Re:Zero Kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Discussion Thread 8 (aka rem: zero)

[Hala00]

I said that they might stalemate because Satella is a woman so she can't really damage Regulus, though we don't much about her powers so this is an assumption that she uses close powers to the witches she absorbed. I think that Reid can easily beat him. Reinhard can easily beat him. The dragon and Flugel (probably?) can easily beat him though we don't about the extent of their powers. We don't know much about Pandora but I guess that she can beat him? Her reality thingy is a mystery for now. Capella can stalemate against him cause of affinity (their battle would go nowhere) Puck if he learnt of his weakness might be able to defeat him? But Puck in true form is huge so it's hard for him to dodge Regulus's attacks fast enough so it might be Regulus's win after all.


It doesn't matter if her attack is infused with mana if her attack literally bypasses time and space. It doesn't matter what anyone on the outside might try to do since her attack won't be stopped because it doesn't exist in the same dimension and with the same rules as the current world. Her attack has two steps. EMT managed to stop the first step which is attaching the mana thread. The attaching mana thread can be stopped since it doesn't bypass time and space but the attack that follows the attachment of time and space is unstopable. If Shaula managed to attach her thread to Regulus she would one shot him since the fact that he is in a different time wouldn't matter but Shaula can't clear the first step with Regulus (which is attaching the mana thread) since his time stop wouldn't allow her to attach the mana thread.

 

[Hala00]

EMM could not stop Shaula's needles.
That means Regulus cannot stop Shaula's needles if it works the same way as EMM.

What's sure for now is that Regulus' Authority is not the same as EMT.

Regulus's authority is a combination of EMM and EMT. Nothing can reach him, with the condition of having a wife around him. Shaula's needles can pierce through time and space with the condition of attaching her mana thread to the target before, she wouldn't be able to attach her mana thread to Regulus and therefore they would stalemate if she was fast on her feet or Regulus would beat her.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Shaula utilizes several types of needles. Which one of them require her to attach her mana to the target?

 

[Hala00]

Most likely all of them? They only mentioned the mechanism of the one she used against Subaru and the rest.

 

[ZERO7772]

EMT , EMM

too much cringe save me please `

 

[Hala00]

Subaru's naming sense ---> Horrible.


Help mehhh why did my cringey son change the name of the authority of sloth, it's not kewl.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I don't think 'nothing can reach him' is an apt description for Regulus' abilities, considering that Pandora's mind rape and reality warping went right through Regulus' authority as seen in Emilia's past.

Shaula does the exact same thing to Subaru's party when they are trekking through the Auriga Sand Dunes. She kept displacing them and causing them to go mad.

Her ability is very likely to be what's keeping any of the Witch Cults from approaching the Tower for the past 400 years. None of them are immune to her power.

 

[Hala00]

Regulus is immune to mind attacks (as the author mentioned that he can beat Sirius's mind authority and the witch of lust mind authority)

But Pandora can beat Regulus's authority since she probably changed the reality of his authority, tho we really don't know much about Pandora's ability in the first place.

There are two likely reasons to why Regulus didn't approach the tower. Either that he isn't immune to the heavy miasma? (Not really likely since his time is stopped but maybe this paricular miasma is made differently) or he didn't bother to try since his gospel didn't order him. Regulus isn't really interested in reviving Satella from what I have seen.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

All regulus does is give his heart to a female he likes, how exactly does that make that female unable to beat him? I don't remember such a condition. Capella just has insane regen, she couldn't really do anything to regulus he outclasses her in everything, just that she can't die. If regulus's harem is around puck could kill them yes but even without them he can still use his ability for a couple secs, which might be enough as he could one shot puck.

I don't agree with that agurement, i think you have it backwards, it doesn't matter if she can pierce through space time it will still be negated as it uses mana, it's an absolute negation space, it negates everything, that's the point, people use their abilities in re zero by using mana, if you negate that then it doesn't matter what they can do with that mana.

And i still don't agree with that she needs to attach her needles to someones mana to pierce through space-time, it is just a technique she learnt from flugel that she likes to use as it makes it easy for her to hit her targets, again you still aren't addressing if she needed to do that to use her powers, how she can distort space sending people to different locations? And no it's not teleportation.

