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Rakudai Kishi no Cavalry Discussion Thread

1. Have you read all of the light novels?

2. He's 6-C because he scales to Stella and Ouma Kurogane

3. He's FTL because he scales faster than Stella who dodges light speed beams casually in base.
 
Yes i have. You do know that Stella's physical strenght isnt as high as her magic power (without EA), and that Ikki isnt even as strong as Stella in physical power right?. Ikki manages to trade sword strikes with opponents stronger than him due to martial arts, not his strenght. When he wanted to match Stella's strenght (or Ouma) he needed Madoka.
 
First of all her strength is augmented with her magic. He isn't as strong, he scales. And no he literally blocked (without "skill") and traded with Ouma and he only used Madoka to harm Ouma significantly with his own attack. He also literally tanks 2 of Ouma's blows and continue to fight. With his Ittou Forms he scales directly to Stella.
 
Physical augmantation with magic is posible and done by all decent blazers, but it has a limit, as the body of a human cant handle all that magic. The only exception to this are Desperados on Excesive Awakening, and somewhat Iris due to her healing ability. Stella's full magic potential cant be used to increase her strenght, or her body would break, like it happened to Iris in V15.

Did you read the fight correctly?. The first time Ikki fought Ouma (and this with Ittou Shura) he could only deflect his attacks, but he couldnt guard them because Ouma's physical strenght was much higher than his and it could break his arms, which he did.

https://www.readlightnovel.org/rakudai-kishi-no-eiyuutan/volume-5/chapter-2

Part 9, Ikki cant match Ouma's strenght, he cant merely deflect the attacks with swordsmanship (mentioned in part 8 that this is something he also does with Stella). And like i said above, Stella's physical strenght is inferior to her magic strenght.

So no, Ikki doesnt scale to either Ouma or Stella, and even less to their magic power.
 
"Ikki had swung his sword and yet his shadow remained still. No. It did move but it was as if it was trying to pursue his movements badly. Stella had guessed what that meant. His shadow could not keep up with his movements. Was that even possible? It couldn't be. It shouldn't' be possible for that to happen." Source: https://jasonwanderblog.wordpress.com/2019/04/04/final-chapter-a-the-promised-moment/

His shadow not keeping up should mean that he's FTL at least when using Oikage right? Later Stella is much superior to the Stella that was fighting Ikki at this point, and Ikki scales to her, so...
 
I never claimed she could output all her magic as physocal augmentation but that's besides the point. Ouma Kurogane scales above her Bahamut Howl by just flexing and Ikki scales to him in their second fight. The first fight is irrelevant in base all he could do was dodge or get broken bones, in IS he directly tanks attacks and trades.

Also Ikki couldn't just skill block in the second fighy since it's stated Ouma and Ikki's skill are "about equal". It's not even implied at all he's doing that. Same in the last fight with Stella he's actually fighting on par at times. Not just dodging. He tanks a shoulder charge from Ouma where his balance is broken and then Ouma uses his continous strikes attscks and Ikki blocks them. He also breaks a vacuum blade.
 
1. Bahamut Howl is just Stella not restricting her fire, not her using all her magic ittou shura style.

2. The body can handle all the magic. Ittou Rasetsu be looking at your statement while laughing its ass off. Inb4 you say "cus ikki has low magic" yes, but that allows him to break Touka's sword who is rank B. So his body could handle more magic than a rank B. A rank A stella with stronger physique would be able to do more.

3. Dragon Spirit is literally physical attacks that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bahamut Howl, so like...yeah. There goes the "Bahamut Holw > Stella's punches".

4. Bahamut Howl couldn't get past Ouma's Armor, which Ikki did get past using Saigeki.

5. Stella was completely overpowered by Ouma's "without armor" form. While ikki could break through the vaccum blade, the same vacuum blade that tore Stella's stomach open.

6. Stella being above Ikki physically is true, but it's only in their last fight cus as they said she was in peak condition. Whereas against Ouma she wasn't as strong as i prove above which would make Ikki stronger than Stella physically as he did much better vs ouma without armor than she did.

So like yeah there's that. I wish we could have seen what happened after Ouma used Kusanagi doe, how Ikki beat him without using Ittou Shura
 
Ouma only "tanked" Bahamut Howl with Fuujin Kekkai, not the Tenryuu Armor, and he just redirected the attack to the sky. What defensive feats has the Tenryuu Armor at the level of Bahamut Howl?. None.

