[R1M1] Ness Vs The Player Gmod (Grace)

[Javenplayz253]

Spoiler: Prologue

Music
Everyone Was In An Lunch room discussing stuff they do on an daily basis explaining what they do.
Frogman: "So You Fought Someone That Looks Like Me And Lost?
Javen: "Yeah He Was An Pretty big tough guy! But Even though I Lost They Revived and gave me this! A self-regenerating Lollipop Though... That's kinda how my Arch-Nemesis Died..."
Frogman: "You sounded sad when you said that's how you're arch nemesis died... Aren't you kind of supposed to be happy?"
Javen: "Ehhh.... I Really Have To Say Life Really Wasn't fun anymore... Everyday I'D BE LIKE: HEY DR.MENACE STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING! But Now Everytime I Go In There I just remind myself he's gone..."
Frogman Pats Javen on the back
Frogman: "Hey it's going to be ok! So Why Did You Want To Be In The Tournament in the first place?"
Javen: "Eh... To Meet Some New Friends Like you But not everyone does... Like That guy over there..."
Javen Was Pointing to Stickman Hero who was eating but then glared at Javen To Go Back eating again.
Javen: "The Pink sphere Only Tried To Eat Me... But Mostly... Everyone was chill!"
Meanwhile...
Frisk: "You Gonna Touch That Sandwich Flowey?"
Flowey: "I WANT TO CONSUME EVERYONE'S SOULS NOT THIS JUNK!"
Sanic.Exe: "ToO bAd BuDdY!"
Kirby: "I Want To Eat Everyone too... But I Can't You Know Why That boy in the jacket Injected Me With An Needle And I Blacked Out!"
Than All Of An Sudden...
JavenPlayz253: "NESS AND PLAYER, I Need Ness And Player You Two Are going too fight!
Ness And The Gmod Player Sat up Looked At Each Other And Walked Out To The Battle Ground.
JavenPlayz253: "Alright Now You Two Will be Fighting Too See who would fight Flowey Both of you have you're equipment Now You Go Over there and You Go Over there! Alright READY? SET? GO!"

The Rules Are Stated Here

Character:	Votes:
Ness	4

Gmod Player

0

Inconclusive

0

 

[Javenplayz253]

bump

 

[MintyBoi1]

Ness scales to 25.614 Kilotons and GMOD Guy to 38.7, LS is Class M vs Class K and Class T with the Physics Gun. So Ness loses out on physicality here. Both have a ton of abilities so I’m gonna try my hardest and see how they bounce off each other.

Both these guys seem to stick close while using their ranged and melee options. Ness resists electricity/paralysis and fire while Player resists poison and hot/cold temperatures. Ness has shields, fear/curse manipulation, regen, and durability negation via PK Flash which has 37.5% chance to cause enemies to cry uncontrollably, a 12.5% chance to paralyze, a 12.5% chance to make enemies feel strange, and a 37.5% chance to cause instant death, plus other things. Player has immortality/resurrection, intangibility, antimatter, flight, petrification, existence erasure, and more.

It seems Player has far better hax but Ness can defend himself better plus reflect attacks, heal himself, and easier inflict his hax since just brushing his teeth inflicts fear. And since Ness can telekinetically move objects while GMOD needs his gun to do that, Ness could steal it and anything else since he outclasses his LS physically. I feel like Ness can take out Player but I have no idea how he gets past resurrection. Then again, Ness refuses to kill anyways.

I won’t vote just yet but I’m leaning Ness.

 

[Froggytron]

That are some solid arguments right here ^

 

[Diamond_Drone]

So what can Ness do against a Player who can...

