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Quick Accel CRT to clear things up

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So there's this debate about whether Accel can control rebounding forces, and whether he has ever done it. The answer, is yes to both. In NT22, for instance, when he physically attacks Coronzon and she seemingly gets an attack through, this is what occurs:

But she had avoided a direct hit to the face. Her absurdly long hair had formed several bundles that layered themselves in front of her. Each of those bundles and even each individual hair bent and negated the vector that should have passed through it. A strange sensation ran through Accelerator's fist and back through his bones, like he had punched a powerful spring.

And.

"Ee hee. Nee hee hee. Kee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee."

Something like a balloon inflated and burst in the center of the #1's chest.

This was not blood, flesh, or bone.

It was something more invisible, harder to understand, and yet of great importance.

"Tch!!"

"I am a demon, but not from the Qliphoth. I am the Great Demon that dwells in the Abyss of the Sephiroth. The Sephiroth's 10 Sephirah and 22 pathways are also a conversion table for producing the supernatural by connecting the great universe of the world with the small universe of the body. Do you feel it? An arm is formed from Chesed and Gevurah and its five fingers control the five elements. The middle finger controls fire and the red of blood, which symbolizes the activity of the heart. You made a mistake when you accepted the rebounding force to measure how much damage you had done, one who remains in the human realm."

Literally in the text. The reason the damage passed through to begin with was due to him accepting the rebounding force back into himself .Meaning that, yes, he /does/ reflect rebounding forces in the first place. He has demonstrated this before as well in OT13 with, as I've mentioned, the building. Example: https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-06-2015/pTIzsZ.mp4

We see here his hand /sinks/ into the building. If he had been acting with kinetic energy or any other forces, there would've been a hole. However his hand sunk into it, and this isn't limited to the anime. It's in the light novel as well, which further cements the use of rebound forces.

https://i.gyazo.com/c910955a27ccd939d6181601e7569612.png

Notice the usage of language and what it means. 'Sunk' is specifically used rather than 'break' or 'forced'. And it's reinforced by the verb 'Sank'. Further more it's paired with 'tofu'. If it were used with any other forces, the wall would've had a crater or more debris. But that clearly was not the case. This is the effect of redirecting the rebounding force back into the target to bypass, and 'sink' through the opponent. But since the building is stationary, it doesn't really move back to begin with.

It's a similie. The use of expressions, wordplay. But the NT22 feat is far more direct.

Anyways, TL;DR:

That's why Striking should be High 1-C. AS of right now, the limit we put his vector limit to is High 1-C. So the amount of energy he can control when given is that much, meaning, the rebounding force he can work with his that much as well.

I notice there's a misconception here on what people think this means. This is not a method that /loops/ so the speak. If Accel is punching someone with Galaxy level durability, he is not going to loop it until it hits Universal. That's not how this works.

It's a cause and effect, with the effect being redirected until it can break through so there's no rebounding force to ennact on. The opponent gives off energy, Accel takes that energy, doubles it, and uses it. It's literally the basics of his ability. Which is why it should be 1-C. Doesn't mean he will be punching Planet levels with 1-C shit, because it'd only scale above their durability to guard-break and bypass them. It won't turn them to paste. Therefore, it's, largely, not that different from many of his other means of bypassing durabiltiy, but it'd be ludicrious to overlook this.

So:

Striking Strength should be High 1-C. Lifting should be Infinite for the same reasons because it doesn't matter how heavy something he is lifting is. So long as they produce vectors it's the same thing. Vectors have no durability nor are they harder to calculate the stronger they get. Because they are a mathematical formula at its most basic.

This time, if people have a problem, /PLEASE/ actually speak. And, as far as I'm concerned, if the text literally states that he can control rebounding forces, there's literally 0 reason to believe this method has never once been used or not canon to him.
 
i have some problem, no with this but with how the profile was edited, some info were removed and added without a CTR like : Empathy/Madness Immunity: Perhaps as a side-effect of his heightened magical awareness, Nephthys's Tears of Transmission were incapable of affecting Accelerator's psychological state, and Qliphah's mental corruption from her dress did nothing when he looked directly at them. Note that this is limited to transmission-based techniques, such as those requiring visual contact.


