Ram minor speed downgrade, very little

[Passersby]

It's an analytical feat of being able to see through such a fast opponent. That's why the feat is listed in the intelligence section and not the speed section.


This, this phrase right here. Why does it apply in Emilia's case but not Ram's? Both can very easily just be called aim dodging.

because of the sequence of events

first case is

emilia took the girl-> took a step back -> moved out of the way -> the FTL attack then started moving

in ram's case

it's

the attack starts -> she dodges it

the fact that she has to even dodge implies the attack was threatening her, which means she moved out of the way of an attack that's 180 times faster than she is as it was moving towards her, which is bs

That literally does not matter when Garfiel can't aim for the life of him, is up against a skillgod like Ram, and is only attacking in straight lines.

her skills is no factor here no matter how many times you mention how much of a "skillgod" she is, no matter how skilled a person is he can't dodge something 180 faster than he is in CQC with just those skills


if you mean that garf was just flailing around wasn't aiming towards her and was an idiot, so she took oppotunity to escape from him, then sure

this still won't be battle int either way however, since 1 seeing trought the attacks of an opponent 180 times faster than you are is not battle int, it's preception speed, which according yo you, hers when doing this is human level which is invalidates whatever excuses you try to bring when defending this and 2 the opponent is an idiot flailing around, dodging it is more luck based than anything even remotely skill related


which means the entire feat is still bs, you're arguing for something that doesn't make a lick of sens for the sake of it


just drop this feat

 

[CloverDragon03]

Only way you are dodging is if there's a delay between the attacks that can be reacted, even if it's fiction dodging with a 130x gap is an incomprehensible situation not just one impossible by real life rules, the "it's fiction" argument really shouldn't apply here

I agree with this. You can't just handwave literally anything by saying "it's fiction"

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

because of the sequence of events

first case is

emilia took the girl-> took a step back -> moved out of the way -> the FTL attack then started moving

in ram's case

it's

the attack starts -> she dodges it

there is no implication that the attack has already started in her direction

the fact that she has to even dodge implies the attack was threatening her, which means she moved out of the way of an attack that's 180 times faster than she is as it was moving towards her, which is bs

or. it implies that she predicted where he would start attacking due to reading how he would strike before he even started to attack. a Feat which we know is possible due to Clairavoyance's description and if an idiot tried to attack Ram is probably how they would end up. she AP's her opponents before they start attacking due to reading how they will move

her skills is no factor here no matter how many times you mention how much of a "skillgod" she is, no matter how skilled a person is he can't dodge something 180 faster than he is in CQC with just those skills

they can if they already read their opponent before they start attacking.

if you mean that garf was just flailing around wasn't aiming towards her and was an idiot, so she took oppotunity to escape from him, then sure

this still won't be battle int either way however, since 1 seeing trought the attacks of an opponent 180 times faster than you are is not battle int, it's preception speed, which according yo you, hers when doing this is human level which is invalidates whatever excuses you try to bring when defending this and 2 the opponent is an idiot flailing around, dodging it is more luck based than anything even remotely skill related

no? it was explicitly stated that a feat of talent and intuition had occured which implies some sort of active role on her part. aim dodging makes perfect sense here.

which means the entire feat is still bs, you're arguing for something that doesn't make a lick of sens for the sake of it


just drop this feat

it makes perfect sense

 

[CloverDragon03]

no? it was explicitly stated that a feat of talent and intuition had occured which implies some sort of active role on her part. aim dodging makes perfect sense here.

Okay but again... Any way you slice it, dodging attacks from someone over 100x faster than you via "talent and intuition" is just not something that makes actual sense. You'd need to be super far away from the attacker for this to make sense, but no, this seems to be straight-up close quarters combat

it makes perfect sense

It does not. Quite the opposite, in fact.

And "it's fiction" is not a viable excuse on its own.

 

[Chariot190]

I get aimdodging but like, this dude would have been able to throw like 100 attacks in the time it took her to dodge even 1.

Even if she predicts one and aimdodges, and even if she predicted the following hundred attacks, the argument she physically can not move in time to avoid them all still holds up.

Aimdodging an attack that much faster is fine, the issue is doing it in repeated succession. There needs to be a huge gap between every attack for this to be possible.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I get aimdodging but like, this dude would have been able to throw like 100 attacks in the time it took her to dodge even 1.

Even if she predicts one and aimdodges, and even if she predicted the following hundred attacks, the argument she physically can not move in time to avoid them all still holds up.