• Stop Ness from doing anything or even process the Player via Disable Thinking and Ignore Players (Which works even on machinery like Combine tech or Black Mesa security systems)
• Negate Durability with 3 seperate methods of existance erasure, those being Context, Toolgun and Cleanup (Toolgun arguably being most effective cause it can remove any entities attached to Ness or vice versa as well)
• Disable Ness or their own collision with Disable/Enable Collisions or just make themselves invulnerable with Players have god mode
• Freeze Ness with Make Statue, decrease their range with Smallify or make them a bigger target with Biggify
• Move with incredible mobility, especially with Noclip (which in the Admin key reaches... yeah)

Given Ness lacks resistances to most of those things and their PSI don't seem to provide any defenses against the Player's capabilities, I don't really see how the Player could really lose this. Considering Ness has a more pacifist nature while the Player, who might not be the most combat experienced considering their more "sandboxy" nature and them usually having control over which fights they choose to create/engage with, still goes for the more lethal attacks with their weaponry.

Ness can telekinetically move objects while GMOD needs his gun to do that

The Player does actually have telekinesis using Drive, but it's kinda weird to use (floaty movement) and also barely ever used... by anyone. I recall it only ever being used in a GMod video ONCE

 

[Javenplayz253]

Bro If I Don't Win I'm Fr Gonna Cry
(If You Play Gmod You know (Honestly It's Fairly Easy To Know Lol)

 

[MintyBoi1]

So what can Ness do against a Player who can...

• Stop Ness from doing anything or even process the Player via Disable Thinking and Ignore Players (Which works even on machinery like Combine tech or Black Mesa security systems)
• Negate Durability with 3 seperate methods of existance erasure, those being Context, Toolgun and Cleanup (Toolgun arguably being most effective cause it can remove any entities attached to Ness or vice versa as well)
• Disable Ness or their own collision with Disable/Enable Collisions or just make themselves invulnerable with Players have god mode
• Freeze Ness with Make Statue, decrease their range with Smallify or make them a bigger target with Biggify
• Move with incredible mobility, especially with Noclip (which in the Admin key reaches... yeah)

Given Ness lacks resistances to most of those things and their PSI don't seem to provide any defenses against the Player's capabilities, I don't really see how the Player could really lose this. Considering Ness has a more pacifist nature while the Player, who might not be the most combat experienced considering their more "sandboxy" nature and them usually having control over which fights they choose to create/engage with, still goes for the more lethal attacks with their weaponry.

Disable Thinking stops all entities except for players. I’m not sure if Ness counts, he’s a human so wouldn’t him fighting Player be like joining the lobby for him? If not, Player seemingly doesn’t resort to that instantly so who knows.

Ness could use his shields on the existence erasure options and respond before the Toolgun is used again. Cleanup is the same clause as Disable Thinking as well as time manipulation which Ness could benefit from as much as Player since it reverts all activity.

Make Statue could be bad, though Ness should still have his PK since it just makes limbs unable to move. A PK Flash could exploit that weakness in the ability. Biggify and Smallify don’t affect stats so that’s really a double edge sword. Player would just be more susceptible to being snuck up on and PK Flash’d if he made Ness small or more likely to be hit if he made Ness big.

Player can still be harmed with physical attacks and energy with Noclip. I feel PK Flash and other psychic abilities should count as energy. PK Rocking is specified to be an energy attack and PK Flash is light.

 

[Froggytron]

Now I took a closer look, this is the admin input, not the Player. Taking into account that he has: Invulnerability, Reality Warping, and unlimited Mind Manipulation, isn't this too much for all other 7-C participants? I see almost no way for 90% of them to beat him, maybe not even a single 1 can.

So I would be for switching him into Player key, which still is really haxed, but not at a point where he is an Invulnerable god in just a 7-C-themed tourney. Everyone which also think so please raise a hand, this could result in total tourney sweep

 

[MintyBoi1]

Also Ness can instantly rust machines so that’s another point, he may be the perfect counter. It’s a shame he only resists mind manipulation in a later key.

 

[Javenplayz253]

So I would be for switching him into Player key, which still is really haxed, but not at a point where he is an Invulnerable god in just a 7-C-themed tourney. Everyone which also think so please raise a hand, this could result in total tourney sweep

Snap
Key Changed!

