[Re:Zero] Regulus Corneas Revamp

[Zabazab]

I mean, Regulus's ability is always active, but he gets affected by RBD and presumably Aldebaran's ability.

We still haven't fully grasped the nature of his Domain Expansion's Matrix, but Return by Death (probably) destroys and recreates the world which would obviously nuke Regulus at least after his 5 seconds are up.

 

[MrTayman616]

but Return by Death (probably) destroys and recreates the world which would obviously nuke Regulus at least after his 5 seconds are up.

Not likely based on the explanations in arc 6 and because of the existences like Reinhard and Satella.

It's mostly shown to be time reversal.

 

[Zabazab]

Not likely based on the explanations in arc 6 and because of the existences like Reinhard and Satella.

I don't see how Reinhard is related to the mechanical way in which Return by Death returns Subaru, but it is much, much more likely it's destroying and recreating the world rather than reversing time. Mainly because of these three quotes:

"So a loop or time slip, huh... I mean, I'm used to this sort of thing happening in manga, but I saw somewhere that realistically it was really hard to explain time travel to the past... like, that it would be easier to remake the world from scratch rather than slip back in time." —Re:Zero Volume 1, Chapter 4, Section 2

If the Book of the Dead of this Subaru was truly here, then― “Am I being treated as deceased, ever since I lost my memories… The Books of the Dead of Taygeta, that Hall of Memories, is even observing the worlds I die in…?”

If that were the case, then in no way was it inconceivable that it was depicting Subaru’s Deaths in some type of form through the Book of the Dead. However, in that case, what did that make of Return by Death?

“Whether it rewinds time, or does it rebuild the world itself, I’d given a thought to both but…”

For argument’s sake, along the hypothesis that the Books of the Dead held a method to generate the Book of “Natsuki Subaru”, it could not be helped but to reach the conviction that the latter had much more likelihood. If that held true, then the phenomenon which encased this Natsuki Subaru was not something as charming as Return by Death, but― “Am I an idiot? No, I am definitely an idiot… Damn coward.” —Re:Zero Arc 6, Chapter 73, ""Natsuki Subaru""

“Unfortunately, Subaru…”

“Bro’s alive.”

“―Al-chin!”

Shaking her head, Taritta tried to express her condolences. But her statement was interrupted by Al’s words full of conviction; hearing them made Medium’s face light up.

Naturally, Abel turned his eyes, which seemed to be in a foul mood, towards Al, “Clown, how can you be so sure of his survival?”

“Plain and simple, it’s ‘cause Natsuki Subaru’s that kinda guy. Or rather…”

“Rather?”

“The world hasn’t been destroyed. That’s my basis.”

Taritta could not fully stomach the rationale and the logic that Al laid out. It seemed the same went for Medium, who also tilted her head with a look of incomprehension. —Re:Zero Arc 7, Chapter 60, "The Planting of a Tumultuous Seedling"

 

[MrTayman616]

I don't see how Reinhard is related to the mechanical way in which Return by Death returns Subaru, but it is much, much more likely it's destroying and recreating the world rather than reversing time. Mainly because of these two quotes:

“The world hasn’t been destroyed. That’s my basis.”

Aldebaran talks about the end of the world many times. Rather than RBD, it's something that will happen.

That would be――

Aldebaran: “――Seven days.”

Shopkeeper: “――――”

Aldebaran: “In seven days, it will be settled―― In seven days, the cause of the world’s end will be removed.”

He thought it was going to happen when the Witch of Envy appeared in Chaosflame.

Not just that but Aldebaran is extremely afraid of the world's end, but his reasoning for not killing Subaru is because it would be his battlefield. He was also fine with using Subaru even though he's afraid of the end, which means it can't be the case at all.

So at the very least, absolutely nothing about Alderaban's explanations imply RBD destroys and recreate the world.

Characters like Reinhard and Satella are relevant because they exist in the world.

 

[Zabazab]

“The world hasn’t been destroyed. That’s my basis.”

Aldebaran talks about the end of the world many times. Rather than RBD, it's something that will happen.