Aimdodging an attack that much faster is fine, the issue is doing it in repeated succession. There needs to be a huge gap between every attack for this to be possible.

he isnt actually aiming at her, all she needs to do is to find the perfect space from which she can retreat to. In fact, its told to us right before this happened that the front of his chest was a kind of blindspot if he is in his beast form. She would just need to predict all 100 of his attacks and where they will land and she can easily escape if there is even a minor area for her to slip out of

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah no, it doesn't matter if she's predicting all 100+ attacks he could throw in the time it took her to move even half her body distance.

If even one of those attacks occupy the space she is in, she's getting hit, she physically can not dodge it even if she knows it's coming.

And if he's actually so dumb that attacking hundreds of times means not even one attack would go toward her, that isn't even a skill feat as he's straight up just missing due to his own stupidity and somehow hitting air hundreds of times while he's effectively statuing her.

The former is physically impossible, the latter may as well not even be worth mentioning. Either way.

 

[Passersby]

there is no implication that the attack has already started in her direction

argue that the sequence of events happened as the FTL attack was moving towards them and you get SoL emilia, aka an outlier

that was the best interpretation

or. it implies that she predicted where he would start attacking due to reading how he would strike before he even started to attack. a Feat which we know is possible due to Clairavoyance's description and if an idiot tried to attack Ram is probably how they would end up. she AP's her opponents before they start attacking due to reading how they will move

ignores the fact that his attacks moves 1,8 meters as soon as she moves a cm, and her clairvoyance works in a way where the attack has to start before she can know about it in order to read where their strenght is going, something she can't do, because her preception speed is human level and her opponent is supersonic

and as charriot put it

Yeah no, it doesn't matter if she's predicting all 100+ attacks he could throw in the time it took her to move even half her body distance.

If even one of those attacks occupy the space she is in, she's getting hit, she physically can not dodge it even if she knows it's coming.

And if he's actually so dumb that attacking hundreds of times means not even one attack would go toward her, that isn't even a skill feat as he's straight up just missing due to his own stupidity and somehow hitting air hundreds of times while he's effectively statuing her.

The former is physically impossible, the latter may as well not even be worth mentioning. Either way.

they can if they already read their opponent before they start attacking.

no, not really they cannot even if they have future sight,

no? it was explicitly stated that a feat of talent and intuition had occured which implies some sort of active role on her part. aim dodging makes perfect sense here.

it does not, this entire damn argument is here because it doesn't, you can wank her skill and clairvoyance to oblivion and maker her her have the ability to see the future 100 attacks he will make with 100% accuracy and she still would not be able to physically dode any of them due to the difference in speed

there is no skill involved in any of this, this feat is just bullshit

what's next? characters are now dodging opponents nonillion times faster than they are with "pure skill"?

it makes perfect sense

it quire literally doesn't

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bump

 

[Fezzih_007]

Bump

 

[Passersby]

Bump

send this to thread mods

i've got 3 notifications and they were all bumps from you lmao

 

[Zabazab]

The complete and utter rejection of the explanation given by the novel is so incredibly strange. And don't act like the use of the WN explanation is not an option, given it is secondary canon that isn't contradicted here. We have several profiles that are nearly all WN content.

He felt stupid now for having doubted Ram’s pre-battle remarks. Her statements about purposely getting Garfiel to transform now held definite credibility.

As a beast, the power of the transformed Garfiel is overwhelming, but its advantage lay in situations where he’s fighting multiple opponents. His very mass is a weapon in itself, and even against single individuals, there was no reason he should lose.

But, when his opponent is someone with inhuman combat abilities, it’s a different story. His cumbersome body becomes a target, his powerful, tree-felling claws are fraught with openings, and his devastating strength leaves him clumsy and unbalanced, unable to shift between attack and defense.

Calmly analyzing the situation would make all of this become clear.

However, this simple solution would only be valid if an individual of overwhelming ability was present to carry it out. - Arc 4 Chapter 109

Additionally, we see literally right after she barely dodges some swipes with intuition/talent, that she's unable to avoid another one normally, as Garf is no longer trying to hit someone in his blind spot (underneath him) and is now fully on the offense rather than trying to switch back from defense to offense.

This time, the ferocious tiger did not let the opportunity slip. Opening its maw wide, fangs bared, it leaped to the front. And then—

“———!!!!” Otto, his fist clenching the crystal, let up a ferocious roar unthinkable from his slender throat.

