] - An ability is sourced from Law Manipulation -> The actual practical usage of that ability does a specific thing -> The specific thing it is used for is not exempt from time being stopped in any capacity -> Regulus's time stopped body would not be affected by it [And frankly any timestop would stop it]

Nothing you've said has actually changed much from the main downgrade thread, it's literally the same argument except now the specific focus is on Authorities rather than Divine Protections. The point remains the same, a regular ass timestop would stop the ability regardless of if it was caused by Law Manipulation or not so there's no reason to use Regulus being immune to it as a result of his authority as an indicator that it is anything more than the Timestoppage of his body

But their ability's time isn't being stopped, only Regulus is. The time-stopping effects of Minya don't extend to freezing and shattering the soul (of physical beings) either despite destroying the physical body of the Great Disaster's Undead and denying their regeneration, while their resurrection via transferring souls to new vessels continues to work without issue, despite both Minya and Lion's Heart being described as physical time-stops. The relationship between the body (vessel) and soul (Od) is in itself interesting as a result of several loredrops over the course of arcs 6-8, I wonder how exactly they behave under different conditions and such.

Much more the entire sentence about concepts is specifically just flowery language as he literally explains that it's just another way of express that he's rendered immune to "Physical Phenomena" for which he then lists ONLY physical phenomena as examples of what he can render himself immune to.

The next statement about concepts is more so him saying anyone who is bound to such would be incapable of beating him under normal circumstances

Finally we know for a fact that Physical Laws/Physics is specifically what is relevant to his Authority because when it was turned off we are told directly that Physics is what returned.

It says he can free himself from all rules/concepts blabla and then brings up air resistance, gravity, and inertia in that scene because that's the laws he's ignoring in that moment to go hyperspeed. And again, clearly non-physical phenomena can be included.

His Authority can mean the ultimate liberation from all concepts, making those who are bound by concepts no match form. That is indeed what it says.

The line of physics returning to normal when Regulus gets crushed isn't proof that concepts/rules this whole time restrictively referred only to the laws of physics— again, he was only known in that scene to be ignoring friction and maybe newton's 3rd (failing to slow down tunneling through the planet), which are indeed physical laws.

With the sheer amount of Non-Physical Stuff Regulus is immune to considering the Author's quotes, it's just very hard to believe it can only refer to physics. There are sword(s) in this world that sever logic and concepts.

To set the record straight, if Regulus-san went about things normally, he'd be undeniably one of the strongest characters in the story, so without Subaru, really pretty much no one in the story could defeat him. No one aside from Subaru would have been able to realize that the brides were his weak point. He's not even trying to protect them despite being his weak point, and all. –Season 3 Episode 12 Author's Commentary

It's not that hard to grasp that there is literally 0 statement relating to Causality or Fate in relation to regulus himself or his authority while every other statement calls to physical laws specifically.

I say this in my OP. And I maintain that anti-feats are exceedingly hard to prove when Regulus evidently lets people knock him around even when he's going on the offensive, and he has to lock-in to become completely inviolable (vs Reinhard, vs Petelgeuse).

He can choose the extent to which physical laws can affect him - that in of itself is the explanation

We know this is also limited in some ways seeing as how he couldn't just delete his pre allowed momentum when Reinhard punted him into the ground & he knew he'd take massive damage/die once he was forced to turn off his Authority if the momentum remained.

This was due to the loss of Little King.

We just use the info available as is. Reinhardt Divine Blessing of arrow avoidance is notoriously bare bones in terms of having 0 functional explanation to it to the point where it could probability manipulation (as is put on the profile), Vector Manipulation or any other ability used in a specific way.

Only slightly related but the Divine Protection of Projectile Evasion is most certainly vector manipulation, based on its use in the Arc 1 web novel and volume 40.


In any case I do feel we've both laid out or arguments enough (not trying to deny you a response to this post, just clarifying my stance) that mods can see each one well-enough. Whether it's Really Good Time-Stop or Acausality, a way to clarify its extent is probably needed, considering that Lion's Heart itself has been called inviolable and the strongest ability from a purely combat-perspective within the series, I'm not sure if a Note or an exhaustive list would be necessary.

I have no idea how the Re:Zero supporters on this wiki can't figure this out and why they insist on it.

Don't be rude, it's unnecessary.