And as heinkel says, shaula uses several types of needles, the first time she attacked subaru and co. and he used EMM, her needles stopped then she attacked again and the needles kept coming until subaru used EMT, plus also julius was able to block her needles, she doesn't always pierce through space-time.

And still think you are wanking regulus, he isn't untouchable, pandora teleported him back to his harem, his stopped time just allows him to reside in a different dimension.

 

[ZERO7772]

Talking about ability shame after seeing tappei power ranking i wanted to see Oni Ram abilities she would been hax as hell

Shaula >>> Regulus

Chill hala

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

It still shows that Regulus was affected by space manipulation, time manipulation, and mind manipulation.

Shaula herself can also obliterate Sirius Betelgeuse. The girl can be stalemated by Aldebaran.

 

[Hala00]

Since he can place his heart in his enemy if they are female. Normally when fighting Regulus all you need to do is kill his wives and be fast enough so you can dodge his attach and then you can easily beat him but when a female is fighting him without unseen hands even if she kills his wives he can place his heart in her and his immunity would never be defeated.

Capella's Regenerationn authority would make it near impossible for Regulus to defeat her, no? He would cut her and she would still come back but she can't do anything against him so it's a stalemate.

It's not backward since the exact meaning of piercing through time and space is that outside elements cannot affect you, so even if there is a shield that refuses mana based attacks - the Shaula time and space attack won't be stopped since it exists in an entirely different dimension and principle.


Distorting space is different from pierceing through space and they didn't explain it in story. However the EMT attack proves that she needs to have the mana thread attached. I know that she uses different needles but they didn't explain the mechanism of the different needles so there is no point to discuss the topic of other needles.


To say that Shaula can one shot Regulus as a fact when they didn't fight in canon and there is a pretty well supported theory that her attack won't be able to do so in the first place is wrong. I'm all for having a theory that she can one shot him but it isn't proven - same goes for Shaula can easily beat all other sin archbishops. I remember that someone asked Tappei and he said that she is as strong as a sin archbishop and that she isn't stronger than them all. (I don't remember where I heard this so I don't currently have the link) I can't see how Shaula can beat Capella when she can just regan endlessly but then again they didn't explain the authority of Capella either. Maybe even Sirius can put up a good fight since she does have the mind authority thingy.

 

[Hala00]

It still shows that Regulus was affected by space manipulation, time manipulation, and mind manipulation.
Shaula herself can also obliterate Sirius Betelgeuse. The girl can be stalemated by Aldebaran.

He was only affected by Pandora's reality manipulation. Mind manipulation doesn't work against him. I don't know what you mean by time manipulation, no character have time manipulation ability, right? =o

@ZERO7772

Oni Ram would have been great~ There is no proof that Shaula is better than Regulus tho. They never fought against each other so this is only a theory.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea if he is fighting a female he can put his heart in her and thereby can keep using his ability, i knew that, you just made it sound like it somehow made that female unable to resist him or something.

EMT is an absolute negation magic, EMM could already interfere with time and space, why would a superior magic be unable to stop something that can pierce through time and space? It negates everything mana based, in otherwords basically everything that they use in the verse except physically abilities why would it matter if you can pierce through space-time or not, it's still mana based, it's getting negated. And piercing through space time doesn't mean outside elements can't affect you it just means you can pierce through space-time which allows you to be able to pierce through anything, it ignores durability, but again, doesn't matter if you ignore durability or not, it entered a shield in which everything mana based is negated so it got negated.

Sigh why do you keep saying she needs the needles to distort space? She has only been shown piercing through space with the needles when she saw that her attack wasn't working on subaru and co because of EMM, the burden of proof is on you to prove that she needs her needles to manipulate space, this is clearly not the case as she has been shown to distort space without needing the needles, remember the needles appear as light you would think subaru would notice them if she was using them to distort space.