1) it does not make sense, it's not transmissions based, 2) is not madness but corruption, people need to read carefully as that was another effect

other such example are pre head shot accel having : very limited control over remote vectors

when only post head shot showed it
 
Does he reflect the rebounding force of his strikes? Yes.

Does it infinitely loop to levels above infinity? Hell, no.


His hand sinking in the building is btw. also nothing that reflecting rebounding force would cause.


Anyways, at no point in the novel is the "infinite reflection loop" used and it would physically hold either unless accelerator creates at least 2 points of redirection for it, which again, is a specific application he would need to demonstrate.

To that comes that such a loop would never get past infinity meaning it would never reach levels above 3-A and even that would just take lots of time.

Accel has hit plently people without his punch going through them and killing them. It's nothing the novel supports.


So yeah, this is as much fanfiction as "every electricity manipulator can manipulate magnetism, because his power technically lets him do that".
 
DontTalkDT said:
Does he reflect the rebounding force of his strikes? Yes.
Does it infinitely loop to levels above infinity? Hell, no.


His hand sinking in the building is btw. also nothing that reflecting rebounding force would cause.


Anyways, at no point in the novel is the "infinite reflection loop" used and it would physically hold either unless accelerator creates at least 2 points of redirection for it, which again, is a specific application he would need to demonstrate.

To that comes that such a loop would never get past infinity meaning it would never reach levels above 3-A and even that would just take lots of time.

Accel has hit plently people without his punch going through them and killing them. It's nothing the novel supports.


So yeah, this is as much fanfiction as "every electricity manipulator can manipulate magnetism, because his power technically lets him do that".
Can you tell me when I said it would infinitely loop? What do you even mean 2 points of redirection?

Bad forces come at him, he redirects, bad force still there, he redirects that energy again until it breaks through. It doesn't loop endlessly because it doesn't have to. It should break through from the first reflection anyways or at least cause damage. It's a scaling gimmick.

I dunno what to tell you because, the novel states clearly, that rebounding forces is a thing. No one is saying it infinitely loops that high. It'll be that high or higher depending on who he's punching.

If it's nothing it would cause, tell me what forces were at work to create a phenomenon like that. He circulates his hand specifically to push inward like that.
 
@DontTalkDT You really need to pay attention to what you're reading. Nothing on this CRT even remotely implies there's a feedback loop going on. it scales to the enemy's durability. To quote:

I notice there's a misconception here on what people think this means. This is not a method that /loops/ so the speak. If Accel is punching someone with Galaxy level durability, he is not going to loop it until it hits Universal. That's not how this works.
 
Also, Ant has stated that if we place Accel's striking strength at 1-C we have to change his AP to 1-C as well, because it makes no sense otherwise. That's the entire reason the page was locked.

I'm gonna have to ask: is this really a wise decision? Because if we change his AP, we also have to change his Tiering too. That would be very misleading and lead to some truly terrible matchups.
 
Yup, Ant briefly unlocked it so I could insert the rebound explanation. The statistics will remain the same however. I think this should be the last changes we need until 2020 rolls around LOL

And @Malox I moved the "remote vectors" tidbit from Pre to Post headshot. And visual-contact counts as transmission-based. You have to LOOK at the Tears in order to be affected. It's certainly not a passive ability.
 
Tbh I don't believe most passives will work either in the first place as Accel has demonstrated ability activations inside his field don't work already. But that's a CRT for another day and I wanna be done with this until Part 3. I'll always stand by the fact that it'd require the absolute abstract sort of thing like collective unconscious stuff or absolutely mental specifics. Generic mind hax and the like likely won't work. But yeah, the profile is fine as it is.
 
Well yeah even if it's passive hax it'll get reflected if it has vectors. That's why it's placed under Reflection, because it's not an innate resistance. Nothing we already didn't know.

Also, this reminds me of that time Scrlk666777 and I changed his AP and Tier to 1-C. I still cringe at that memory. Wasn't he matched up against Nanashi from SMT?
 