I simply take issue with the implication that Regulus' abilites are merely a result of timestop. Timestop wouldn't explain why he just comes back from being thrown into space because he is immune to the threat of flying out into space forever. It doesn't explain why he can control the extent to which he is affected by attacks and other phenomenon in general. If there is a better way to index this than acausality I would like to hear it.

I am reminded of the scene in volume 14 where Petelgeuse snaps Regulus' neck 180°, only for it to immediately return to its regular position as his attacks begin to leave no impact on Regulus. Would you suggest indexing Regulus' inability to be chucked into space as part of his invincibility, rather than as a type of pseudo-flight?

most of this is just describing a timestop move that lets him be immune to any forms of damage in his world, you remove the timestop and he's just someone who's still under the rules of cause and effect.

Yes, he's permanently time-stopped by his Authority, and would be relatively powerless without it. Other than that, do you have any thoughts on Acausality Type 4? Or a more precise way to index the Authority?

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah so my point still stands, it's mostly an ability he's using via timestop to make himself immune to any forms of damage in his series and not literally his existence is beyond cause and effect in general. Unless there's some specific instances where we allow type 4 acausality via a random ability and not something that's tied to the existence of a character, I don't really see type 4 from it. It just sounds like he has some resistances to whatever abilities are affecting him in the series.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

(Planned on waiting on the other volume 19 scan being translated + Some more important stuff is going on for me, sorry)
Here's some raw scans for you lot if you want them;


But their ability's time isn't being stopped, only Regulus is. The time-stopping effects of Minya don't extend to freezing and shattering the soul (of physical beings) either despite destroying the physical body of the Great Disaster's Undead and denying their regeneration, while their resurrection via transferring souls to new vessels continues to work without issue, despite both Minya and Lion's Heart being described as physical time-stops. The relationship between the body (vessel) and soul (Od) is in itself interesting as a result of several loredrops over the course of arcs 6-8, I wonder how exactly they behave under different conditions and such.


It says he can free himself from all rules/concepts blabla and then brings up air resistance, gravity, and inertia in that scene because that's the laws he's ignoring in that moment to go hyperspeed. And again, clearly non-physical phenomena can be included.

His Authority can mean the ultimate liberation from all concepts, making those who are bound by concepts no match form. That is indeed what it says.

The line of physics returning to normal when Regulus gets crushed isn't proof that concepts/rules this whole time restrictively referred only to the laws of physics— again, he was only known in that scene to be ignoring friction and maybe newton's 3rd (failing to slow down tunneling through the planet), which are indeed physical laws.

With the sheer amount of Non-Physical Stuff Regulus is immune to considering the Author's quotes, it's just very hard to believe it can only refer to physics. There are sword(s) in this world that sever logic and concepts.



I say this in my OP. And I maintain that anti-feats are exceedingly hard to prove when Regulus evidently lets people knock him around even when he's going on the offensive, and he has to lock-in to become completely inviolable (vs Reinhard, vs Petelgeuse).


This was due to the loss of Little King.



Only slightly related but the Divine Protection of Projectile Evasion is most certainly vector manipulation, based on its use in the Arc 1 web novel and volume 40.


In any case I do feel we've both laid out or arguments enough (not trying to deny you a response to this post, just clarifying my stance) that mods can see each one well-enough. Whether it's Really Good Time-Stop or Acausality, a way to clarify its extent is probably needed, considering that Lion's Heart itself has been called inviolable and the strongest ability from a purely combat-perspective within the series, I'm not sure if a Note or an exhaustive list would be necessary.



Don't be rude, it's unnecessary.



I am reminded of the scene in volume 14 where Petelgeuse snaps Regulus' neck 180°, only for it to immediately return to its regular position as his attacks begin to leave no impact on Regulus. Would you suggest indexing Regulus' inability to be chucked into space as part of his invincibility, rather than as a type of pseudo-flight?



Yes, he's permanently time-stopped by his Authority, and would be relatively powerless without it. Other than that, do you have any thoughts on Acausality Type 4? Or a more precise way to index the Authority?

Now we need to get Re:zero to Planet kevel, ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶S̶t̶a̶r̶ ̶l̶e̶v̶e̶l̶,̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶u̶t̶h̶o̶r̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶t̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶

 

[Zabazab]

p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶S̶t̶a̶r̶ ̶l̶e̶v̶e̶l̶

Not happening!