It was the same roar a fiendish beast erupted with at the moment it began to consume its prey. This was the power of Otto’s Blessing, which Ram had heard of beforehand.

The power of his Blessing allowed him to converse with any creature; with it, Otto was using bestial words to speak to the beast that had lost its mind. Ram did not know what meaning the roar held.

For but a single moment, there was hesitance in the ferocious tiger’s movements, with that slight pause giving Ram just enough opportunity to evade the blow. - Volume 13, Chapter 5

 

[CloverDragon03]

None of this actually addresses the physical impossibility of what's happening

 

[Fezzih_007]

The complete and utter rejection of the explanation given by the web novel is so incredibly strange.

You know is not just that.
Is also the fact that Ram is dodging attacks for a character 100x faster than her.
The explanation you giving just don't explain the Impossible.

 

[Passersby]

The complete and utter rejection of the explanation given by the novel is so incredibly strange. And don't act like the use of the WN explanation is not an option, given it is secondary canon that isn't contradicted here. We have several profiles that are nearly all WN content.

because all explanations quite literally suck, none of them addresses the 180 times speed difference the fact that he can attack her more than 100 times over before she can move enough half the required distance to dodge and that this feat is physically impossible to perform unless the guy missed all his attacks on purpose or was stupid enough to miss all of them, it doesn't matter how clumsy and stupid he is he should 100% hit her given his size range and speed, if he can't then this isn't a skill nor battle int feat to begin with, it's just him being an idiot and ram taking advantage of that to run away

Additionally, we see literally right after she barely dodges some swipes with intuition/talent, that she's unable to avoid another one normally, as Garf is no longer trying to hit someone in his blind spot (underneath him) and is now fully on the offense rather than trying to switch back from defense to offense.

define what "intuition and talent" even mean in this context without it being your headcanon in this scenario

not to mention making things up to get this accepted for whatever reason,

the "barely" was never mentioned anywhere here, also it wasn't "some swipes" it was "coutless claw swipes" yes, the author said a normal girl with normal human stats "dodged" coutless claw swipes from a supersonic characater with a fvking injured knee


i will say it again, this feat is bs, yeet it away and kill it with fire, in the first place you can't see attacks 180 times faster than you are, and even if you can, for some reaosn, with the pathetic reaction time of 0,25 second a regular human has for visual stimuli as well as the slow as hell info analysis speed she would have assuming she has regular human stats, she ain't analyzing anything, she is going to die before she even knows what's going to happen because....well, yk, her opponent is supersonic and she has average human stats

there is nothing to defend this with, stop sending LN and WN scans when none of them address the point being criticized

 

[Zabazab]

there is nothing to defend this with, stop sending LN and WN scans when none of them address the point being criticized

Are you genuinely arguing that the Novel's own explanation of how the difference is physical ability was nullified isn't enough for you? This is honestly the first time I've seen a feat justified within the work so as to not clash with internal scaling get rejected out of... disagreeing with the work?

Within the work, all of the preperation that was made in order to allow a resistance against Garfiel was enough to close the gap between him and the non-combatants. The impossibility is made possible due to these efforts. Honestly this reaction to Ram's feat is exactly how the story would have wanted the reader to think: that Ram ever standing up to Garf is impossible, that she stands no chance, before pulling the rug out from under you.

Seeing all the prep Ram & Otto made and then saying "Well I don't think that's enough to somewhat put up a fight" is very strange from how I see it. Garfiel 1) being weakened by pre-battle damage, 2) having his senses ****** with by extremely powerful pollen & bug bites, and 3) being transformed which reduces him to a mindless state, was objectively enough to close the gap, given the fact that it did close the gap. And they still couldn't even beat Garfiel, he ultimately rolled them.

the pathetic reaction time of 0,25 second a regular human has for visual stimuli as well as the slow as hell info analysis speed she would have assuming she has regular human stats

Given the fact that actually fully running out of mana = death and the text specifies she ran out of mana for physical enhancement, I'm fine if a compromise that she was just using mental enhancement is reached.

 

[CloverDragon03]

There’s legitimately no reconciling this feat though. Someone with average human speed objectively cannot dodge attacks from a Supersonic character in CQC through pure “intuition and talent.” The only way this could happen is if Garfiel was just being an idiot and straight up missing her, at which point this wouldn’t be a combat IQ feat, it’s just Garfiel being dumb

 

[Fezzih_007]

Are you genuinely arguing that the Novel's own explanation of how the difference is physical ability was nullified isn't enough for you? This is honestly the first time I've seen a feat justified within the work so as to not clash with internal scaling get rejected out of... disagreeing with the work?