545 was not transmission, her dress simply has deep knowledge of magic on it and untrained mind would be corrupted by it, accel literally knew 1 spell he copy pasted and barely knew the general of magic works, by all accounts he should have become a vegetable right there, he didn't so his power must have negated the effect on his brain

The madness aura might have vectors tho
 
"so his power must have negated the effect on his brain" .....it's still vector-based brain hacking. I'm really not in the mood to be playing word games, Malox. As far as I'm concerned, it makes no difference. If you wanna change it that badly, go talk to Ant.

Also, her dress was compared to the dangerous knowledge in a Grimoire. I'm pretty sure the reason why Accel was unaffected was because of that big brain of his. And passive resistance is already covered under the Internal Spell Immunity section. Goodbye.
 
... u don't get it do u ? Not the reflection field, his passive control over his body vectors and routines negated the effect by keeping the brain uncorrupted by removing the dangerous info

545 corruption has no vectors, it's no different from when u were kid and someone wrote "ur mom is fat" u fell bad but it's the meaning of the words, not that the works themselves are sending u bad signals

Have u ever watched any sci fi movie where the characters takes a alien book but the knowledge is too much and "fries" the brain ? This is no different
 
ACTIVE control of vectors and PASSIVE filtering of vectors are the SAME powers, just APPLIED a different way. Like I said, Brain-Hacking is already listed in his profile as well as Internal Spell Immunity. We're going around in circles. I'm done with this thread.
 
DestinyDude0 said:
Also, Ant has stated that if we place Accel's striking strength at 1-C we have to change his AP to 1-C as well, because it makes no sense otherwise. That's the entire reason the page was locked.
I'm gonna have to ask: is this really a wise decision? Because if we change his AP, we also have to change his Tiering too. That would be very misleading and lead to some truly terrible matchups.
Probably not because of the mismatches that will happen. While techincally Accelerator should have High 1-C AP depending on the vectors he comes into contact with, most higher tiers will destroy Accelerator.

Accelerator is a bit of a tricky one when it comes to this.
 
Glad to see this thread instantly going off-topic.

Accelerate420 said:
Can you tell me when I said it would infinitely loop? What do you even mean 2 points of redirection? Bad forces come at him, he redirects, bad force still there, he redirects that energy again until it breaks through. It doesn't loop endlessly because it doesn't have to. It should break through from the first reflection anyways or at least cause damage. It's a scaling gimmick.
That's where you're wrong. What would happen in reality is: He punches something -> that something flies backwards. There is no "bad force still there". Unless you somehow fixate the target into place using a higher than planetary force aka a second point of reflection, as no other thing in the solar system could do that.

You need an infinite loop because if you somehow had someone fixated like that, and that someone has High 3-A+ dura, each time the rebounding force is reflected the force of the punch only doubles, meaning he needs to do that infinite times to generate a force higher than that which holds the material the opponent is made up together.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/f/f6/Reboundpunch2.gif/revision/latest?cb=20191008225010[/IMG][/URL]
If it's nothing it would cause, tell me what forces were at work to create a phenomenon like that. He circulates his hand specifically to push inward like that.

The rebounding force thing would just break the wall like normal. It's just non described manipulation of vectors. Many ways to accomplish that with wall level vector control.

DestinyDude0"] @DontTalkDT You really need to pay attention to what you're reading. Nothing on this CRT even remotely implies there's a feedback loop going on. it scales to the enemy's durability. To quote:

I notice there's a misconception here on what people think this means. This is not a method that /loops/ so the speak. If Accel is punching someone with Galaxy level durability, he is not going to loop it until it hits Universal. That's not how this works.
The rebounding force of hitting an opponent with galaxy level durability with planet level force is planet level. So the attack would only get stronger by a factor of 2. Unless you claim a feedback loop.
 
it would loop on itself just not infinitely, cause as the strength is now x2 by 3rd law object need to increase to match until it moves or breaks
 
This thread went off topic because the argument is over and done with due to what Antasma said. Also because arguing this is a pain and I'm too lazy to care at this point on what you think or claim is a headcanon.
 
That's where you're wrong. What would happen in reality is: He punches something ---> that something flies backwards.

So you mean that Accelerator has infinite lifting strength, since the force applied onto his shield would be reflected and push the enemy backwards. Weight is a vector after all, and there's no need for a feedback loop when it comes to the shield's durability.

Okay then.
 
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