 

[VortechsTG]

Now we need to get Re:zero to Planet kevel, ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶p̶o̶s̶s̶i̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶S̶t̶a̶r̶ ̶l̶e̶v̶e̶l̶,̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶u̶t̶h̶o̶r̶ ̶s̶t̶a̶t̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶

That ain't happening anytime soon

 

[Zabazab]

Unless there's some specific instances where we allow type 4 acausality via a random ability and not something that's tied to the existence of a character, I don't really see type 4 from it.

I don't believe it has to be tied to a character's "base existence" itself, does it? At least based on the Time Ring (which is even used as an example on the acausality page) or the Power of Waking.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

But their ability's time isn't being stopped, only Regulus is. The time-stopping effects of Minya don't extend to freezing and shattering the soul (of physical beings) either despite destroying the physical body of the Great Disaster's Undead and denying their regeneration, while their resurrection via transferring souls to new vessels continues to work without issue, despite both Minya and Lion's Heart being described as physical time-stops. The relationship between the body (vessel) and soul (Od) is in itself interesting as a result of several loredrops over the course of arcs 6-8, I wonder how exactly they behave under different conditions and such.

Their ability will still need to interact with Regulus himself which can't happen because the his body, and in turn the area his body occupies thus any content of it like the soul at any given moment, is invulnerable via being stopped in time. When I say any timestop would stop the ability I mean both the type that is used for invulnerability and the time that just stops things in an area without necessarily granting that.

Minya is an ability with more than one effect, shattering of the individual isn't connected to the stopping of time. This is something I brought up in the prior downgrade thread when you made this exact same argument -

Beatrice's timestop 'Minya' is a curse that has more than one effect acting alongside it which is responsible for it killing targets because it manifests as a purple crystal that reduces the force of their existence then eventually shatters alongside them but even ignoring that if the fact that it killed the target alone is you're proof of something it won't matter because Regulus' own timestop stops his heart and would kill him ordinarily if he used it for more than a few seconds at a time if not for the fact that he spreads his heart across his wives.

You're basically trying to pretend like the crystal shattering & the death caused by it is a pure result of how Beatrice's "Minya" ability stops time rather than just being another effect Minya has independent from it's capacity to stop time.

On Beatrice's own profile on the Wiki it outright attributes Minya's Durability Negation to the transmutation effect rather than the stoppage of time

Minya stops time on an affected target but the actual effect responsible for killing people is the fact that it reducing the force of their existence while transmuting them into crystals that shatter not the stopping of their time. Even if we go out of our way to ignore this and says - yes Minya killing it's target is a direct result of time stoppage only - then your argument is just out of luck on that front as well because Regulus' own Authority will literally kill him by stopping his heart but only doesn't because he spreads his heart through all his wives.

It's the same argument already made in the downgrade thread

It is the effect of the curse reducing the force of a persons existence while transmuting their body to crystal that gets shatters which causes death not affecting the souls not the time stop itself so that has no bearing on them getting killed by Minya. Though again even for any of this to be relevant it would have to be standard across the wiki that Soul/Spiritually incorporeal beings are resistant to all Time Manipulation simply for having that ability of incorporeality but that clearly isn't a wiki standard at all.

It says he can free himself from all rules/concepts blabla and then brings up air resistance, gravity, and inertia in that scene because that's the laws he's ignoring in that moment to go hyperspeed. And again, clearly non-physical phenomena can be included.

His Authority can mean the ultimate liberation from all concepts, making those who are bound by concepts no match form. That is indeed what it says.

The line of physics returning to normal when Regulus gets crushed isn't proof that concepts/rules this whole time restrictively referred only to the laws of physics— again, he was only known in that scene to be ignoring friction and maybe newton's 3rd (failing to slow down tunneling through the planet), which are indeed physical laws.

With the sheer amount of Non-Physical Stuff Regulus is immune to considering the Author's quotes, it's just very hard to believe it can only refer to physics. There are sword(s) in this world that sever logic and concepts.

We can literally go by the statement and it's clear that it's all about the physical laws

• The first relevant sentence says "The core of Regulus's power was to apply time-stoppage to his body, making him immune to effects from all physical phenomena. In other words, it was the greatest/ultimate form of liberation/freedom from all concepts" followed by "Freed from the laws of Gravity, air resistance and inertia regulus obtained ultimate power"

They go out of their way to spell it out that next sentence is just another way of expressing what is said in the first sentence... Anyone with a passing grasp of language would tell you that the first is more relevant as it not only goes into the greatest degree of detail in talking about the nature of Regulus' ability but also the later is just another less detailed way to express the same thing intended to be expressed by the first sentence which would make it flowery in context to the first sentence.

