Radiating with Skill: Ikki vs The Nuclear Throne (Grace)

[Firephoenixearl]

Partially intangible?

Explain

Before saying whether skill is enough or not we have to decide on how affecting them works.

 

[Moritzva]

I imagine they have a waste 'skeleton' that makes up their physical form (some manner of a physical body) but are surrounded by intense radiation that's surely not physical, but can definitely hurt Ikki.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Imma wait until you guys all agree.

 

[KGiffoni]

Nobody in Nuclear Throne is non-corporeal.


However, i do agree all of them (with the exception of IDPD) emanate radiation and that's a big trouble for Ikki.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

How bad can it even be against a guy who has cellular level body control?

Radiation isn't an instant effect and it takes a long time to actually cause problems like cancer and stuff.

 

[Moritzva]

While he can survive being around them if he doesn't get hit dead-on, the radiation will start slowly wearing down on his stamina and health. Effectively, he's on a time limit, before he gets tired and falls to full body cancer.

 

[Moritzva]

How bad can it even be against a guy who has cellular level body control?

Radiation isn't an instant effect and it takes a long time to actually cause problems like cancer and stuff.

Nuclear Throne Radhax... ahah.

Passively, it'll screw him up (on a cellular level, since radiation works that way) and begin to wear down at him. If he gets hit directly, he's ******* dead. Just, dead, on the spot.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Dead on the spot? Why?

 

[Moritzva]

Dead on the spot? Why?

Nuclear Throne Radhax is insanely potent and can badly damage/kill;

• Incredibly irradiated stragglers
• Robots
• Literal walking piles of irradiated waste
• And more!

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

The radiation can kill stuff that literally eats radiation and nothing else as well as Horror

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Meh, Ikki just slaps away everything with his sword and calls it a day.

 

[Hl3_or_bust]

>slaps away passive radiation that is everywhere and spawned from anything he kills or breaks

Yeah no

Just no

 

[Moritzva]

Inb4 Ikki's sword becomes irradiated and breaks down.

(Also, slapping away giant ass lasers is going to be a wee bit tough)

To quote something I said on the Fugil thread, since the situation is similar:

1. The Throne 1. Fugil probably takes this easily enough. Fugil's skills will let him avoid most of the attacks, and his Regenerationn means that as long as he doesn't get directly hit by radiation, he's fine.

2. The Throne 2 The first massive hurdle. Fugil is going to have one hell of a time, fighting a flying, moving enemy, with stronger and faster and more unpredictable danmaku, with less room to maneuver on. It's very possible he dies here, honestly, as he's going to have an insanely hard time getting close enough to hit. So, this is a Point Of Contention.

3. Loop Desert Fugil takes this easily enough. He one-shots most enemies, and toxins aren't a problem to him, so he just needs to be careful of rads. Nobody has radiation attacks here. Except...

3-A. Horror Ooh, boy, this one's out of nowhere. Yea, Fugil likely has no reason to attack canisters of radiation, so this one's going to throw him for a loop. Horror is going to come out and is likely the largest threat to the run. The Desert's long corridors means Fugil will very easily get trapped in by Horror's massive, absurdly fast beams of radiation, and melee combat will be damn near impossible. This is a Point Of Contention.

(Wait, does Horror even spawn during loops?)

4. Sewers. Eh, Fugil is fine here. Again, toxins are of no issue, and nothing really uses radiation attacks here.

5. Scrapyard. See Sewers.

6. Crystal Caves. Ho boy, here we go again. Crystals are still dangerous to Fugil if he touches them, and The Hyper Crystal makes melee virtually impossible. This, here, is a Point Of Contention.

7. Frozen City is... marginally dangerous, but still, the amount of radiation-based enemies here are low.

8. The Labs + The Castle. Ayup, this is where it picks up again. These places are chock full of radiation-spewing enemies to an even further degree. In the final levels especially, literally every enemy is of pure, walking radiation of death.

9. The Throne 1 (again) Just as easy as last time.

The difference is, Ikki has even more AP, but also has less stamina and less regen, so he'll become worn out over time.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Or he gets touched by the irradiated shot and drops.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Earl, I would highly suggest you search up the real life phenomenon called Elephants Foot. In its prime, 30 seconds of exposure would induce confusion and fatigue, 2 minutes of exposure would force your cells to hemmorage, 2 minutes would spawn vomiting, etc.

I would imagine this thing dwarfs the Elephahts Foot, and considering this fight absolutely will not be completed under 30 seconds, Ikki is going to die via stalling.

 

[KGiffoni]

Yeah, the radiation of the Nuclear Throne alone is probably more than enough to outright kill Ikki

 

[Moritzva]

I imagine his molecular control may help, but... Well, is that a vote, anyone?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Throne FRA.

 

[KGiffoni]

Yeah, i'm voting Nuclear Throne FRA.

Btw where does the "Building+" AP for normal weapons comes from?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Hmm passive radiation?

Is it possible to end this fight in less time than 30 seconds?

Considering how massive Ikki's both skill and speed are in comparison hardly any level of danmaku is reaching him.

So the idea is, is it possible to end this fight in 30 seconds? How many enemies does he need to kill?

 

[KGiffoni]

There's a total of 15 levels per loop, excluding the Throne 2 battle. With shortcuts, you can make it 10, but still. And there are dozens, if not more than a hundred, of enemies per level. However, Ikki can easily one-shot most of them. He also severely outskills all of them since most are mindless.

If only the Throne's speed is equalized, he can easily blitz through the game, but he can't ignore the rads. They're everywhere.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

10 levels per loop? And he has to do it twice? That's 20 levels. Does he even need to kill all the enemies?

