Radiating Skill: Ikki vs The Nuclear Throne REDUX

[Firephoenixearl]

Same rules as before. In other words:
Speed Equalized. All the generators are broken, so Loops are active.

Ikki knows he's facing a very large boss rush of enemies, and that the battle won't be over until he kills The Throne (the first form) twice.

However this time Shikki is used.

Shikki Kurogane
vs
The Nuclear Throne

Speed Equal.

 

[Schnee_One]

What can Shikki do

Turning into vapor alone doesn't counter radiation as Radiation inherently affects the Air's Molecules and can affect and radiate water.

Desperado bloodlust might work

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What can't Shikki do? Everything that's mentioned on the profile. Intangibility, ice and healing are the most useful ones for this match though.

 

[Schnee_One]

Intangibility is through vapor, Radiation makes this useless. Likewise with healing.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Why?

 

[Schnee_One]

Radiation inherently works on a molecular level and affects all air molecules within it, Ikki turns into vapor but the vapor itself is still heavily infected with Radiation molecules and those molecules get “killed” killing Ikki in the process.

Nuclear Thrones Rads can kill other standard radiation molecules, so turning into vapor is completely useless.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Radiation inherently works on a molecular level and affects all air molecules within it, Ikki turns into vapor but the vapor itself is still heavily infected with Radiation molecules and those molecules get “killed” killing Ikki in the process.

The molecules don't get "killed" by radiation though. Molecules aren't alive to begin with. I believe you are confusing molecules with cells. Cells can die due to getting their DNA messed up, however when was the last time you saw something happen to the sea due to radiation? It does get radiated for sure, but did you notice any changes in it?

And do mention why healing is useless.

 

[Schnee_One]

Molecules may not get killed by radiation in real life but in Nuclear Throne they can literally kill radioactive molecules alone so at the end of the day Ikki can’t do much.

“Do you notice any changes with it”

Small parts of Water gets ionized when introduced to high amounts of radiation.

At best, even if you argue Ikki doesn’t die as vapor due to how much radiation is being ingested even when it can kill radioactive molecules, it’s impossible for him to go back into his physical form because once he’s physical he will have so much radiation he will instantly die

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Molecules may not get killed by radiation in real life but in Nuclear Throne they can literally kill radioactive molecules alone so at the end of the day Ikki can’t do much.

I mean they are beings made of radiation, not raw radiation, cus that's saying radiation kills radiation and i don't have to explain why that's weird.

Small parts of Water gets ionized when introduced to high amounts of radiation.

Yes, but does anything particular happen after that? It remains water.

At best, even if you argue Ikki doesn’t die as vapor due to how much radiation is being ingested even when it can kill radioactive molecules, it’s impossible for him to go back into his physical form because once he’s physical he will have so much radiation he will instantly die

I mean is staying as vapor an issue for him?

But that is not true. How Ikki turns to and from vapor is by reconstructing his whole body, and when reconstructing his whole body like that, he would obviously have to reconstruct ionized atoms or molecules, meaning he can easily turn them into unionized atoms or molecules.

 

[Schnee_One]

1. This was already addressed in the previous thread, yes it’s radiation killing radiation, cool who cares it’s fiction. Ikki is from a verse where breathing and moving in a such a way makes your brain not process it as necessary information yet it works on characters that can analyze information down to their Atoms.

2. The water itself having its properties changed through ionization is pretty major when you are using the water and it’s vapor to reassemble yourself.

3. Depends, can he do anything as vapor? Drowning fails since it’s a machine that’s no affected by water, and it’s tech is water proof.

2. and 3. Are irrelevant until 1. Is Addressed because the entire previous thread already pointed out that radioactive molecules aren’t affected

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. This was already addressed in the previous thread, yes it’s radiation killing radiation, cool who cares it’s fiction. Ikki is from a verse where breathing and moving in a such a way makes your brain not process it as necessary information yet it works on characters that can analyze information down to their Atoms.

It's killing people made of radiation though.

2. The water itself having its properties changed through ionization is pretty major when you are using the water and it’s vapor to reassemble yourself.

It's still water and vapor, it changes some properties such as conductivity, but that's about it. Ionized water is still water that ikki can control.

3. Depends, can he do anything as vapor? Drowning fails since it’s a machine that’s no affected by water, and it’s tech is water proof.

Freezing.

And do mention why healing is useless.

 

[Schnee_One]

1. Yes....Yes it’s dumb I get it but that’s fiction in a nutshell

2. Actually, this is my bad but I remembered Shizuku was able to change the waters properties for lightning, so that’s fair

3. That’s a good point actually.

What level is Ikki’s healing? Rads in Nuclear Throne stop High

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. Yes....Yes it’s dumb I get it but that’s fiction in a nutshell

More a sense of these beings made of radiation are still "alive" in a sense. They aren't objects, the fact that things like metal, generators and all that stuff around them doesn't just break down cus why not. It's still saying it's the radiation things not being what we're making it out to be and can still "die".

What level is Ikki’s healing? Rads in Nuclear Throne stop High

High is regeneration not healing. But since when does it neg high regen?