Your theory is pure speculation, what we have here is a statement that says shaula>archbishops, but you are denying it and going so far as to downplay shaula, so that regulus can somehow win, and capella can't beat shaula, she can regen, has deadly dragon blood and has transmutation, but shaula killed a creature in arc 6 that also had ridiculous regen, don't see why she can't do the same here. Don't see why is it so hard to accept shaula>archbishops, she is 400 years old, learned under flugel and regularly spared with a slightly weaker version of reinhard.

 

[Hala00]

Unable to resist him sounds weird xD

Pierces through space and time means that it pierces through anything including shields that try to negate it tho.

You said that EMM didn't manage to stop her earlier? Why did she change her attack?

The statement was in story or in an interview, mind linking? I'm not downplaying her she just has a condition for her attack just like Regulus who have a condition for his shield. I will search for the one that stated that Shaula is as strong as a sin archbishop and not stronger. Can't rememeber where I read it so it's gonna take time.

 

[ZERO7772]

I wonder what hax Ram would had to be able to beat the likes of Regulu and Puck , freaking tappei had to hype a characters doesn't exiset in the story

i really wanted to see Ram vs sehkmet as well what a shame ~

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Now we are just arguing about the semantics of piercing through space-time, you say it pierces through anything regardless of shields that try to negate it, and i say it doesn't cause the shield negates every magic cause it negates mana, what we really need here is translations for EMT and EMM, the same thing for shaula and regulus, arguing is going to get us nowhere, we need more info.

From what i remember, first shaula pierced through emilia's ice wall and julius stopped the attack then she attacked again, but this time subaru used EMM which stopped the attack, shaula attacked again, but EMM wasn't working so he quickly switched to EMT which stopped the attack.

Again what we need is translation, pretty sure it wasn't in an interviews cause i didn't see it in any, so i am guessing it's in arc 6, it's on the re zero wiki, we could ask the admin there where the statement comes from to settle this.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

He was only affected by Pandora's reality manipulation. Mind manipulation doesn't work against him. I don't know what you mean by time manipulation, no character have time manipulation ability, right? =o

Time manipulation is just a subset of reality manipulation. Your argument is just a red herring.


Finally, Pandora gives up controlling Greed and says ['Regulus can't be here. He is resting in his mansion with his harem.']

Greed suddenly disappears, and everything Greed touched is back to normal, even Petelgeuse's arms are back on.


Regulus was mind-controlled by Pandora during the Emilia encounter. That's fact.

Once again, Regulus despite his Authority was owned by space-time manipulation and mind manipulation. Hard facts.

 

[ZERO7772]

Most archbishops are no big deal really they just have weird ability once you discover their weakness any mid tier characters can beat their ass Regulus stand leagues above them and he's amture in fighting

Sloth got beat by julius when he was fighting from 3rd view and ley got his ass kicked by beatrice who is much weaker than before after the contract with subaru Regulus stand way above them but still weaker than Shaula it comes at no suprise just like pegasus said she's 400 years old and was trained under flugel the best magician in the history and even spare with reid to the point forcing him using both hands it's the same guy who would beheaded Regulus i they fought

most of the monters around the tower have high regn and Shaula obliterated them

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well heinkel to be fair every ability could be considered a subset of reality warping, cause reality warping could be used to do anything, depending on the strength of the user. Pandora didn't mind control regulus, she just teleported him back to his mansion and negated all the actions he performed before going back, she didn't attempt to mind control him with her reality warping, however there is no reason she wouldn't be able to, she has already shown that she can affect him with her ability, as for shaula i still think she is above regulus.

 

[ZERO7772]

Shula > sins wasn't in interview it was said in arc 6 she would deal with any of them easily but i don't remember where it was said

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Pandora's ability is direct time manipulation that deletes events which Regulus has caused from the timeline. Regulus has zero defense against this.

 

[ZERO7772]

I asked the admin so now we just need to see later although i am nearly sure he won't remember these was long time ago

Pandora's ability is direct time manipulation that deletes events which Regulus has caused from the timeline. Regulus has zero defense against this.

Agree with heinkel here ~

 

[Hala00]

If it was said in story then it's unreliable subjective information. Since Garfiel said he was the strongest (clearly wrong) it could be Shaula being cocky. Reid can also behead Shaula so that really doesn't prove anything. I don't see Shaula beating Sirius either since she can mind control Shaula but we don't know if Shaula has an ability that can counter that.

