[R1M6] CO-OP Tournament: Frogman/Gunnix vs. The Player/BLU Heavy

[VeneficaAuthor]

2 votes for incon

We need a response from Diamond Drone to argue his case for why BLU and Player team should advance, since froggy already made his argument (and it is a solid one!)

 

[Diamond_Drone]

RED teleporting inside of Gunnix is even better for him at splitting up. Im just saying that the 2x damage reductions will prevent Gunnix from shattering at 100x pieces or more. Gunnix can survive as long as at least 1x of his five cores remain, the cores possess even greater defense than the outside armor, as they are a direct form of red laser giving him "passive red laser aura" mentioned.
By concentrating the dmg taken into 4 cracks missing the cores, Gunnix can be successfully divided into 5 pieces, with a massive speed amp to not be caught again. + also his size helps him there

If the "passive red laser aura" is the better version of the outside armor, then the AP Advantage that you responded to still applies (actually worse, because the red aura can only max out at 7 Tera, meaning Gunnix without anything is less than that!) and also, RED being inside of Gunnix would actually be worse (especially with Heavies that cause explosions with normal attacks) because now all that energy is inside of the mech and would want to spread out and escape the mech, without any regard for integrity. Because that's how bombs generally work.

Also how would Gunnix (or Frogman) be able to concentrate the damage perfectly against an opponent that was just summoned, insta-teleported and punched with 5x the amount of energy at minimum (if I went with 1 Teraton, then the gap would be roughly 36x) that the Mech can handle? Sure, size would help but not if they can already one-shot and liquefy soldiers already five to thirty six times stronger than Gunnix without any effort and having experience with blowing up mechs from the inside out.

In the profile, the stage3 Frogman speed section tells:
"Up to Sub-Relativistic+ (Stage3 is said to be "almost moving with light" with his dodging reactions, into any direction with red laser trails" - Stage3 normally uses way less speed, but his dodging reactions peak at Sub-Relativistic+ speed, while his combat and traveling speeds won't catch up there. It's like bursts of energy explosions from his body rather than a stable propelling force, being best at short reaction movements.

Also if Gunnix's reactions are comparable to the Heavies, stage3 Frogman's should then be even slightly higher, as his moves are faster in 1:1 against Gunnix.

Well if the reaction speeds are specified, then the base combat speed should be specified in the same key like how BLU Heavy does it.

I planned on using the speed from one the lower stages to get the reaction speed advantage in this post but... I'm confused whether to use the Massively Hypersonic+ one from Stage1+ or Massively Hypersonic without the plus from Stage2. Could you clarify and tell the speed of the one that the Stage3 actually uses as combat speed?

Regen of senses, Frogman clones also possess Extraordinary Genius mental capacity.

What do you mean "Regen of sense"? Regeneration is meant to repair physically damaged areas, it has no relation to overloaded senses. Also pretty sure Intelligence doesn't have a lot to do with resisting these kinda things, you need actual resistances.

Not really though. FU Android has Inorganic Physiology (they have both benefits of organic and inorganic physiologies due to the half-soul system, where soul manip could 50% wreck them). Rather than mind manipulation, hacking would be more usable here, which The Player doesn't possess.

Even if it could be bypassed anyhow, there still are 'Misusage prevention protocols' FU Android and higher evolution possess, making it impossible for them to be exploited, in the worst case stopping their actions against "their" controlled will. So the tornados already made couldn't be ordered to stop.

Well if hacking or, some may call it, Technology Manipulation would be more useful than Mind Control, coupled with the fact that you agreed that the Fear Aura of the Heavies would work and it having a tremendous AP and Dura disadvantage at that point, guess what's back on the menu? Yeah that Techno Manip that was the result of the Fear Aura!

So even if the Gunnix manages to survive the internal attack (that would be impossible to react to), BLU Heavy would just threaten it to stand down, making it stop it's actions based on their own controlled will, and letting Team B easily beat it.

Also (unrelated to the fight itself) pretty sure that's Cyborgization, not Inorganic Physiology. Inorganic Physiology kinda implies that you have, ya know, no organic parts?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Well if hacking or, some may call it, Technology Manipulation would be more useful than Mind Control, coupled with the fact that you agreed that the Fear Aura of the Heavies would work and it having a tremendous AP and Dura disadvantage at that point, guess what's back on the menu? Yeah that Techno Manip that was the result of the Fear Aura!

So even if the Gunnix manages to survive the internal attack (that would be impossible to react to), BLU Heavy would just threaten it to stand down, making it stop it's actions based on their own controlled will, and letting Team B easily beat it.

So, this results in the 3 v 1 scenario where they can fight Frogman, and The Player's defenses will be extremely useful to help the heavies against the powerful Red Saber effects.

Maybe we voted incon too soon. Going to need yet another response to determine, but it seems Team B has an advantage again.

 

[Froggytron]

Also how would Gunnix (or Frogman) be able to concentrate the damage perfectly against an opponent that was just summoned, insta-teleported and punched with 5x the amount of energy at minimum (if I went with 1 Teraton, then the gap would be roughly 36x) that the Mech can handle?

