Radiating with Skill: Ikki vs The Nuclear Throne (Grace)

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Welp. Then it depends how long he has to stay in the toxic wasteland.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

He has to clear fifteen levels full of over a hundred enemies each spamming toxic waste filled attacks, the rad exposure should be similar or stronger then the elephant foot which had people fatigued and confused within thirty seconds and cells hemorrhaging within two minutes.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well it will still take a decent amount of time. This guy could still fight almost unbothered after being pierced through every limb and having been blown a hole through basically every non insta kill organ (brain, heart and lungs). Not to mention he can even shut down some organs so vomit and stuff like that ain't really gonna happen.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Yeah, Ikki can manipulate his organs and stop them from functioning. So he could just do this and blitz through the enemies.

 

[Moritzva]

Radiation kills a lot more than just organs.

Namely, it stops everything.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Radiation kills a lot more than just organs.
Namely, it stops everything.

Everything being....?

 

[Moritzva]

Your entire body.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Yeah Ikki loses here. He's basically in a realm full of toxicity which he doesn't resist.

 

[Ionliosite]

As I said this is the same as Fugil's match, a stomp no matter how you look at it.

 

[KGiffoni]

Yeah, i also think this is a stomp

 

[Moritzva]

Always willing to argue a skillstomp, but the moment that skill isn't an easy win, it must be a stomp, eh?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Lol.

 

[Ionliosite]

I already told you like 3 times the match with Fugil wouldn't be a stomp if you used Fugil with Bahamut

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I mean dude. It not always a stomp if Ikki cannot outskill. It's a stomp if he gets massacred in a realm of eldritch toxicity in which skill isn't a factor.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I already told you like 3 times the match with Fugil wouldn't be a stomp if you used Fugil with Bahamut </div>

In this case give ikki desperado hax

 

[Moritzva]

To put it like this-

I'm highly doubtful 30 seconds is the time limit here. That's for normal people in high contact, and even then merely ****** them up, didn't kill. Ikki's pain tolerance and stamina is more than enough to cover that. So, 30 seconds is fallacious. If he avoids direct hits, I'd give him a few minutes before he's ****** up beyond being able to fight.

To compare advantages:

Ikki: Literally kills any enemy by sneezing on them, sword means he doesn't need to directly touch enemies, asston of amps (all unrestricted), toxic weapons alone won't put him down, and skill. Lots of skill.

The Nuclear Throne: Inevitable timer on Ikki, tons of danmaku (A lot of it is harmless due to low AP, which several levels have problems with, but the high radiation levels make up for it), range, and a crapton of summons.

In the end, can The Throne either stall Ikki out or land a hit, or can Ikki speedrun fast enough with his skill and batshit insane amps? From this discussion, the former seems more likely, but I'm not the one voting.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Does desperado hax help him here? He's still stuck in a toxic wasteland he doesn't resist and he still has to kill every enemy on every level before he falls to the radiation... Im still voting throne btw, just curios if desperado hax would actually play a factor.

 

[Ionliosite]

He fate haxes The Nuclear Throne to stop and just hit it and that with all others.

 

[Moritzva]

I mean dude. It not always a stomp if Ikki cannot outskill. It's a stomp if he gets massacred in a realm of eldritch toxicity in which skill isn't a factor.

The biggest danger is being hit once. Skill helps in that. If he doesn't get hit, he can just mow down everything.

(As for the Fugil match, Fugil actually does have the regen and stamina to fight indefinitely, so giving him AP and range is just a free win at that point)

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The thing i don't get is "is the win condition for Throne time limit or landing a hit?". If it's the former it's a stomp, cus it's basically "ikki can't outdo the time limit for the passive kill". If it's the later i'd like to hear the arguments why ikki will be unable to dodge or slap them away.

 

[Ionliosite]

Earl, don't copy-paste the arguments I say for Fugil

 

[Moritzva]

Both are wincons, but I imagine it's a mix of both.

The time limit means Ikki can't play it too safe, as he has to finish it before his health runs to zero. As well, whittling his stamina and strength will make it harder to dodge.

But the passive radhax isn't as potent as a direct hit, either. A direct hit will rend him dead, but only some hits. A lot of enemies can't do much besides charge at him since their AP is too low.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Stamina and strength drain ain't gonna do you any good against Ikki.

>Make it harder to dodge

Tell that to his feat of dealing with Million Rain after all the stuff he suffered. All of which were invisible attacks btw. And Ikki's not the type to take his time with stuff, especially given how he's much faster than anything in this fight.

Attacks hitting him is gonna need some massive proof on why they are so good. Just sheer number ain't gonna do anything. He dealt with 8 attacks from different directions which were coming at him at the same time. He has an ability that specifically is meant to deal with those, ten i muhou. Even ring nukers say "it's hard to land a hit on ikki when he's on the deffensive.".

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Hmmm so what level of regen does the radiation hax get beaten out by?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

(As for the Fugil match, Fugil actually does have the regen and stamina to fight indefinitely, so giving him AP and range is just a free win at that point)

Can i use this to say biased OP specifically making fights so that Throne wins/has an advantage?

 

[Moritzva]

Yes, the classic "Don't let the opponent stomp is spite."

(Seriously, this debate seems to be swapping between "The Throne wins passively so it's a stomp" and "Ikki/Fugil is untouchable gg". Where is the in-between, guys?)

 

[Moritzva]

Hmmm so what level of regen does the radiation hax get beaten out by?