Mind controlling doesn't work against Regulus. The writer said that he can beat Sirius who uses mind controlling and The witch of lust who also uses mind controlling. What Pandora is doing is unknown for us but it is reality maniuplation.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Difference between Garfiel hyping himself up to be the strongest and this is we knew what he was saying was bullshit since Reinhardt exist, with Shauna we can believe her since she is 400 years old and has no reason to lie

 

[Hala00]

Beatrice is 400 years old, age isn't everything. She could just be overestimating herself or trying to intimidate them. Unless she fought against them all and won against them all then the information are unreliable.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The burden of proof is on you to prove that regulus can beat shaula, we have several pieces of evidence that says shaula is stronger than regulus, you can't just ignore that and say no without providing proof against what is established.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Lol. Then it simply means Sirius' Authority is way weaker than Pandora's Authority.

You can see evidences of it right here that Pandora had casually stomped Regulus with a wave of her hand.


There are only 4 known surviving Archbishops in Re:Zero. Greed, Gluttony, Lust, and Wrath. If Shaula is weaker than Lust, Regulus, or Sirius, if Gluttony is the only one she can reliably defeat, then what's the whole deal about WoG Shaula being able to defeat ARCHBISHOPs? (I know Gluttony's ability is split into 3 persons, but contextually that's not important)


You have no proof of nothing being able to hurt Regulus when we have clear examples of where something had. If you have evidence of such extraordinary fantasy, bring it here.


Shaula is about as far as you can get from a cocky personality, given that she was scared of someone even just uttering Reid's name within earshot

 

[Hala00]

I'm confused but you mentioned that Subaru changed his attack but how did he have time to change the attack if her attack is fast? Did EMM slow it down or what? Did she herself said that she can bypass time and space or did we deduce that because she bypassed EMM?

EDIT: @Heinkel Astrea

Sirius's authority is weaker because it's mind control not reality control. Regulus is immune to mind control but he isn't immune to Pandora's reality control.

There is no proof that she is stronger than all the archbishops and losing to someone doesn't mean that you are weaker than them, there is something about affinity. Just like how Capella is a bad match to Regulus there are bad matches for Shaula too.

Reid is really powerful and we don't know the context behind that scene. if Shaula didn't fight against the sin archbishops then I can't take her statement for sure.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

"Regulus is immune to mind control"

Where on earth does it state this? Remember, it's positivity that has the burden of proof. I don't have to prove negativity.


And no, it simply means that Shaula does not even remotely consider Sin Archbishops a threat to her mission.

She's the one looking over Satella's seal, after all, so far the most powerful being in the Re:Zero universe. Oddly appropriate to all that Sage hype.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Subaru and co were 10km from the tower and they all got one shotted by shaula a few times, all they saw was a light and then died instantly, the reason subaru was able to react is because he had knowledge of the attack before hand, he knew it was coming so he told beatrice to use EMM, when that wasn't working he told her to use EMT, so it's really more so beatrice's reactions than subaru and if anything subaru being able to do anything at all might be pis but we don't know the scene in details, cause of no translations. And if she can pierce through a barrier that interferes with space-time then she can pierce space-time it's that simple which is also supported by the fact that she can distort space.

Where was it stated regulus is immune to mind control? Of course sirius authority wouldn't work on him, why? Cause he is in a separate dimension unless you can pierce through that dimension, nothings workings besides reality warping of course. Now he is immune to the usual mind control yes, but in fiction there are guys who can mind screw people across dimensions and other planes of reality so no he isn't immune to mind control, just has some resistance.

There is no proof regulus is stronger than shaula, what proof do you have that regulus is stronger other than because his ability? Where is the proof? And i don't mean speculations, proof, we have statements of her being above archbishops plus her being able to fight reid who could behead regulus, plus the fact that she guards freaking satella, one of the strongest person in the verse, plus is over 400 years old and trained under one of the guys who sealed satella, why is it so hard to think she is stronger than regulus?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

A crusch Q%A was translated

Q: Crush has been made public, but once I saw her, I wanted her to walk on me. Is this love?