 

[MintyBoi1]

Neither prior key is exactly 7-C, shouldn’t we just restrict Player’s reality warping since it’s a higher key anyways? Either way, voting Ness

 

[Froggytron]

Neither prior key is exactly 7-C, shouldn’t we just restrict Player’s reality warping since it’s a higher key anyways? Either way, voting Ness

Well, key should have been changed now. I will still wait with my vote till Diamond Drone forms a Players reply

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Now I took a closer look, this is the admin input, not the Player. Taking into account that he has: Invulnerability, Reality Warping, and unlimited Mind Manipulation, isn't this too much for all other 7-C participants? I see almost no way for 90% of them to beat him, maybe not even a single 1 can.

So I would be for switching him into Player key, which still is really haxed, but not at a point where he is an Invulnerable god in just a 7-C-themed tourney. Everyone which also think so please raise a hand, this could result in total tourney sweep

None of the Player's other keys are in the tier that this tournament is all about. Skybox is maybe the closest to that, but still overshoots it with by being High 7-C (which is creation, not standard AP that's actually used for fighting) and undershoots it by being in Tier 8 physically.

So either he actually fits into the tier that the Tourney requires and stomps everyone with potential insta-hax or be below the requirements and still potential stomp with his erasure and statues (or just Incon by nobody being able to stop their respawns?). I'm thinking more that he gets replaced by another character entirely instead given that he's no longer 7-C (or we keep Admin and hope Flower/Frisk somehow can defeat them)

 

[Javenplayz253]

Aight' Chat Do We Keep Admin Or Swap him out?

 

[MintyBoi1]

Drone, do you know what counts as reality warping for Player? If it’s not to much to restrict, we can keep this match on.

 

[Javenplayz253]

Actually I Do Have An Character In Mind

 

[Froggytron]

Aight' Chat Do We Keep Admin Or Swap him out?

If even Diamond Drone says it, swapping him would be for the best. Hopefully with another 7-C character (from FC or VS battles) that Diamond Drone knows and can argue with

 

[Javenplayz253]

None of the Player's other keys are in the tier that this tournament is all about. Skybox is maybe the closest to that, but still overshoots it with by being High 7-C (which is creation, not standard AP that's actually used for fighting) and undershoots it by being in Tier 8 physically.

So either he actually fits into the tier that the Tourney requires and stomps everyone with potential insta-hax or be below the requirements and still potential stomp with his erasure and statues (or just Incon by nobody being able to stop their respawns?). I'm thinking more that he gets replaced by another character entirely instead given that he's no longer 7-C (or we keep Admin and hope Flower/Frisk somehow can defeat them)

Do You Know Any 7-Cs That You Could Argue for That Would NOT Stomp The Tourney?

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Drone, do you know what counts as reality warping for Player? If it’s not to much to restrict, we can keep this match on.

The Player doesn't have Reality Warping outside of the Admin key (which also houses all the OP hax stuff) and it's pretty much the Potential Energy of the buildings they can produce. Even if restrict it, you would end up with a 8-B to 8-A character in a 7-C Tourney, kinda defeats the purpose of it right?

Do You Know Any 7-Cs That You Could Argue for That Would NOT Stomp The Tourney?

Unfortunately no, I don't really know any other 7-C's that exist on the FC/OC wiki right now and I'm pretty slow with creating new profiles. I only really replied here because "oh hey that's a profile I made" and you seem to have a character in mind so i'm more interested in seeing that instead.

 

[Javenplayz253]

The Player doesn't have Reality Warping outside of the Admin key (which also houses all the OP hax stuff) and it's pretty much the Potential Energy of the buildings they can produce. Even if restrict it, you would end up with a 8-B to 8-A character in a 7-C Tourney, kinda defeats the purpose of it right?