Aldebaran very clearly says the basis for Subaru being alive is because the world has not been destroyed. If Subaru was dead, the world would be destroyed. Both we and Aldebaran know that Subaru Returns by Death. That is a very heavy implication of Return by Death's nature, and is backed up by the quotes from arcs 1 and 6. Whether or not this is related to whatever he blames Subaru for doing in the future doesn't matter in this context.

Reinhard and Satella existing does not poke a single hole in this. Satella herself is the one who perfects Return by Death for Subaru to make it such a powerful Authority in the first place. Reinhard has like negative importance in this whole situation idk what role you think he'd have.

 

[MrTayman616]

Aldebaran very clearly says the reason why Subaru is alive is because the world has not been destroyed. If Subaru was dead, the world would be destroyed. Both we and Aldebaran know that Subaru Returns by Death. That is a very heavy implication of Return by Death's nature, and is backed up by the quotes from arcs 1 and 6. Whether or not this is related to whatever he blames Subaru for doing in the future doesn't matter in this context.

And he literally calls him the cause of the world's end. Just taking it without considering several other statement + the way how he's extremely scared of the world's end while completely fine about Subaru's death.

Everything cleary shows "Subaru is alive because the world has not been destroyed." doesn't refer to RBD here.

Reinhard and Satella existing does not poke a single hole in this. Satella herself is the one who perfects Return by Death for Subaru to make it such a powerful Authority in the first place. Reinhard has like negative importance in this whole situation idk what role you think he'd have.

It would mean it destroys Satella as well. There are moments where their connection were lost.

The same for Dragon Sword Reid, as we know there aren't multiple ones and that sword will remain even if the world ends.

 

[Zabazab]

And he literally calls him the cause of the world's end. Just taking it without considering several other statement + the way how he's extremely scared of the world's end while completely fine about Subaru's death.

Everything cleary shows "Subaru is alive because the world has not been destroyed." doesn't refer to RBD here.

I don't recall him being scared of the end of the world, just scared of Satella when he was infantilized, when did he say this? And it is very blatantly related to Subaru's death and Subaru's death naturally triggers Return by Death. Like this is so obviously related I don't really understand what you're suggesting— Subaru being alive means the world is fine and Subaru being dead means the world is destroyed. I also need you to post quotes when you claim things I can't scour the last 10 volumes for these Al scenes.

It would mean it destroys Satella as well. There are moments where their connection were lost.

The same for Dragon Sword Reid, as we know there aren't multiple ones and that sword will remain even if the world ends.

Either Satella is destroyed with the world and recreated, or she lives through the world's destruction, either way works. It doesn't matter since it's rebuilt anyway, she just gets put back in place.

Same for the Dragon Sword, whether it survives the world's destruction isn't important because if it does, it can just be put back in place.

 

[MrTayman616]

I don't recall him being scared of the end of the world, just scared of Satella when he was infantilized, when did he say this? And it is very blatantly related to Subaru's death and Subaru's death naturally triggers Return by Death. Like this is so obviously related I don't really understand what you're suggesting— Subaru being alive means the world is fine and Subaru being dead means the world is destroyed. I also need you to post quotes when you claim things I can't scour the last 10 volumes for these Al scenes.

He was screaming because he thought that the world was ending.

The tempestuous rumbling of the earth, the reverberation of howls, it was as if they were clamoring for the end of the world.

???: [Uh, uhh, uhhh… Hk!]

If he were to try holding his head and covering his ears, he would be unable to do so.

It was the curse of possessing only a sole arm. He was unable to use both his hands to cover his own ears, as to completely dissociate his consciousness from this end of the world.

Putting his right ear against his lifted shoulder, he stuck the fingers of his outstretched hand into his left ear, attempting to counter with an inadequate earplug. It was impossible.

The ground trembled. The air was terrified. The world was dying.

All of them were symbolic of the horror that was eating away at Al and robbing his whole body of strength.

Al: [Why… Why, here… Hk!]

His voice trailed off, as he cursed and cursed all the despairing events that had taken place until this moment.

Of course, such cursing meant naught. Because that was no curse at all. He was merely being a poor loser, doing nothing more than comforting himself after the game was over, saying that it would have been better to do it like this or like that.

Either Satella is destroyed with the world and recreated, or she lives through the world's destruction, either way works. It doesn't matter since it's rebuilt anyway, she just gets put back in place.