Depends, but usually around Low-Mid (as long as it's not biological regen) is where you can ignore it.

Unless you get hit head on and die instantly.

As for Ikki, dodging eight attacks is nice, how about 100? I don't doubt he can dodge attacks, though- just that this won't be as easy as most Ikki Skillstomp victories, if that makes sense.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It was a joke

Well because it goes like "well i don't think ikki can beat the timer", i say it is a stomp if he can't then it's "well it's hard because he has to deal with danmaku".

Danmaku is not a problem for him, it's the timer. If he can beat the timer he clears mid diff, if he can't it's a stomp as he can't deal with the passives.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Aw then low/mid high would be far to much...Actually would it be to much if the regen was based in biology? Hmmm actually would mid or high mid be enough to get through?

 

[Moritzva]

Aw then low/mid high would be far to much...Disappointing. Hmmm actually would mid or high mid be to much?

Eh, who's the person you have in mind?

Since High Regen won't help if you drop dead instantly, or it's biological.

@Earl It's both factors at once, is the issue. Sure, he can play defensive, but the timer is ticking. He can play offensive, but he'll be more likely to get hit.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

As for Ikki, dodging eight attacks is nice, how about 100? I don't doubt he can dodge attacks, though- just that this won't be as easy as most Ikki Skillstomp victories, if that makes sense.

He hes dealt with that too. Your point? The 8 attacks is "at the same time". Here is Kuraudo (less skilled) using the same move to deal with machinegun attacks from an entire army:

As Kuraudo was cursing her, the black smoke in front of him shifted in the breeze, and he saw….


Muzzles of military machine guns were pointed at him by an army corps of over a hundred skeletons.


"Purple Caricature—Necro Battalion."

"This girl… really is way too much…."

That instant, the hundred or so muzzles fired a storm of lead that couldn't be compared to the density or speed from before. All of it hit Kuraudo, to punch his body into a honeycomb.

"Wha…!?"

Gun barrels in formation. Seeing Kuraudo swallowed by the storm of lead flying from those barrels in unison, Ikki leaped up from his folding chair, sending it crashing to the ground. Was he seeing Kuraudo's gruesome last moments?

—No.

"I-It can't be…."

What spilled from his trembling lips was surprise. The bullets certainly hit. Such a dense barrage would definitely turn a human into not just a honeycomb, but ground meat. That was certain, but Kuraudo was standing calmly inside that storm of lead as if it wasn't affecting him at all.

ÒÇîWh-What is this!? Are we really seeing this, or is it a dream…!? Contender Kuraudo should've been devoured by the undead army's fire…! But he's standing! No, not just standing… he's walking! Inside the horizontal rain of lead, he's calmly continuing forward, approaching Contender Sara Bloodlily—!ÒÇì

At this spectacle, even Sara was shaking with her mouth open. Inconceivable. It was a barrage of lead with no gaps to hide in. Kuraudo had blocked the automatic gunshots from the Thompson, but this was not an amount of bullets that he could deal with. No, Kuraudo wasn't even swinging his sword right now. He was only carrying Orochimaru in his hands. In other words, he was taking hundreds of machine gun shots without defending himself. Then how was he standing? How was he facing this?

The method—was something only Ikki Kurogane in the arena waiting room knew. Kuraudo was indeed not making any attempt to dodge, just as he appeared. His body was exposed to the barrage defenselessly. And yet the bullets were not gouging out his flesh—they were veering aside. The moment any touched Kuraudo's body, it glided past over his clothing, flowed around him without wounding. No—they were being made to do so.

...Kurashiki-kun figured it out somehow while learning swordsmanship. He realized that two-sword style was an excellent fit for his ability. There must have been someone to point it out, and more than anything his previous aggression and sharpness isn't there anymore. What's here now is a swordsman's well-honed spirit. But how… how can it be… the one behind Kurashiki-kun is… you…!?

Ikki knew. A certain genius swordsman's perfect defense of grasping the flow of everything in nature, perceiving their subtleties to ward off each and every attack, derived after half a lifetime of risk—


Ayatsuji Single-Sword Style secret technique—Ten'i Muhou.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Alex mercer he has mid high regen though it is biological.

 

[Moritzva]

Yea, 100 attacks at the same time.

...while a bit of an exaggeration, it's more than possible for an overwhelming swarm of bullets and danmaku to come rushing at Ikki all at once.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yea, 100 attacks at the same time.
...while a bit of an exaggeration, it's more than possible for an overwhelming swarm of bullets and danmaku to come rushing at Ikki all at once.

Read Kuraudo using Ten I Muhou. And tell me why Ikki can't just do the same.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Anyway this is my last post for the day. I will answer back tomorrow cus i got a physics test tomorrow and das not good.

 

[Moritzva]

How often can he use it?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

How often can he use it?

Ten i muhou?

No limit. It's a sword technique, not a magic thing.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Ten i Muho is literally Ikki running forwards and evading things by razor sharp movements.

Which I don't see being useful with this many projectiles.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ten i Muho is literally Ikki running forwards and evading things by razor sharp movements.

Which I don't see being useful with this many projectiles.

That's what kuraudo did though. Machine gun attacks from an army got no sold by ten i muhou.

 

[Moritzva]

Machine gun attacks leave openings, walls of projectiles don't.

Granted, he can always walk through them since a lot can't really hurt him, but that's very risky as it'll be hard to tell when an attack ca hurt him.