I still insist on Gunnix separation due to the immerse damage reductions and smart armor plating mentioned, able to concentrate an explosion blast (otherwise KO'ing Gunnix) into 4x explosion slices tearing Gunnix into 5 pieces with speed amp build-up. Further, when I now think of it, RED Heavy teleporting inside Gunnix directly would be the worst thing RED would want, as this is the exact place where Gunnix generates and accumulates all of his 4x durability negation bullet types. There even are sketches drawn describing this before the Gunnix page was written. This would result in RED's "suicide", teleporting into a place where thousands of radiation, age manip, and matter manip bullets are generating => making the fight once more easier for team A.

I planned on using the speed from one the lower stages to get the reaction speed advantage in this post but... I'm confused whether to use the Massively Hypersonic+ one from Stage1+ or Massively Hypersonic without the plus from Stage2. Could you clarify and tell the speed of the one that the Stage3 actually uses as combat speed?

Massively Hypersonic+ one from Stage1+ is by Stage1+ using the Silk Armor jetpack, being equipment for mostly straightforward flying. Stage3 should achieve at least lower Massively Hypersonic+ speeds matching the jetpack, yet combat applicable. I will upgrade it on the page once I can.

What do you mean "Regen of sense"? Regeneration is meant to repair physically damaged areas, it has no relation to overloaded senses. Also pretty sure Intelligence doesn't have a lot to do with resisting these kinda things, you need actual resistances.

Still, a trained soldier even in this sense of endurance topic will recover quicker than one not having experience with it.

Also (unrelated to the fight itself) pretty sure that's Cyborgization, not Inorganic Physiology. Inorganic Physiology kinda implies that you have, ya know, no organic parts?

Gunnix has no organic parts (without exceptions), yet the red laser crystals (cores) in him allow him to have organic feats (like his own un-robotic mind) thanks to holding the half-soul in him.

Well if hacking or, some may call it, Technology Manipulation would be more useful than Mind Control, coupled with the fact that you agreed that the Fear Aura of the Heavies would work and it having a tremendous AP and Dura disadvantage at that point, guess what's back on the menu? Yeah that Techno Manip that was the result of the Fear Aura!

I didn't agree that Gunnix/Frogman would be scared, both technologically or organically. I even wrote this in this thread:

Also about Fear Manip of Heavies (which I forgot to cover before), the FU unit's destiny is to face foes millions and millions of times stronger in AP. That's why they are evolving and developing such hard haxes so early on. So this shouldnt scare them.

This should scare them only in the sense of "trying harder to beat more OP opponents", actually motivating them to fight better.


Given that RED Heavy teleporting into Gunnix's center means suicide, this is another small point for Team A.
After much thinking these weeks, I will vote Incon with Team A advancing.

 

[Froggytron]

So even if the Gunnix manages to survive the internal attack (that would be impossible to react to), BLU Heavy would just threaten it to stand down, making it stop it's actions based on their own controlled will, and letting Team B easily beat it.

+ note (silly of me to connect so late (ಠ ͜ʖಠ)), but BLU's Techno Manip only seems to work by pointing a pistol at technology, right? Gunnix is perhaps the biggest gun lover there is in the whole FU empire, their nickname goes by "FU's gun masters" in their page name section, and even their both quotes describe their obsession with bullets. Rather than being forced to do anything, Gunnix would blush upon a powerful gun aiming at him from close, the bullet shooting from it would only make Gunnix happy, hardly being a threatening then

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Diamond Drone, do you see a reason for Team B to advance instead? Or is this official?

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Diamond Drone, do you see a reason for Team B to advance instead? Or is this official?

Team B seems to be more physically powerful overall, but Team A seems to have abilities and other factors that tip it in their favor. I guess it's official?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Team B seems to be more physically powerful overall, but Team A seems to have abilities and other factors that tip it in their favor. I guess it's official?

Yeah we’ll make it official. Team B was very impressive though, Team A barely edges out the advancement and they will face Naruto/deku

 

[Froggytron]

Team B seems to be more physically powerful overall, but Team A seems to have abilities and other factors that tip it in their favor. I guess it's official?

Yeah we’ll make it official. Team B was very impressive though, Team A barely edges out the advancement and they will face Naruto/deku

I can agree. If Frogman and Gunnix fought Team B head-on without any dodging or similar abilities, they would be defeated rather quickly.

And even by using their arsenal on full evading and offense capabilities, getting through The Player's defenses is highly unlikely, while similarly, Team B has its own less likely win coins. It was an incredible match, testing Frogman and Gunnix to their utmost limits with an acknowledgeable arguing!

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

This should be able to be added to all profiles now!

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Please add matches asap!

 

[Froggytron]

Please add matches asap!

Yeah, it should be on Frogman/Gunnix profiles by now, sorry for the wait

Team B seems to be more physically powerful overall, but Team A seems to have abilities and other factors that tip it in their favor. I guess it's official?

Also, I really appreciate the result format you came up with! I switched the results at BLU's and The Player's profiles into the Incon section, as The Player proved almost undefeatable, and overall the fight was close tight. It's in the Tourney rules, both team members need to be defeated for a clear win in the results.