Ikki can handle all his magic because he has little magic to begin with, a blazer with huge magic power like Stella cant do it. This is from V15, when Iris uses too much magcal augmantation

"The healing power of Iris' "Orichalcos" is not used for defense only. Any Blazer could strengthen their attack and speed with their mana only in the range where their body wouldn't break, but in Iris' case she can disregard the physical damage to her body due to her healing ability. Thus, she can release strength and speed that normally should have been impossible."

In V14 is also mentioned that only Desperados in Excessive Awakening can handle a full magic augmantation (when we talk about blazers with huge magic power), thanks to their demon bodies.

I have yet to see feats that would make Dragon Spirit > Bahamut Howl, which is meaningless anyway as Ikki cant compare to Dragon Spirit, he needed a spam of Madoka to do it.

"While ikki could break through the vaccum blade, the same vacuum blade that tore Stella's stomach open."

How is that relevant?, Stella's durability isnt as high as her AP, also, the injury wasnt even a big deal. Hell, Blazers always showed higher magical abilities than physical...

And in Ikki's second fight with Ouma, he still admits that he is physically inferior. Again, this was mentioned in V5, when Ikki fights opponents stronger than him he uses a soft defense to avoid receiving the impact of the attacks.

Really, i dont see how you can scale Ikki to opponents he himself has admitted to be physically inferior (he was even scared of Stella), opponents that with just one good attack can break his bones, opponents that he can only truly match in strenght with Madoka, even less i understand how you pretend to say he receives PS from magic attacks made by magic powerhouses as the magical and physical strenght of Stella/Ouma is clearly not the same, as no human body can handle that, mentioned during the Naseem vs Nene and then again in the Iris vs Ikki, even showned with Iris body breaking apart. But whatever, wank all you want.
 
I don't mean ikki > stella or ouma. He is inferior to both but decently comparable to make him sit in the same tier.

And like you serious with dragon spirit < bahamut howl? Cus I mean dragon spirit was the ult trump card that could absolutely trash ouma. None of ouma's attacks could even compare.

And again to say it. Bahamut howl is NOT stella using all her magic, it's just her not putting restraints. That amount of magic is almost insignificant to her pool.

And you completely dodged the point of ittou rasetsu ikki having more magic than a b rank. Which as touka stated isn't that great of a difference between a rank and b rank.
 
Ikki cant seat in the same table as Ouma or Stella, he can only match them due to his skill as a swordsman. When Ikki replicated Stella's strenght with madoka we get this quote

"Stella understood Ikki's specs for the most part. That's why she understood. With his strength alone, he was unable to output such offensive power. In fact, it should be impossible for anyone but Ouma."

Even Ikki says he needs Madoka for Stella.

"With Stella in her current state, he needed Madoka to fight her."

And when they clashed using Ittou Shura and Dragon Spirit, Ikki was constantly spaming his evolved Madoka.

Yes, im serious. Dragon Spirit is a trump card that enhances her physical strenght plus her Regenerationn. Thats cool and all, but does Dragon Spirit has any feats at the level of Bahamut Howl?. Dragon Spirit broke the Tenryuu Armor, but that armor never got attacked by Bahamut Howl or any attack as strong as that one. You said he did before, but he didnt, that was Fuujin Kekkai and it didnt tank the attack but redirected it to the sky.

Someone with a mana capacity as huge as Stella doesnt need to use it all to break her body, again, Iris is an example of this. And actually, Bahamut Howl is a full power release of mana at maximum output.

https://www.readlightnovel.org/rakudai-kishi-no-eiyuutan/volume-6/chapter-1

Volume 6, Chapter 2, Part 9. No, Stella's physical strenght doesnt scale to a full power release of her mana.

Ikki's Ittou Rasetsu doesnt have more magic than a Blazer with B Rank magic. This just means that his strenght was enough to surpass the durability of that device. Ikki's has F Rank magic, Noble Arts cant increase his capacity, remember, only Desperados can do such things. This is like saying Ikki has more mana than Iris because he broke her device, complety nonsense.

What do we get from all this?, quite simple:

1- Base Ikki doesnt scale to Base Stella or Ouma, we have the quotes that deny such powerscaling, and there are quotes that state that he can fight them due to skill, not strenght.

2- Ittou Shura Ikki doesnt scale to Dragon Spirit Stella, he needs a constant spam of Madoka to match her.