First one, we all know it's impossible.

Second one, still not because it's extremely specific (also can't be true anyway). It would create another Satella, basically.

Same for the Dragon Sword, whether it survives the world's destruction isn't important because if it does, it can just be put back in place.

It would create another sword.

 

[Zabazab]

He was screaming because he thought that the world was ending.

I would argue he was specifically scared because:

1. Al doesn't have his Authority here, so if he dies it's over.
2. It's Satella, who he feels some extreme emotions towards, namely terror and regret. Infantilization playing a role in how emotional he got wouldn't be surprising either.

Especially given how casual he is when referring to the world's continued existience proving Subaru was alive, and in him getting Reinhard to pin down Satella despite their fight guaranteeing the world's end if not stopped in a week.

And again, this is with the context of the arcs 1 & 6 quotes which vetbatim state "remaking the world from scratch would be easier than explaining time travel" and "the latter (rebuilding the world itself) held much more likelyhood."

Second one, still not because it's extremely specific (also can't be true anyway). It would create another Satella, basically.
It would create another sword.

No real reason why this would have to be the case.

 

[MrTayman616]

Al doesn't have his Authority here, so if he dies it's over.

Not even a second of concern about himself within the entire page. Quite literally afraid of the end of the world.

It's Satella, who he feels some extreme emotions towards, namely terror and regret. Infantilization playing a role in how emotional he got wouldn't be surprising either.

The text clearly refers to the end. It doesn't even mention about Satella or Al's feelings about her in any way.

Especially given how casual he is when referring to the world's continued existience proving Subaru was alive, and in him getting Reinhard to pin down Satella despite their fight guaranteeing the world's end if not stopped in a week.

Huh? Nothing like that. Within seven days, he'll remove Natsuki Subaru (the one who'll cause the end of the world). Not that if he can't do it within seven days, it'd over.

Also, not like Satella and Reinhard's fight will destroy the world, it will last for eternity. Al says people who are watching the fight can just continue watching for their entire lifetime as it won't end

Also his casual talk is because he knows Natsuki Subaru will cause the end of the world. It didn't happen yet, so he's alive.

And again, this is with the context of the arcs 1 & 6 quotes which vetbatim state "remaking the world from scratch would be easier than explaining time travel" and "the latter (rebuilding the world itself) held much more likelyhood."

So no memory Subaru's idea when he sees the book for the first time? He hadn't even read the book. Also he didn't believe it either.

Not to mention, "time reversal" quotes are extremely vast within all arcs. Not comparable to "destroy and recreate the world" which we mostly see in Arc 4 because of Echidna's trial.

 

[VortechsTG]

Which feat is it that grants a layer?

Reinhard not being able to do anything to him. In the first place, Wilhelm, let alone Reinhard, should easily be able to cut something like Minya down. Even Elsa's cloak nullified Minya. Not to mention all of his divine protections. An 80% resistance to time stop should mean he can hit Regulus with 80% effectiveness, not that he would need that much to mince him. At the very least it would drastically change how he interacts with him compared to everyone else.

 

[Zabazab]

Not even a second of concern about himself within the entire page. Quite literally afraid of the end of the world.
The text clearly refers to the end. It doesn't even mention about Satella or Al's feelings about her in any way.

Not in the specific quote, but when he speaks with Olbart he declares that no one can stop "that thing" besides Natsuki Subaru, obviously referring to the Witch. Sunlight on the Water also references Al's terror at the thought of facing the Witch.

Huh? Nothing like that. Within seven days, he'll remove Natsuki Subaru (the one who'll cause the end of the world). Not that if he can't do it within seven days, it'd over.

Also, not like Satella and Reinhard's fight will destroy the world, it will last for eternity. Al says people who are watching the fight can just continue watching for their entire lifetime as it won't end

No. The time frame is chosen because their battle will end the world in seven days.

And, Aldebaran’s decided time frame of seven days was not unrelated to that battle. ―Rather, it was actually quite closely connected.

As far as Aldebaran knew, the Sword Saint and the Witch of Envy were evenly matched. That battle would continue repeating the same moves for a thousand days, and no terminus would be reached in that back and forth combat.

But, that was only when the matter was constrained to being between the Sword Saint and the Witch of Envy.