 

[KGiffoni]

Yes, he needs to kill every single one of them, but as i explained above i think he one-shots them casually in this key.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so first, BOY would i love to see this in an animated fight. Just seeing him jump from enemy to enemy while dodging everything. That'd be amazing.

Ikki's badass dodging feat

Second of all, the danmaku as i've explained above, isn't exactly a problem, '''''The soldiers fired the rifle they had in their hands while chasing the distant Ikki.'''''However, he was able to let all the bullets fired go past him by stepping to the left and right.'''''He checked with his sense of hearing the location of the shooting sounds.'''''***'''''『T-that man…! Does he have eyes on his back or something!?』'''''『And with this unstable footing, how can he run so damn fast…!?』'''''『General! It's useless! We can't catch up with him! 』'''''― Tsk.'''''The heavy burden of his heart vanished, the soldiers couldn't catch up with Ikki that became more agile.'''''Ikki jumped between the roofs and separated from his pursuers in the blink of an eye.'''''The soldiers fired bullets at Ikki with the rifles they had in their hands, but none of them hit him.'''''The soldiers weren't unskilled.'''''Ikki stepped to the left and right to evade the bullets with precision.'''''――He never looked back, not even once.'''''He had already assessed the speed of the bullets. And remembered them.'''''If so, the timing at which the bullets came flying from the angle and position of the firing sound could be roughly calculated.'''''It was possible to avoid them, including the calculation error if he had to evade it with a bit more room.'''''Signard clicked her tongue.'''''Although she knew about the level of his physical ability, what Signard saw was just Ikki on top of a flat ring.'''''It was nothing but the skillfulness of his main sword technique that caught her attention.'''''The impression of his Noble Arts《Ittou Shura》was also combined with it, she thought "he was a strong knight specialized in matches".'''''But that wasn't it.'''''Signard realized it.'''''The fundamentals, the foundation that sustained that sword technique.'''''The sharpened physical ability and concentration ability of Ikki weren't common. And his ability to grasp space.'''''Ikki wasn't bothered at all by the terrain or the surprise attacks.'''''He constantly turned his head and selected the best movement at the very instant, he understood the art to break the battle.'''''This tenacity, this determination to use everything he noticed――(――this guy's the type that exists for war rather than for regular matches…!)

Sorry the bold and text is ****** up here.

He however has dealt with a huge amount of bullets and while he does not perform this feat in this key, this feat is not only something casual he did while he was thinking of completely different things, he did this specifically using only his hearing. Ikki would be able to replicate a similar feat here considering he has the awareness even here and doesn't need to use only his hearing. And to top it all off he can use Ittou Shura here.

So i will say with insane dodging feats, being pretty much undetectable due to Trackless Step and massively faster he should be capable of clearing the levels.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Voting throne twenty levels and the throne in thirty seconds doesn't seem realistic, and if any of the rad shots touch him he's going to die. The enemies are spread over an area as well meaning ikki has to find and kill everything. He also can't reasonably use the shortcuts can he? don't some of them require/release rads? Also how would he find them?

 

[Moritzva]

10 levels per loop? And he has to do it twice? That's 20 levels. Does he even need to kill all the enemies?

Well, assuming he starts at The Throne, he only has to loop once- Kill The Throne, do it again.

Looping is significantly harder than the main game.

 

[Moritzva]

Yeah, i'm voting Nuclear Throne FRA.

Btw where does the "Building+" AP for normal weapons comes from?

Most normal weapons can damage the player when reflected, but not kill, and the player can survive Lil' Hunter's Stomp.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well, assuming he starts at The Throne, he only has to loop once- Kill The Throne, do it again.

Looping is significantly harder than the main game.

Difficulty isn't really a problem, time is.

So i need more info here, can Ikki find the shortcuts or no?

If no it's a plain stomp as it's 10 more levels.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Im not sure its been a while since I played the game but I could swear some of them required you to do certain things like hitting a car with a golden screwdriver that may or may not spawn (Often spawns on another level and you have to drag it to the correct one and hit the right car. Said car is often destroyed by enemies stray shots) Another required you to allow a flower to nom on your flesh and im pretty sure one of them devoured rads. Its been a while though so I could be misremembering the exact nature of these shortc

 

[KGiffoni]

The only shortcut level that is obtainable without RNG/Mutations is the Oasis shortcut.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

So he at best gets one shortcut but does ikki have a means to breath underwater?

 

[KGiffoni]

Every mutant gets bubbled in the Oasis, so does Ikki

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Fair enough, that still leaves him finding oasis which reading over the requirments he has to open rad canisters and weapon chest without killing to many enemies, something he has no means of knowing he has to do I fail to see how ikki can shortcut in this....

 

[Moritzva]

I don't think he needs The Oasis. Given his body control and good pain resistance, I imagine he has a fair bit over a minute to go through, as long as he is careful around anything too toxic.

It's just going to be difficult for more reasons than just that.

 

[KGiffoni]

Extremely precise IA, not sure if it works here

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Well he ain't getting taken by surprise by anything too toxic, considering he has like 10 zillion senses to keep him from danger.

 

[Moritzva]

Nuclear Throne is one hell of a verse, and it's danmaku is hellish. Ikki may have mad skill, but this will be a challenge.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nuclear Throne is one hell of a verse, and it's danmaku is hellish. Ikki may have mad skill, but this will be a challenge.

Ok but like as i said, it's not something that's so completely out of his league. He deals with things he needs to dodge all the freaking time, and most of the time these aren't even visible. I mean hard, sure, but this is the 2nd most skilled character on the site.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I mean in this key poison through food and water over a period of a few (days?, weeks?) isn't enough to kill Ikki but it does fatigue him extremely, even then he was able to fight the Hunter who pierced his whole body with arrows. Not sure how this fairs.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Against cellular level damage from radiation? Not well.