Yeah, he don't believe that the explanation of Ram dodging attacks 100x faster than her by the web novel is sufficient.
Not sure why you so confused, that happens time in CRT.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah, he don't believe that the explanation of Ram dodging attacks 100x faster than her by the web novel is sufficient.
Not sure why you so confused, that happens time in CRT.

that appears to be a clear false argument as we already take WN as secondary canon.

 

[Passersby]

Are you genuinely arguing that the Novel's own explanation of how the difference is physical ability was nullified isn't enough for you?

i've literally been addressing why it's not enough the entire time and you've yet to give a substantial reason as to why it should be other than "it just is, just bleive it"

and since you're claming the 180 times speed difference was nullified,does that imply that garf here is so weakened his stats are now low enough for ram/ a normal human in stats that has an injured knee to see and dodge is countless attacks from?

how low are we talking and is there anything in the scene to prove his stats are that weakened?

because either ways this makes the "ram dodges attacks 180 times faster than her with pure talent and intuition" wrong

This is honestly the first time I've seen a feat justified within the work so as to not clash with internal scaling get rejected out of... disagreeing with the work?

the work is being stupid because it proposed the physically impossible feat in the first place, so i disagreed with it

if a work declaires "this character can dodge every single droplet in a heavy rain storm with pure talent and intuition" i will disagree with it because that's bs

same if it said "this character can dodge countless attacks nonillion times faster than he is trought talent and intuition in CQC even with an injured knee"


that's also stupid, same with this feat, it's stupid and why you're still defending it is beyond me

Given the fact that actually fully running out of mana = death and the text specifies she ran out of mana for physical enhancement, I'm fine if a compromise that she was just using mental enhancement is reached.

that was never specified nor even hinted at....you kinda just came up with it. what was specified is she did it via "talent and intuition", and is mental enhancement even a thing in the verse?
was it shown that amping only your preception speed via mana is possible?
plus that still doesn't address the difference in stats

this is honestly just getting repetitive at this point

can someone just get mod attention here?
this is pretty much done, it just needs one more vote and it can be applied

 

[Fezzih_007]

that appears to be a clear false argument as we already take WN as secondary canon.

And the explanation is simply not enough to justify this feat.

 

[Fezzih_007]

can someone just get mod attention here?
this is pretty much done, it just needs one more vote and it can be applied

Gonna ask on the Content revision promotion thread now.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

OH MY GOD

FOR **** SAKES

WHAT THE ACTUAL ****

SCRAP THE ******* FEAT

WHY MUST WE USE IT!! WHY?!?! IS THAT THE ONLY FEAT IN RE ZERO!!!!

WE CAN MAKE BETTER USE OF OUR TIME.

AHHHHHHHH

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

i've literally been addressing why it's not enough the entire time and you've yet to give a substantial reason as to why it should be other than "it just is, just bleive it"

and since you're claming the 180 times speed difference was nullified,does that imply that garf here is so weakened his stats are now low enough for ram/ a normal human in stats that has an injured knee to see and dodge is countless attacks from?

how low are we talking and is there anything in the scene to prove his stats are that weakened?

its not stat decrease more like sensory deprivation

because either ways this makes the "ram dodges attacks 180 times faster than her with pure talent and intuition" wrong

disagree

the work is being stupid because it proposed the physically impossible feat in the first place, so i disagreed with it

if a work declaires "this character can dodge every single droplet in a heavy rain storm with pure talent and intuition" i will disagree with it because that's bs

Reinhard has that exact feat?

same if it said "this character can dodge countless attacks nonillion times faster than he is trought talent and intuition in CQC even with an injured knee"

Ram nee sama truly is the greatest!

that's also stupid, same with this feat, it's stupid and why you're still defending it is beyond me

your arguements seem equally stupid to me ngl

that was never specified nor even hinted at....you kinda just came up with it. what was specified is she did it via "talent and intuition", and is mental enhancement even a thing in the verse?
was it shown that amping only your preception speed via mana is possible?

yes. Subaru has done that multiple times in the series

plus that still doesn't address the difference in stats

Aim dodging every single of his attacks before they begin because he is just too stupid and gives her enough room to move around and dodge his attacks even with the massive speed ddifference

this is honestly just getting repetitive at this point

agree

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

And the explanation is simply not enough to justify this feat.

it is? nerfing his senses and then turning him into a mindless beast probably helped Ram a lot by making her being able to predict the shit out of him

 

[Fezzih_007]

it is? nerfing his senses and then turning him into a mindless beast probably(Lmao. probably) helped Ram a lot by making her being able to predict the shit out of him

Is not, because she still dodging attacks 100x faster than her.
And the scan used to the feat don't say she doing any predicting.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Might as well too.

its not stat decrease more like sensory deprivation

Which would not help Ram dodge attacks 100x faster than her in anyway.