If I said "I escaped from society by living in the wilderness so I'm removed from all civic responsibilities. In other words, I've reached the ultimate form of freedom from Laws"... "Freed from the taxation, court hearings and bill payments I obtained the ultimate power."

You wouldn't sit here and tell me that it makes even an once of sense to ignore all the context surrounding the statement - "In other words, I've reached the ultimate form of freedom from Laws" but that's essentially what you are attempting to argue.

You're entire argument relies on us basically crossing out all parts of that statement besides the singular mention of "concepts" and not putting that sentence in context to all other sentences surrounding it, basically pretending the full statement looks like this:

"The core of Regulus's power was to apply time-stoppage to his body, making him immune to effects from all physical phenomena[Please ignore this]. In other words [Definitely ignore this], it was the greatest/ultimate form of liberation/freedom from all concepts [Yes, only this exists]. Freed from the laws of Gravity, air resistance and inertia regulus obtained ultimate power[Also ignore this too]"

When you add the actual context relevant to the statements with that of the other statements where it is outright said that Physics returned it's plainly obvious that Physics is what is relevant

With the sheer amount of Non-Physical Stuff Regulus is immune to considering the Author's quotes, it's just very hard to believe it can only refer to physics. There are sword(s) in this world that sever logic and concepts.

This is again an appeal to vagueness rather than anything concrete. Any Time stop that grants invulnerability would automatically be immune toa wide variety of what we would consider "Non-Physical" hax simply by virtue of it's mechanics as a timestop. What specific abilities do you think are relevant to this conversation? because sheer volume in of itself is irrelevant.

I say this in my OP. And I maintain that anti-feats are exceedingly hard to prove when Regulus evidently lets people knock him around even when he's going on the offensive, and he has to lock-in to become completely inviolable (vs Reinhard, vs Petelgeuse).

The anti-feats are exceptionally easy to prove because there's a difference between getting knocked around mostly harmlessly & getting forcibly sent away when you literally just killed the person that did it for even attempting to tell you what to do and even after they interrupted you (something we know from prior showings makes you violently annoyed because you believe your rights are being trampled on)

What's hard to prove is that Regulus was somehow allowing Pandora or the book to affect him when there's no actual basis for that claim.

Getting knocked around is different from getting DE spawned to your mansion while you have actively been trying to kill the person doing it and have the personality of regulus in which you are violently annoyed by them first telling you what to do and doing something we all know sets you off - specifically interrupting you.

You first tried to claim that leading up to and in the moment Pandora removed Regulus, his instinct actually wasn't even trying to kill her at all (Instead he wanted to argue) but that was clearly false in every way seeing as how he literally eviscerated her the moment she tried to tell him what to do and started complaining about how she kept coming back.

This was due to the loss of Little King.

Losing Little King only meant that he was back to his time limited use of Lions heart where he has to turn it off and on again or he'll die.

Little King is an ability that does one specific thing - It lets him spread "Hearts" to those he considers his wives (Part of his little kingdom).... That's all, it doesn't strengthen the time stop nor alter how it functions.

All it does is provide him a mean to circumvent the primary weakness of Lionheart such that he can keep it running indefinitely

If you can provide relevant statements where Little King is said to do anything other than what I just said here (which aren't just taking the fact that it "strengthens" loionheart by letting him circumvent the limitation). It doesn't alter the core mechanics of the time stoppage offered by Lions heart at all, only lets him loophole his way out of his heart being stopped killing him.

Only slightly related but the Divine Protection of Projectile Evasion is most certainly vector manipulation, based on its use in the Arc 1 web novel and volume 40.


In any case I do feel we've both laid out or arguments enough (not trying to deny you a response to this post, just clarifying my stance) that mods can see each one well-enough. Whether it's Really Good Time-Stop or Acausality, a way to clarify its extent is probably needed, considering that Lion's Heart itself has been called inviolable and the strongest ability from a purely combat-perspective within the series, I'm not sure if a Note or an exhaustive list would be necessary.

Honestly, I'd prefer if it was listed as Vector Manipulation based on what I have seen of it and what little actual relevant explanation it has

I feel like I've laid most of my argument in the last thread and am just repeating myself mostly but sure lets leave it at that. As for the matter of a list of stuff it would Ignore I do not see the need for that at all as most likely it would just arbitrarily start putting stuff with 0 evidence