Unfortunately no, I don't really know any other 7-C's that exist on the FC/OC wiki right now and I'm pretty slow with creating new profiles. I only really replied here because "oh hey that's a profile I made" and you seem to have a character in mind so i'm more interested in seeing that instead.

Well I Got One

 

[MintyBoi1]

That can work but it seems like she gets slaughtered by Ness. Are there any win cons for her?

 

[Javenplayz253]

That can work but it seems like she gets slaughtered by Ness. Are there any win cons for her?

Perception It Might Be Possible For Her Perception to Be Slowed To See What Ness Is About to do.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Still not sure, she can’t stop his psychic powers, especially if he tries telekinesis on her sword.

 

[TheMassivlyUnkn0wn]

I'd like to bring up some uh. many misconceptions regarding this fight:

All of The Player's more out there haxes are fairly out of character (if you can even say they have a character) and whats IC is that they'd most likely be using their firearms.

That being said. Even with all these. The Player can still be incapacitated with PK Flash, which would instantly knock The Player out and render a win for Ness.

 

[Javenplayz253]

I'd like to bring up some uh. many misconceptions regarding this fight:

All of The Player's more out there haxes are fairly out of character (if you can even say they have a character) and whats IC is that they'd most likely be using their firearms.

That being said. Even with all these. The Player can still be incapacitated with PK Flash, which would instantly knock The Player out and render a win for Ness.

Aight' Finally
Ahem
"Ok" Fra

 

[MintyBoi1]

Alright, I think we can conclude this match then

 

[Froggytron]

SANS

I mean Ness FRA

 

[MintyBoi1]

Someone actually made a video with better evidence for that theory

 

[Javenplayz253]

Someone actually made a video with better evidence for that theory

NO WAY

 

[MintyBoi1]

Here

 

[Javenplayz253]

Here

I Thought you were going to pull an TheMassivlyUnkn0wn On Me

 

[Froggytron]

I Thought you were going to pull an TheMassivlyUnkn0wn On Me

Yeah, I clicked, then got struck what if the link leads to an unspoken vid (before it loaded)... thankfully Minty is a reliable guy. He wouldn't fool us

 

[MintyBoi1]

I Thought you were going to pull an TheMassivlyUnkn0wn On Me

I thought about it

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Ness fra

 

[Javenplayz253]

Ness fra

That Means That Could Bee Added Now Right?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

That Means That Could Bee Added Now Right?

Yes if 4 votes

 

[Diamond_Drone]

All of The Player's more out there haxes are fairly out of character (if you can even say they have a character) and whats IC is that they'd most likely be using their firearms.

This is true, though assuming they would never use it, especially their 3 EE options in a fight where "losing could have any range of dire consequences" is inaccurate to say the least. Though I will agree they will most likely start with their firearms.

That being said. Even with all these. The Player can still be incapacitated with PK Flash, which would instantly knock The Player out and render a win for Ness.

I don't know where you got "knock out" from Ness profile. PK Flash only states it has 37.5% chance to cause "Instant Death/Defeat" (Death on the VSbattle profile), which the Player can ignore with his respawns and then just counter by preventing Ness from thinking, and it's other effects cause paralysis (prevents only physical attacks), making the Player cry (reduces accuracy) or feel strange (makes them hit someone else, there is no one else). It's also reliant on chance while the Player's options are not

Disable Thinking stops all entities except for players. I’m not sure if Ness counts, he’s a human so wouldn’t him fighting Player be like joining the lobby for him?

I don't think Ness would count as a Player, given that an entity that uses the Player's name does exist in EarthBound and is called upon by Paula in "the spoiler territories". Human's are also summons available to the Player and they are definitely affected by the Admin Powers.

Ness could use his shields on the existence erasure options and respond before the Toolgun is used again. Cleanup is the same clause as Disable Thinking as well as time manipulation which Ness could benefit from as much as Player since it reverts all activity.