Reinhard has that exact feat?

So?

Ram nee sama truly is the greatest!

She is! Not enough trought.

your arguements seem equally stupid to me ngl

Me, every time SatellaTheWoE makes a argument be like:

yes. Subaru has done that multiple times in the series

He did. And just help him perceive the attacks, not dodge countless swips that comes from you 100x faster than.

Aim dodging every single of his attacks before they begin because he is just too stupid and gives her enough room to move around and dodge his attacks even with the massive speed ddifference

100x speed difference.
And the scan don't say she is Aimdodging.

agree

Me too.

 

[VortechsTG]

I know the Re:ZERO supporters are kinda tired of discussing this, so please don't repeat arguments.

YOU are the one repeating the arguments here.

This whole argument is so ******* stupid in the first place. We have a very explicit feat and the arguments against it always just end up at "B-But it's physically impossible" as if we aren't literally talking about magical characters in a fictional story. The same story mind you where characters can use a coat jacket or chopsticks so skillfully that they are not just as sharp as but sharper than a normal sword.

I am so tired of this shit. I should Not be that hard to understand.

 

[CloverDragon03]

"It's fiction" is only a viable excuse when supported by something else, rather than being your sole excuse

 

[Chariot190]

literally talking about magical characters in a fictional story.

Would now be a bad time to point out Ram didn't have any magic at all in that instance and that's the whole crux of why this is a problem to begin with?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

"It's fiction" is only a viable excuse when supported by something else, rather than being your sole excuse

Thats the thing. It isn't the only arguement but a counter to the physically impossible arguement. If it hadnt been properly backed by numerous other factors then it would have been an outlier

Would now be a bad time to point out Ram didn't have any magic at all in that instance and that's the whole crux of why this is a problem to begin with?

So? We are talking about impossible skill here. Reid doesn't use magic to cut pesudo black holes, concepts or Space-time. The point is that things being unrealistic in the story setting is normal due to it being fiction

YOU are the one repeating the arguments here.

This whole argument is so ***** stupid in the first place. We have a very explicit feat and the arguments against it always just end up at "B-But it's physically impossible" as if we aren't literally talking about magical characters in a fictional story. The same story mind you where characters can use a coat jacket or chopsticks so skillfully that they are not just as sharp as but sharper than a normal sword.

I am so tired of this shit. I should Not be that hard to understand.

I 100% agree with this

 

[VortechsTG]

Would now be a bad time to point out Ram didn't have any magic at all in that instance and that's the whole crux of why this is a problem to begin with?

She didn't have mana but she still had an od and a gate. Already humans in the ReZero world are not the same as irl humans but Ram is also not even a human in ReZero.

Their skill which is the kind of supernatural ability I was refering to isn't dependent on mana anyway.

 

[Chariot190]

So? We are talking about impossible skill here.

No we aren't? We're talking about strictly the impossible, that or a dumbass cat.

Reid doesn't use magic to cut pesudo black holes, concepts or Space-time.

I don't think I could care less even if I tried what an unrelated false equivalence has to do with this. Chalk it up to hax, stats, whatever, that is not the same as an alleged "human" girl doing what transpired here.

The point is that things being unrealistic in the story setting is normal due to it being fiction

This isn't unrealistic, it's straight-up impossible.
In order for this feat to transpire the way you are trying to claim, it would indirectly cause her to not be 180x slower. Otherwise, she could not physically do it even if she predicted it was coming.

The only options for this scene to work is 1. Cat is so dumb that he swung and missed her hundreds of times all while she wasn't even moving because she couldn't move in time even if she wanted. And as such, isn't a skill feat worth mentioning. 2. She actually isn't 180x slower and as such this feat is grossly blown out of proportion and probably not even worth indexing given she's just dodging a dumb cat. 3. There is no 3, she actually is 180x slower, she physically can not dodge, and Garf ain't so stupid he's swinging at nothing hundreds of times (i'd actually be thousands given it's nearly 200 swings each "dodge" she could perform), feat bad, that's that.

