Questioning Universal JoJo

[Firephoenixearl]

If GER had 3-D hax, it would revert back to the point where Diavolo thought about erasing time. But, its just 3-D hax so it should not be able to interact with space-time, meaning that the erased time would remain erased. So when time flows normally again, the time skipping would still occur. Since that isn't the case, GER's CM is clearly 4-D.

Yes we went back to Diavolo not thinking about erasing time. So time was "never erased".

GER didn't restore anything, he just made it so that it was never erased, cus no one thought about erasing it. Diavolo's time erasure needs a "cause" which GER undid.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

No we didn't dude. GER winds back actions, not time. Your interpretation has no grounding in the source material.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Anyway his can only go bad. Imma unfollow this, don't want to turn this into a war.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Anyway his can only go bad. Imma unfollow this, don't want to turn this into a war.

You're not going to use my meme?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nah, it's your meme, you use it, take the credit. xD

 

[TacticalNuke002]

 

[DMB_1]

I am honestly starting to think that restricting this "unspecified time-stop = Universal range" just to Jojo is not very practical and that a more general thread should be made about it, otherwise this thread might just never end.

Ok, I did it myself:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2833747

 

[Ogbunabali]

The reason why they have Universal range isn't because "it's just unspecified".

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

That is exactly why they have universal range. Unspecified range on time manipulation = universal by default.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I meant that wasn't the only justification for it.

 

[DMB_1]

It's still one of the OP's and some of the others' main points.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Anyways in the other thread we have people agreeing unanimously that time stop means universal by default. It also seems that TataHakai and Triforce (the two strongest supporters against) have ditched the thread, so I propose that we conclude that aspect.

The focus of the thread is now on Diavolo and Giorno's shenanigans, of which I have no strong opinion for and against as of now.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Hax shouldn't be in AP. I still stand by that and not only for Jojo but every profile out there.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

That's unreasonable as AP is also a general measure of potency of hax.

For example, a character with 5-A ice manipulation is stronger than a character with 9-C ice maniplation. If they were to attempt to blast each other with identically shaped ice beams, the 5-A would certainly overwhelm the 9-C.

Another relevant example is time manipulation. If you can manipulate the flow of time on a 1-B level, you most certainly overpower and overwhelm the 2-A time manipulator with the same ability.

This isn't the case for every hax, but most of them fall under this umbrella.

 

[Ogbunabali]

A character shouldn't get a tier just because they have one hax that's powerful.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

He doesn't get the tier, the ability gets the tier since it has 2-B or whatever AP.

It's there so if we ever see a 2-A manipulator or something of the sorts, we know which one is quantitatively superior.

 

[PaChi2]

Its JoJo.

It just works.

 

[Ogbunabali]

He doesn't get the tier, the ability gets the tier since it has 2-B or whatever AP.
It's there so if we ever see a 2-A manipulator or something of the sorts, we know which one is quantitatively superior.

Exactly my point.

 

[DMB_1]

Hax like Mind Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Absorption, and Soul manipulation can't be tiered as 1-B for example just because you can affect a 45h dimensional being.

Same applies to Giorno here: his Causality manipulation is definitely way above your average one, but that doesn't give such an ability a Tier.

And pretty much everyone has agreed to remove it.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

@DMB 1 not sure about that since 1-B physiology is not the same as 3-D physiology. If you can somehow manipulate a brain existing across 45h dimensions, you deserve 1-B mind manip.

I'm not sure of the Giorno arguments right now though, so it's not a vote in any way. Just pointing out the error in your logic.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

We really shouldn't be doing memes peeps.

Even if that's friggin hilarious no matter what context

 

[DMB_1]

@DMB 1 not sure about that since 1-B physiology is not the same as 3-D physiology. If you can somehow manipulate a brain existing across 45h dimensions, you deserve 1-B mind manip.

Yes, the ability will have 1-B potency, but it won't be listed on the profile as "1-B via Mind Manipulation" as a tier.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Then how will we readily know how strong his mind manipulation is?

I get where you're coming from, I can just see the sides of both arguments. This is just a formatting issue to be honest.

 

[Agnaa]

Then how will we readily know how strong his mind manipulation is?

By reading feats. It's unfeasible to list tiers for all the powers of characters.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

That's fine then I suppose, I agree.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Anyways in the other thread we have people agreeing unanimously that time stop means universal by default. It also seems that TataHakai and Triforce (the two strongest supporters against) have ditched the thread, so I propose that we conclude that aspect.
The focus of the thread is now on Diavolo and Giorno's shenanigans, of which I have no strong opinion for and against as of now.

But I was agreeing with you lol. Only thing I was against was that unspecified timestop=Universal, but that in JoJo's case it was fine.

 

[IvoryAS]

I would say something, but everything I've had an genuine opinion on is solved, so I'll just be following for now.

 

[JohnConquest1]

I dunno really where I stand on this I think listing a tier for abilities is good because explaining where the character stands and all. But I also know it's not that easy to define or a good idea to do with abilities that tier jump or are hard conventionally to describe.