A: It's love. But she's my bride.

Tappei is a crusch fan, i mean who isn't crusch is best girl

Q: You said that you like Crusch-san, but did you like Crusch-san more when she first appeared, or after she lost her memory? I'm captivated by Crusch-san in the time when she was a beauty wearing men's clothing.

A: I think the hybrid Crusch-sama from the later half of Re: Zero is lovely.

Q: Weren't Crusch-sama's pajamas (Volume 5 illustration) a little too sexy?

A: Crusch-sama is indifferent to wearing clothing like that. Perhaps because she doesn't think of herself as a woman, she doesn't think about the effect her femininity has on those around her. So cute.

Haven't seen much of hybrid crusch so i can't say but crusch wearing male close is oddly sexy, and what pajama's are they talking about, i need a link.

Q: It was said that Crusch-sama wiped out all the followers of the Great Rabbit in her territory, but was a misunderstanding that occured becase the nature of the Great Rabbit (infinite reproduction) was not generally known? Or did she actually wipe them out?

A: It was a misunderstanding. I think I'll write about that in an extra chapter about Crusch (her first battle).

Always found it odd that crusch defeated the rabbit when it can divide itself infinetly, where is that extra chapter though?

 

[ZERO7772]

So few things : i fixed the order of the characters it goes like this now :

Rei-chan

Satella-tan

Pandora

shaula

Regu-dead

lovley sloth

2- Why is ekidona the highest between the witches ? wasn't she the weakest beside minerva ?

3- when was it said Shekmet < puck + Roswaal ? i recall pegasus once said she would obliterate them both

4-the hell is worng with AL's age ? 18+ really ? it's like saying he wa infant when he was summend pretty sure it was mention he is grown up man he's 20+ to 30+ and i can't really bring the source but IIRC it was said AL was about the sameg age as subaru when he was summend

5-and i think we may add "possibly country level " to Regulus wasn't said he destroyed country in the past ? we're not sure how destroyed these cities in the first place

 

[ZERO7772]

The mayonnaise chapter is getting adopted by the artist of the second manga " Apparently when he first meet the person responsible for the serialization he personally requested to be able to do this chapter so he could draw Rem's smile." < from 4chan

 

[Hala00]

But the needles are really fast, I can't imagine Beatrice (or any human really, except blessings) reacting fast enough to activate EMT?

Because this happening that Beatrice activated the EMT right after the EMM is debunking my theory since it seems like Shaula didn't take the time to reattach her mana thread.

Dog Rem is so fitting. Now if only they would adapt arc 4 instead of more Rem side stories~

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Zero I never placed the list in order from strongest to weakest, because it would be a pain to do for mid tiers, i just added characters to the list as i made their profiles, echidna is the weakest witch well she is tied with carmillia, minerva is the weakest.

Sehkmet is stated to be stronger than all the other witches and be able to defeat puck and roswaal i think, pretty sure an interview or something said sehkmet>puck.

I just said 18+ for al cause i don't know how old he really is, he was summound to the world 18 years ago, so he is over 18 years old but don't know by how much.

Zero, we have already been over country level regulus, it was only said that he killed his entire family and everyone in the his country, it doesn't say he destroyed the country.

@Hala As i said before all we have are summaries of the events, don't really know the exact details, however from what i remember of summaries it said that shaula attacked with her needles, but they weren't being stopped by EMM, then beatrice used EMT and then they stopped, there should be a summary of it somewhere on pastebin.

 

[ZERO7772]

Mid tier are pain yeah but high and top tier are not so hard i will add the high tier next though i am not sure are the witches above beatrice ?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Already rearranged the high tiers, as for beatrice being above the witches, doubt it, don't see her being above her creator echidna who short of minerva is the weakest witch tied with carmillia, so no she isn't above the witches.

Also 4 chan chapter 100 is out.

 

[ZERO7772]

How about Oni Ram vs Shaula ?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Don't know, or care since oni ram is just a what if and doesn't actually exist, would probably be a close fight though i guess.