Either way you cut it, the feat is nothing.

She didn't have mana but she still had an od and a gate. Already humans in the ReZero world are not the same as irl humans but Ram is also not even a human in ReZero.

I'm aware that she isn't a human but an oni or whatever, but the argument is that she had average IRL human-level stats, and as such she could "dodge" attacks 180x above her via skill.
Having an Od and a gate, in this case, wouldn't have affected her physical speed, and if it did, she wasn't actually dodging attacks 180x above here, meaning people have been blowing out a whatever feat way out of proportion, and if it doesn't effect speed, it circles back around into the crux of the issue. Aka, the above.

 

[VortechsTG]

No we aren't? We're talking about strictly the impossible, that or a dumbass cat.

I don't think I could care less even if I tried what an unrelated false equivalence has to do with this. Chalk it up to hax, stats, whatever, that is not the same as an alleged "human" girl doing what transpired here.

This isn't unrealistic, it's straight-up impossible.
In order for this feat to transpire the way you are trying to claim, it would indirectly cause her to not be 180x slower. Otherwise, she could not physically do it even if she predicted it was coming.

The only options for this scene to work is 1. Cat is so dumb that he swung and missed her hundreds of times all while she wasn't even moving because she couldn't move in time even if she wanted. And as such, isn't a skill feat worth mentioning. 2. She actually isn't 180x slower and as such this feat is grossly blown out of proportion and probably not even worth indexing given she's just dodging a dumb cat. 3. There is no 3, she actually is 180x slower, she physically can not dodge, and Garf ain't so stupid he's swinging at nothing hundreds of times (i'd actually be thousands given it's nearly 200 swings each "dodge" she could perform), feat bad, that's that.

Either way you cut it, the feat is nothing.

I'm aware that she isn't a human but an oni or whatever, but the argument is that she had average IRL human-level stats, and as such she could "dodge" attacks 180x above her via skill.
Having an Od and a gate, in this case, wouldn't have affected her physical speed, and if it did, she wasn't actually dodging attacks 180x above here, meaning people have been blowing out a whatever feat way out of proportion, and if it doesn't effect speed, it circles back around into the crux of the issue. Aka, the above.

It just doesn't sound to me like you are capable of understanding the argument if your takeaway from the Reid examples is that they are irrelevant.

This entire message in general is just you begging the claim. There is no actual response to why something physically impossible cannot happen in a series where the power system is partially defined by characters being able to do physically impossible things.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

No we aren't? We're talking about strictly the impossible, that or a dumbass cat.

I don't think I could care less even if I tried what an unrelated false equivalence has to do with this. Chalk it up to hax, stats, whatever, that is not the same as an alleged "human" girl doing what transpired here.

Reid does all of that with skill. He Is so skilled that he can cut ehatever he wants with anything he wants

This isn't unrealistic, it's straight-up impossible.
In order for this feat to transpire the way you are trying to claim, it would indirectly cause her to not be 180x slower. Otherwise, she could not physically do it even if she predicted it was coming.

The only options for this scene to work is 1. Cat is so dumb that he swung and missed her hundreds of times all while she wasn't even moving because she couldn't move in time even if she wanted. And as such, isn't a skill feat worth mentioning. 2. She actually isn't 180x slower and as such this feat is grossly blown out of proportion and probably not even worth indexing given she's just dodging a dumb cat. 3. There is no 3, she actually is 180x slower, she physically can not dodge, and Garf ain't so stupid he's swinging at nothing hundreds of times (i'd actually be thousands given it's nearly 200 swings each "dodge" she could perform), feat bad, that's that.

OR that she predicted all of his attacks and aim dodged them by predicting all of his swings that he will make

Your next words will be that is physically impossible because she cant move fast enough and you will try to repeat the arguement
To that i will answer that Garfiel is bestial and thus is below even an amateur in terms of combat skill and thus Ram could easily predict every single of his attacks that he could make and find the places where he wouldn't hit her and dodge from there

Either way you cut it, the feat is nothing.

It does but you are just in denial

 

[Chariot190]

Reid does all of that with skill. He Is so skilled that he can cut ehatever he wants with anything he wants

Ok? And we call that hax. "but it's ski-", no it's hax. Drop it, we aren't even talking about him.