 

[Schnee_One]

1. I don’t really know what to tell you here, beings that are literally made entirely from radiation and other radioactive Material are still effected and are still killed, I’m going off everything that was already said in the previous thread.

2. I’ll let Mori answer that since that was why I didn’t toss Beast Cole on Nuclear Throne

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ping Mori. This thread is my Christmas gift to him.

 

[Schnee_One]

As you wish man, Merry Christmas

@Moritzva YOU HAVE BEEN SUMMONED

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Merry Christmas to you.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Mori is scared smh.

 

[Moritzva]

wha

I fail to see how this is any different, I dunno if Desperado would even work on a floating chair of dubious sentience and intelligence and constant debates over Desperado/CRTs/disagreements over how it works are why.

As for healing - I’ve said this before, but the nature of radiation, by definition, screws over biological healing on a cellular level by killing said cells (this is an IRL fact, mind you). If the healing is purely magical and you can prove that then it’s probably a stomp or smth.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I fail to see how this is any different, I dunno if Desperado would even work on a floating chair of dubious sentience

Why would that be the case?

constant debates over Desperado/CRTs/disagreements over how it works are why

What debates and disagreements?

I’ve said this before, but the nature of radiation, by definition, screws over biological healing on a cellular level by killing said cells

Ok but that can be negated by literally any level of regen. For it to start needing strong enough regen it would require all the cells to die instantly at the same time, which isn't how radiation works.

If the healing is purely magical and you can prove that then it’s probably a stomp or smth.

Yeah ikki's magic works on a sub-atomic level.

 

[DMUA]

Radiation inherently works on a molecular level

Macro Quantic, actually.

Now would you like to show proof of sub atomic stuff for Ikki?

 

[Schnee_One]

Holy shit really?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Scales from shizuku. Unionizes water on a casual basis.

Not that it matters as i said, as it would require the radiation to instantly kill all the cells of the body.

And it's still just vapor, radiation doesn't kill vapor.

 

[DMUA]

I mean, yeah.

Radiation screws up atoms by ripping off Protons, unless my information has been severely skewed by time. It just, also can sever bonds between atoms for nuclear fission.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Radiation screws up atoms by ripping off Protons, unless my information has been severely skewed by time.

I've never heard of radiation doing that. I know it ionizes atoms but not break down the atom entirely.

It just, also can sever bonds between atoms for nuclear fission.

Yeah but then that would cause all objects within the vicinity that same effect. The fact that they don't do that means it can't do that.

 

[DMUA]

Scales from shizuku. Unionizes water on a casual basis.

This is something not backed up on either profile so mind providing evidence?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

This is something not backed up on either profile so mind providing evidence?

<can create ultra-pure water that doesn't conduct electricity
literally on shizuku's profile

 

[DMUA]

That's not unionizing, that's insulation. Which I guess could produce the same result

That said doesn't radiation in nuclear throne blow past resistance, like what this would essentially be?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What do you mean insulation? The reason water conducts is cus of ions, to turn water into non conductor (ultrapure), you would need to unionize the water.

That said doesn't radiation in nuclear throne blow past resistance, like what this would essentially be?

Not really..... In what way is this resistance?

 

[DMUA]

It's stopping radiation from entering and having Ill effects. That's textbook resistance.

If the electricity never goes through it would never actually be ionized. You haven't shown proof he can remove ionization, just stop it from getting in.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's stopping radiation from entering and having Ill effects. That's textbook resistance.

No it's not. It's just reversing the effects of radiation.

You haven't shown proof he can remove ionization, just stop it from getting in.

And you stop water from conducting electricity how else?

 

[Schnee_One]

If you are literally radioactive material, you are resistant to it

Therefore if another radiation is stronger then that and kills it, you overpower that resistance

There’s nothing that says they have resistance negation

 

[Firephoenixearl]

There’s nothing that says they have resistance negation

I don't think DMUA argued for resistance negation.

But either way it's not relevant here.

 

[DMUA]

Is the ionization actually removed, or is it just generated without any of the salt and other minerals that give conductivity?

Because it sounds like they just make deionized water, they don't actually deionize.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They deionize it. Otherwise it wouldn't be a feat. It'd be sth all water users could do in rakudai.

 

[DMUA]

Maybe it isn't actually a feat?

Provide some proof they're actually deionizing the water as opposed to making it already without ions.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Smh why do people always think im talking outta my ass even though i have a history of never doing that?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

「Yeah… everyone thinks that water loses to electricity, right? But no, when water does so it's because impurities like ions and microbes in the water make it conductive. Water becomes less and less conductive as it becomes more and more pure, until it becomes ultra-pure and forms a complete insulator that electricity won't pass through.」

「I see… oh? Then why don't other water users copy this tactic?」

「It's not that they don't, they can't. Completely removing impurities at the ion level is like sifting gold dust from desert sand. Only Shizuku-san's level of magic control allows her to perform such a technique. If an ordinary knight tries to copy this maneuver, won't his mind burn out first? Cough As you'd expect for the first-year runner-up… guh!」

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bump

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Bump.

I'll take this as a win kekeke.