Now that a battle between the two had been realized through Aldebaran’s scheming, it would not actually continue on for a thousand days.

That was because―,

Aldebaran: [The world will come crumbling down before their battle can reach a conclusion. If it ever comes to that, it’s over.]

Ere the world’s ruination could transpire, it would be necessary to put an end to that battle.

In that sense, though he had been the one to make the matchup, that ultimate battle had also become a cause bringing about the world’s end, and thus one of the things Aldebaran had proclaimed he would remove.

Aldebaran: [So many things… there are so many things I gotta do…] —Re:Zero Arc 9, Chapter 17, "Please, Don't Forgive Me"

Also his casual talk is because he knows Natsuki Subaru will cause the end of the world. It didn't happen yet, so he's alive.

Al's text states that Subaru's death and the world's end go hand-in-hand. Do you really think Subaru's death and the world ending being linked has nothing to do with Return by Death? Surely his continued existence would be the cause of the world's end if it was as you say. Al was even fine without carrying out his purpose when Priscilla was his sun, so he didn't have urgency regarding some imminent threat.

So no memory Subaru's idea when he sees the book for the first time? He hadn't even read the book. Also he didn't believe it either.

It's about what the existence of multiple Books of the Dead suggests, that each new world results in a new Book of Natsuki Subaru. And while it isn't confirmed, I do believe Al's Authority is either time reversal or sending his mind back to a previous point in time, which only updates a single Book of Aldebaran, which suggests Return by Death operates differently from the very root.

Not to mention, "time reversal" quotes are extremely vast within all arcs. Not comparable to "destroy and recreate the world" which we mostly see in Arc 4 because of Echidna's trial.

Time reversal, loops, slips, is a convenient wording. The true nature of Return by Death is ultimately still unknown. And no, Echidna's Trial of the Unthinkable Present was not about the world being destroyed and recreated, it was about Subaru's spirit jumping to parallel universes.

Reinhard not being able to do anything to him. In the first place, Wilhelm, let alone Reinhard, should easily be able to cut something like Minya down. Even Elsa's cloak nullified Minya. Not to mention all of his divine protections. An 80% resistance to time stop should mean he can hit Regulus with 80% effectiveness, not that he would need that much to mince him. At the very least it would drastically change how he interacts with him compared to everyone else.

Darkness Nullification is resistance to Yin Magic which Regulus's timestop is not. I also don't know whether this would be a matter of layers if divine protections can't directly trump Authorities.

 

[VortechsTG]

I also don't know whether this would be a matter of layers if divine protections can't directly trump Authorities.

And yet they can protect Theresia from Pandora's authority and likely Reinhard from Sirius'.

 

[VortechsTG]

The fact that Minya itself can't affect Regulus is enough justification for a layer as well. It's the same thing everyone keeps arguing in every Regulus thread where it's relevant. "Anyone with timestoping abilities should be able to interact with Regulus," is the current state of Regulus discussion.

 

[MrTayman616]

Not in the specific quote, but when he speaks with Olbart he declares that no one can stop "that thing" besides Natsuki Subaru, obviously referring to the Witch. Sunlight on the Water also references Al's terror at the thought of facing the Witch.

Natsuki Subaru is the cause, not that he's the one who destroys it. (I mean it'd obviously be related to the Witch)

Aldebaran himself is scared of the world ending. He also stated the cause of it is be Natsuki Subaru. (I'm not claiming that Al is competely fine against the witch or anything. It's just that his statement about "Natsuki Subaru is alive because the world hasn't ended" doesn't seem to refer to RBD at all.)

It's about what the existence of multiple Books of the Dead suggests, that each new world results in a new Book of Natsuki Subaru. And while it isn't confirmed, I do believe Al's Authority is either time reversal or sending his mind back to a previous point in time, which only updates a single Book of Aldebaran, which suggests Return by Death operates differently from the very root.

I mean with that logic, Aldebaran would have to destroy and recreate the world at least once? (Though yes, we don't know if they operate the same)

Time reversal, loops, slips, is a convenient wording. The true nature of Return by Death is ultimately still unknown. And no, Echidna's Trial of the Unthinkable Present was not about the world being destroyed and recreated, it was about Subaru's spirit jumping to parallel universes.