OR that she predicted all of his attacks and aim dodged them by predicting all of his swings that he will make

Impossible, she can not physically move her body in the time it takes him to land a hit. You keep ignoring that. It'd be like if I put a gun to your head, pulled the trigger, fired the bullet, and you managed to dodge the supersonic bullet by moving your body despite the fact I had it pressed to your skull, and the bullet already fired. It doesn't matter if you know it's coming, you physically can not dodge it, and if you DO dodge it, then by direct correlation you are not 180x slower than that bullet.

Your next words will be that is physically impossible because she cant move fast enough and you will try to repeat the arguement

Goddamn right, I'll say it however many times it needs to be said, nothing you said, even below, is good enough of a rebuttal.

To that i will answer that Garfiel is bestial and thus is below even an amateur in terms of combat skill and thus Ram could easily predict every single of his attacks that he could make and find the places where he wouldn't hit her and dodge from there

Not good enough, she could predict the next 100 attacks before any of them come out, and she could even aimdodge the first one through skill, but then what?
Even if she knows what the next 99 attacks will be, she physically cannot move her body before they come out and hit her, and even if dozens miss because he's stupid, as long as 1 of them among the hundreds he's going to be throwing before she can so much as move half her own body distance hits her, she's dead.
The only way she could physically do so is if she wasn't 180x slower, and if she is that slow, well see this whole thread of people telling you you're objectively wrong.
The alternative is that bro's so stupid and mindless that he's missing hundreds of attacks simply due to his own fault and hitting air while she's effectively frozen.

Once again, either way you cut it, the feat is nothing.

It just doesn't sound to me like you are capable of understanding the argument if your takeaway from the Reid examples is that they are irrelevant.

His shit isn't a paradox. But again, false equilavence.

This entire message in general is just you begging the claim. There is no actual response to why something physically impossible cannot happen in a series where the power system is partially defined by characters being able to do physically impossible things.

Basic grade 1 math?
You do realize if she dodges them, she isn't 180x slower right? As her body moved from Point A to Point B over a certain distance within a certain timeframe which would then result in a speed different from her alleged basic human values that is why this feat in question is paraded around to begin with.

"She did the impossible", ok cool.
That isn't the issue, the issue is that her dodging them and being 180x slower isn't compatible, because if one is true, the other cannot be, under the conditions presented. Like not for debate level of shit.

If she dodged them, she would have had to move her body enough to dodge the strike to begin with, and if she did so, multiple attacks in a row, even 1 every 10 attacks, she would, in turn, become not average human in speed, as she moved a set distance in such a small timeframe that would result in the speed of said dodge to not be 180x slower than Garf.
Nobody gives a shit she's dodging supersonic attacks, what people have issue with is the claim she dodged a bunch while apparently being 180x slower, as in order to do that in CQC you WILL be a certain speed.

To give you an example, this would be like arguing that Dude A is only human level in speed, which is why his running around the earth in 1 second is impressive and that it's ok because it's supposed to be impossible for Dude A to do that.
The issue here isn't the impossibility of the scenario (Nobody gives a **** that Krillin can blow up a planet, that just makes him 5-B instead of 10-B), but rather the fact Dude A sure as hell isn't human level in speed if he just whipped out a MHS movement feat, that's the problem with Ram's feat. Her dodging the attacks would make her not human level in speed, and thus 180x slower is impossible as otherwise she could not do it. So saying "wow she's so skilled, she can dodge attacks 180x faster than her in CQC", simply doesn't work.

The alternative is she wasn't actually 180x slower, or this dude just hit nothing through fault of his own a 100 times every second.

 

[Andytrenom]

Here are my thoughts, we allow stuff that can't happen in the real world but that doesn't mean we should take logically inconsistent feats seriously

The problem here is that if you take this statement seriously and try to imagine a scenario where a character is dodging something 100s of times faster with skill without the faster character having telegraphs and being incapable of changing their movements according to the slower character, you will fail. It's not just impossible by physics, something like this can't reasoned away in a hypothetical situation where the laws are different

Basically statements like these are words without meaning, you can say them but any attempt to logically follow through with them fails

Or at least it can't be reasoned away without adding weaknesses to the faster character that severely harms the impressiveness of the feat

 

[Passersby]

i have gotten food poisoning and the arguments for ram here are legit maki;g it worse

Reinhard has that exact feat?

god damn it, another character with BS feats, i tought only touhou had this kinda shit,

OH MY GOD

FOR ***** SAKES

WHAT THE ACTUAL *****

SCRAP THE ***** FEAT

WHY MUST WE USE IT!! WHY?!?! IS THAT THE ONLY FEAT IN RE ZERO!!!!