3- Stella's physical strenght doesnt scale to her Bahamut Howl.

4- Ouma never tanked Bahamut Howl, so dont make powerscaling to his armor.

If you want to say that Dragon Spirit > Bahamut Howl in AP, bring feats that support this, because there are quotes that deny the possibility of matching your magic power with physical power (unless its a Desperado with Excessive Awakening). Im not debating more about scaling Ikki to Ouma or Stella, he cant match neither in physical strenght, he is not even close to them. But im just seeing a wankfest regarding all this, its like people forgot that Ikki's strenght was his skills and not his raw power.

Anyway, im waiting for the feats regarding Dragon Spirit and not just a baseless powerscaling when the same novel denies that very same baseless powerscaling. Im pretty sure you are gonna ignore the Ikki part, despite the novel being very clear in how he is far from Stella or Ouma's strenght.
 
And i forgot the FTL thing. Stella didnt dodge LS beams, she was dodging an ice attack from Tsuruya. That should be an outlier, considering how Ikki's legit FTL feat was a big deal in his verse (and Stella didnt react). Plus, in this wikia they are usually strict with FTL feats, and here you just have one quote from an ice attack?. Seems fishy.
 
1. Ok fair enough, but you can't stand here arguing "ikki is a thousand times weaker". He is not as strong as them, he is weaker, but it shouldn't be enough to kick him out of the tier. If you have an exact multiplier as to how much weaker he is then sure. The fact that he could take a full power shot from both Ouma and Stella, means he is at the very least in the same tier although weaker. And again Base stella couldn't get past Ouma's wind barrier, while Ikki could. Although with skill, piercing vs slashing doesn't mean there is a 1000x difference between them.

2. Never said it did, i believe.

3. With feats beyond that of Bahamut Howl like not being stopped by Ouma's wind, which is just his magic work and the fact that it had a feat that not even Bahamut Howl could replicate and that is to become so hot she started erasing things from existence and with enough power to erase Ikki's device if it touched, something Bahamut Howl could not acomplish yes, it is far stronger. If Bahamut Howl was as strong then Ikki wouldn't have been able to push through it, as he would have been instantly erased. He needed to use Oikage, Ittou Rasetsu and his fastest sword technique possible to avoid not having his sword not blown away, whereas he countered Bahamut Howl in base, with his base speed and without magic.

4. Ouma's tenryuu armor is him manipulating the wind around him. He is not going easy on the strength of the wind. And again, no wind attacks could measure up to Stella. Even Kusanagi which is >>>>>> Fujin Kekkai, was completely overwhelmed. By your logic, Bahamut Howl would be stronger than Salamandra cus "it's the full release of her power", which is proven wrong by the series.

Bahamut Howl, i repeat, is NOT the full release of her power. You're taking random statements out of context without applying logic to the consequences. Stella used Bahamut Howl at the start of the match against Ikki, she had so much more magic left she could use her trump card, get more powerful eventually, and at the end of the match even use Salamandra which is the skill that consumes the most magic out of her techniques. If BH were the full release of her power, she would not have magic left at the end of it, while she has plenty.

Ikki breaking the device of a B-Class, is him having more magic at that moment. As Or-Gaule said to Wallenstein (the dude who can use friction to negate durability and cut through anything) "the device cannot be broken by someone with less magic capacity", which is why Wallenstein couldn't break through the threads of Or-Gaule as he has way more magic capacity. You need more magic to break through a sword, not more AP.

Ikki broke through iris' device not by normal slice. They specifically stated he used desperado hax to enforce death on her. He had not been able to break the shield up to that point, so that entire argument is moot as he didn't do it with normal attacks.
 
From in close quarters no. In most cases it could be but it depends on the distance. The admins agreed that due to the nature of the range, stella was moving completely out of her sight, within the time it took her light to cross an unknown distance. But moving completely out of sight is not a small distance cus line of sight gets wider the farther you are. So like...it's very possible that she is SoL, in fact it's actually more likely, but yeah this is all on the fact that it's not a single beam, so she had to move a lot to actually dodge that as she was running and jumping around.
 
MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
And also Wallenstei should not be put in Top Tier of the verse
Click to expand...
I didn't know you were knowledgeable on Rakudai. But the one who did the tierlist put him there, but i do agree on his placement there. Shizuku just hard countered him, otherwise he would have won. He was beating the hell outta Or=Gaule and would have won if Nassem hadn't came in to kill Wallenstein.