True :d

The fact that Minya itself can't affect Regulus is enough justification for a layer as well. It's the same thing everyone keeps arguing in every Regulus thread where it's relevant. "Anyone with timestoping abilities should be able to interact with Regulus," is the current state of Regulus discussion.

Minya isn't an attack that is stopped in time, it's an attack that stops and shatters the time of the person it hits. There is no reason for why it should work against someone like Regulus who's already in that condition, no? (It isn't able to interact with him at all since Minya isn't in that state itself)

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Should probably let yall know but I already had Regulus's time stop layer accepted a while ago

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Minor Bump.

 

[Zabazab]

Snip

Aight then

Snip

Is this thread good to apply now?

 

[Vietthai96]

How many vote you have?

 

[MrTayman616]

Aight then

I don't think that should be counted here.

That definitely doesn't give a layer to this ability as they are fundamentally different.

What Reinhard resists isn't time stop, but the magic itself. The verse explains the difference quite well.

 

[Zabazab]

How many vote you have?

4 aside from the acaus stuff which was disagreed with.

I don't think that should be counted here.

Aight then

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I don't think that should be counted here.

That definitely doesn't give a layer to this ability as they are fundamentally different.

What Reinhard resists isn't time stop, but the magic itself. The verse explains the difference quite well.

The fact that the authority works on someone who resists time stop just means that authorities are layered in verse too

imo, all authorities are layered anyway since Authorities>Blessing res>Magic

 

[MrTayman616]

The fact that the authority works on someone who resists time stop just means that authorities are layered in verse too

imo, all authorities are layered anyway since Authorities>Blessing res>Magic

That's not how it works. Reinhard doesn't resist time stop itself. He resist magic. It works way too differently inverse.

 

[VortechsTG]

I don't think that should be counted here.

That definitely doesn't give a layer to this ability as they are fundamentally different.

What Reinhard resists isn't time stop, but the magic itself. The verse explains the difference quite well.

Ok, but, like, he also resists authorities as evidenced by the fact the divine protection of the Sword Saint would have protected Theresia from Pandora's authority.

 

[MrTayman616]

Ok, but, like, he also resists authorities as evidenced by the fact the divine protection of the Sword Saint would have protected Theresia from Pandora's authority.

So tell me how he resists Gluttony again, he doesn't.

Reinhard doesn't resist "Authorities" themselves. If he resists an ability of an authority, it'd be a specific resistance, or simply a resistance based on how that Authority works.

 

[MrTayman616]

the fact the divine protection of the Sword Saint would have protected Theresia from Pandora's authority.

Also there is no such thing iirc. I just remember the author stating that "Theresia would still live" but nothing like "she can resist against her authority" etc. It's not even really explained yet either.

 

[VortechsTG]

Also there is no such thing iirc. I just remember the author stating that "Theresia would still live" but nothing like "she can resist against her authority" etc. It's not even really explained yet either.

Regardless of what it means for Regulus, Pandora instantly deleted her consciousness. There is no way she could have survived without a resistance to that.

 

[MrTayman616]

Regardless of what it means for Regulus, Pandora instantly deleted her consciousness. There is no way she could have survived without a resistance to that.

...And? Why would Pandora's ability be related to this situation at all? We don't even know what or how she did it.

Why would it even matter regardless?

 

[Zabazab]

How many vote you have?

4 aside from the acaus stuff which was disagreed with.

Bump, looking for a thumbs up or down.

 

[Vietthai96]

Can you explain to me the reason for Time Stop layer again?, i missed those stuffs, probably

 

[Zabazab]

Can you explain to me the reason for Time Stop layer again?, i missed those stuffs, probably

There's currently no layer in place. One was originally suggested because Reinhard resists timestop and was affected by Regulus, but Reinhard's resistance stems from a resistance to magic, and Regulus doesn't use magic.

The only argument for a layer as I see it is in the inherit order of operations in the power system where Divine Protections can never outperform Authorities, and Authorities are said to provide the same function as a Divine Protection, but better.

But again, currently no layer for it in the sandbox.

 

[Vietthai96]

Then that is fine then

 

[Zabazab]

It has been applied.

 

[Vietthai96]

Closing the thread