WE CAN MAKE BETTER USE OF OUR TIME.

AHHHHHHHH

YES, YOU GO ARNOLD! TELL EM WHAT'S RIGHT!!!


edit: charriot, if you see this, thank you for taking over, much appreciated

 

[Passersby]

Here are my thoughts, we allow stuff that can't happen in the real world but that doesn't mean we should take logically inconsistent feats seriously

The problem here is that if you take this statement seriously and try to imagine a scenario where a character is dodging something 100s of times faster with skill without the faster character having telegraphs and being incapable of changing their movements according to the slower character, you will fail. It's not just impossible by physics, something like this can't reasoned away in a hypothetical situation where the laws are different

Basically statements like these are words without meaning, you can say them but any attempt to logically follow through with them fails

Or at least it can't be reasoned away without adding weaknesses to the faster character that severely harms the impressiveness of the feat

you could have just quoted my post and be done with it...

would have made me proud 2

people seem to like using these arguments a lot

to properly explain why the argument anything goes in fiction is wrong

• fictional setting

• world building

In this case/for the sake of our argument, we are talking about the part of worldbuilding related to the fictional universe's physics.


-wiki definition

Worldbuilding is the process of constructing an imaginary world associated with a fictional universe, developing an imaginary setting with coherent qualities is a a key aspect when writing a story and it often involves the creation of geography, a backstory, power system, species, inhabitants, technology history ect

world building is a fascinating aspect in literature since as long as you're good enough it can have no limits and it can encompass quite the diverse settings the world could encompass different planets spanning vast distances of space multiverses kingdomes or even be limited in scope to a single small village, the bigger and the world the more mysteries behind it and the deeper it's lore is the better the world building is, but that's beside the point


-wiki defintion

there is also what we called inferred world building where authors allow the readers to figure out the details of the fictional world which contains the fictional media they're consuming

what people ignore is this



this goes with everything, anime, manga, VN; movies etc. The author puts various hints and detailes in the story and the reader has to put together the puzzle pieces if some are missin, this is why theories exist and they keep the readers interested curious in the fictional story they're reading, that's why every reason should be analyzed before saying something is inconsistent an outlier, complete utter nonsens etc

let's set out the definition of a fictonal universe first

• fictional universe

Within this fictional universe the characters/inhavitant perform actions that we called feats, a term used whenever a character performs an action that gives us information about his stats, LS AP speed INT range skills etc

keeping that in mind, the author has to create new characters, abilities ,settings or rules in the universe first before saying anything about/ giving any character in his fictionam story any abilities, He cant just make stuff up for established characters, for example, he can't suddenly say "rem had the ability to pause time for 60 minutes ever since VOL1 and she could have used it whenever she wanted" , that would just be ignored as utter nonsens

creator statements dont always supersede their work as It laregely depends on if the statement makes sense for that universe, in which case the fictional work should be checked for accuracy and for how consistent it is with the statement, the basis of how matter behaves in the re: zero world is the same as in our universe through the world building provided, so what's physcaly impossible here is also physically impossible there unless there is something in the fictional universe in re zero to prove otherwise, such as dodging attacks 180 times faster than you are....like really, just give out any explanation other than "it's fiction, everything goes", use feats abilites context power system, anything




basically don't use the "it's fiction, everything goes" argument, it's bs especially considering we use reality to explain fiction, we use physics, measurements , math etc to properly index characters which is unavoidable because that's the foundation for the concept of worldbuilding and is what determines the way matter behaves in that ficntional uni

This is why we always use real-life calculations and observations no matter how many times a person says, "she can dodge a heavy rain storm because it's fiction" or "she can dodge attacks septillion times faster than her with pure skill because it's fiction" it won't add anything to your point, matter in a fictional world as well as it's laws and physics is the same at the basic level as matter in our world. Some of the fictional aspects that authors add in their fictional universe such as KI chakra magic mana etc just has different properties which allow for the supernatural to happen thus most of the same calcs and observations are applied depending on the properties of these supernatural properties

the feat shown here isn't supported by any supernatural property, it's as basic as it gets, it's character A who is appearently dodging character B who is 180 times faster than he is because talent and intuition teehee


that is BS and should be ignored till proven otherwise lmao, yeet it away and kill it with fire

 

[Andytrenom]

I didn't read it