The problem is Wallenstein is a god tier against people who do not have an ability that doesn't rely on friction. He also is unaffected by Or=Gaule's desperado aura.
 
I've only read uptil the Naseem killed him though but comparing Wallenstein to Top tier's like Naseem, he's kinda cute. Or=Gaule doesnt take Wallenstein seriously though
 
MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
And also I've read parts that Ouma Kurogane should be comparable to the mountain though. So shouldnt he receive an upgrade?
Click to expand...
That's just flowery language. "It felt like attacking a mountain", "Stood there like a mountain, immovable" etc.
 
MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
I've only read uptil the Naseem killed him though but comparing Wallenstein to Top tier's like Naseem, he's kinda cute
Click to expand...
Naseem from my current opinion should be about on par with Or=Gaule, or in the same ballpark at least. And Wallenstein was just trashing Or=Gaule.

https://novelplanet.com/Novel/Rakudai-Kishi-no-Eiyuutan/v11c6?id=637719

Here is the fight. Just "Ctrl+F wallenstei" to go straight to Or=Gaule vs Wallenstein.
 
Though I do need Edelweiss to fight someone. She is the strongest ffs, i need to see her fight someone who's not Ikki. I want to see how she deals with stuff like Nassem and the like.
 
MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
Edelweiss need more showing and I'm interested to see what Tyrant can do.
Click to expand...
Yep. I mean she is stronger than Tyrant, who's possibly stronger than Superman or Whitebeard who are supossedly massively stronger than Nene and Kurono who are stronger than Nassem and the other desperados. I mean just ugh...i need to see more things from Edelweiss than just her swinging her swords.

But then again, i guess it's not her time yet, considering she's literally the strongest. Kind of like Nene where she was just like "i just increase gravity here and there, but Ouma can tank it", then went to "i just pull 6 dimensions with my gravity and trap you in 10 dimensional space" kind of thing.
 
There's theory that Tyrant is Ryouma Kurogane. Tyrant is old and a WW2 vet. Coincedence? but I think he's only affiliated to Ryouma though or else Ouma should have recognized him when they fought.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
Edelweiss need more showing and I'm interested to see what Tyrant can do.
Click to expand...
Yep. I mean she is stronger than Tyrant, who's possibly stronger than Superman or Whitebeard who are supossedly massively stronger than Nene and Kurono who are stronger than Nassem and the other desperados. I mean just ugh...i need to see more things from Edelweiss than just her swinging her swords.
But then again, i guess it's not her time yet, considering she's literally the strongest. Kind of like Nene where she was just like "i just increase gravity here and there, but Ouma can tank it", then went to "i just pull 6 dimensions with my gravity and trap you in 10 dimensional space" kind of thing.
Click to expand...
Is it mentioned that Edelweiss is the Top 1 Blazer in the world? I mean she's the World Strongest Swordsman but I don't remeber if that means Top 1 Blazer in the World (something like Mihawk in One Piece being the strongest swordsman in the world but he's really not the strongest person in the World)
 
Exactly why i don't believe that theory. Ouma would have known it was Ryouma, and even then would Ryouma who helped Ikki when he was down really kill his own grandson? (Ouma stated he would have been killed had Edelweiss not saved him)
 
I was thinking about potential spin-offs and I would want one for either Edelweiss or Ouma. Like, detailed information on her past and how she got to where she is now.

Also why is Ikki's profile under lock and key.
 
That would be fun. A spin-off for them would be immensly fun though.

Im still waiting for them to show the history of Rakudai, you know Ikki vs Yureki, Nene vs Kurono, how Ryouma trained Kurono and Tojirou trained Nene etc.
 
Is it mentioned that Edelweiss is the Top 1 Blazer in the world? I mean she's the World Strongest Swordsman but I don't remeber if that means Top 1 Blazer in the World (something like Mihawk in One Piece being the strongest swordsman in the world but he's really not the strongest person in the World)
^^
 
There's already a detailed explanation for Nene vs Kurono and Nanagou taking Nene though, in one of the volumes. It's in the Rakudai wiki, also shows how Kurono refused to break free of her fate and become a Desperado.

Interestingly, hers was in the form of a door iirc while it was chains in Ikki's case. Makes me interested in what appeared for the other Desperados before they freed themselves from fate.
 
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