Nothing really suggests that the shields could block the Players EE options (Remove literally just removes the selected target and the Toolgun can just erase things attached to the target and vice versa). It is unknown what Cleanup would do in this sceneario, however even in the worst case (for the Player) they can still use it whenever and instantly, move about the arena and any benefit Ness MIGHT get from it is incredibly minor. The Player is unaffected by Cleanups, Ness and the world would be.

Make Statue could be bad, though Ness should still have his PK since it just makes limbs unable to move.

Actually while looking at the PK Flashes statuses, I found this thing called "Solidified". I think it would be accurate to say that Make Statue gives that given what it is called and a visible rock effect happens on the target.

Player can still be harmed with physical attacks and energy with Noclip. I feel PK Flash and other psychic abilities should count as energy.

Agreed (I actually realized that as I wrote my first reply to this thread, whoops!), though given the Player can make themselves Invulnerable with god mode it makes any argument involving physicallity or potency irrelevant.

Also no proof was provided that Disable Thinking and Ignore Players doesn't effect entities not created by the Player.

 

[MintyBoi1]

This is true, though assuming they would never use it, especially their 3 EE options in a fight where "losing could have any range of dire consequences" is inaccurate to say the least. Though I will agree they will most likely start with their firearms.

I do agree they may come into play at some point, though Ness has fear, curse, telekinesis to take the tool gun, and reducing accuracy to affect the player. Looking at the Earthbound wiki, I found there’s also a chance PK Flash makes Player numb which would make wielding their weapons very hard. There’s just as good a chance of Ness killing Player as making them cry which would help Ness greatly. Honestly, besides Death, none of PK Flash’s effects harm Ness more than they help. Even Strangeness could potentially make Player attack any allies he summons or them attack him and make an opening for Ness to deal damage.

I don't think Ness would count as a Player, given that an entity that uses the Player's name does exist in EarthBound and is called upon by Paula in "the spoiler territories". Human's are also summons available to the Player and they are definitely affected by the Admin Powers.

Nothing really suggests that the shields could block the Players EE options (Remove literally just removes the selected target and the Toolgun can just erase things attached to the target and vice versa). It is unknown what Cleanup would do in this sceneario, however even in the worst case (for the Player) they can still use it whenever and instantly, move about the arena and any benefit Ness MIGHT get from it is incredibly minor. The Player is unaffected by Cleanups, Ness and the world would be.

Odd thing is I just watched an Earthbound play though a few months ago, and I completely forgot about that. So that could be a good win con for Player if they think to use it over other options.

I don’t think the shields would block the erasure, but rather tank them for Ness. I don’t think we can count a field around him as necessarily attached to him, so that could let Ness know to dodge and/or take the Toolgun from Player. Player could select Ness, but the shield could also be counted, plus reflection. Primary fire removes the object you are looking at. Also, unless I’m wrong, can’t the Toolgun only erase objects or people the Player created?

Actually while looking at the PK Flashes statuses, I found this thing called "Solidified". I think it would be accurate to say that Make Statue gives that given what it is called and a visible rock effect happens on the target.

Solidified states it prevents movement but not PSI; there’s another effect called Stone, but that seems to be a version from the first Mother game, so don’t think we can say Make Statue would more likely inflict that than solidify.

Agreed (I actually realized that as I wrote my first reply to this thread, whoops!), though given the Player can make themselves Invulnerable with god mode it makes any argument involving physicallity or potency irrelevant.
Also no proof was provided that Disable Thinking and Ignore Players doesn't effect entities not created by the Player.

Invulnerability seems bad for Ness. If Player thinks to use that, Ness only really has his hax, most of which can’t kill and if he does kill Player, that isn’t the end of the fight.

Those could be win cons, but Ness still has his which I think are more likely just because he has less options to sort through and seems more strategic in character, being a genius combat and academics wise.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I thought we were in grace already

 

[MintyBoi1]

We are but it seems Player still has good arguments