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Regarding Time Manipulation/Time Stop and range

DMB_1

DMB_1

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An issue brought up in this thread:

So, according to some people, if Time Stop or any other form of Time Manipulation has no specified range, o the limits of which aren't shown or stated, this ability/abilities should be assumed to have Universal Range (which may also be High Universal or even universal+ depending on the ability) by the virtue of affecting "all of time", even if the range itself is unspecified.

  • For example: if someone uses time-stop, and everything around him seems to be affected, and the limits of this ability's range aren't showed nor stated, then it should be assumed to have Universal range because stopping time would usually mean stopping "all of time", aka "all of the Universe's time".
According to others though, this shouldn't be the case, for 2 cases

  • We don't usually list abilities like Time Stop or Time Manipulation in the Range section (but that's kind of beside the point)
  • It would be an NLF to assume that a temporal ability would automatically affect all of time in the universe if it's not specifically shown or stated, and thus it should probably have either "Unknown" or "Planetary" Range
So the question is: which one of the two assumptions do we make when treating abilities like those?
 
This would effect a lot of people if I'm not mistaken.
 
Thing is that by stating to affect time itself in any way, you're implying that you affect all of time. Like saying that time stands still, you imply that, well, time as a whole is stopped, not that a tiny bit of time is stopped.

Plus, time stop on a local scale would eventually creatue irregularities with the sun and other celestial bodies, irregularities that aren't implied at all in most works. This is especially bad with long-term time stops.

Of course local time manip exists, but I don't like the idea of assuming it's the case for all time stops.
 
Another thing to consider is that we generally assume time acceloration or slowing applies to the whole time flow, so we should do the same for time stop.
 
I can see your point, though I personally woukldn't go into the scientific/physical aspect of this "localized time-manipulation thing", for reasons I've mentined here.

DMB 1 said:
I wouldn't into the scientifical/realistic department, because fiction suffers a lot from it:
Realistically, if I were to create a wormhole in my room, the wormhole would seem like it's moving away: that's because of the Earth's rotation, which wouldn't affect it.

Same thing with localized time-stop: if I use time-stop on a specific place, the Earth would still move, and the time-stopped area wouldn't.

The issue? Well, I've never seen cases like those in fiction.
Click to expand...
 
It's not just a science problem, this is outright a logic problem. If you stop only the Earth, the moon will keep spinning, the galaxy will keep rotating, everything outside of the Earth will keep moving. Having the Earth lag behind other celestial bodies would **** up a lot of thing.

It's just silly to require fiction to show us that none of this happens just to "prove" that all of time is stopped instead of a single spot only. It's also just silly to assume that a time stop that is treated as stopping everything to just randomly stop into space or something.
 
Add to that that our solar system moves at 828.000 km/h. You can imagine the problems with time stopping the Earth only would do.
 
I think Saikou makes sense. Unless if stated or shown otherwise (such as it only affects a specific target), time stop can be assumed that time in the whole universe is stopped.
 
I don't know why it wouldn't be considered a universal time stop unless otherwise stated or shown. Though, I don't really think this should go on every single profile that uses Time Stop or Time Slow. Rather, this might affect the ability pages themselves, at least to clarify that time stops on a universal scale in most cases unless it's proven otherwise.
 
Unless it's something like The Lord Ruler's time bubbles, I also would assume universal. As others have pointed out, even planetary time stop would leave earth all alone at some random point in space.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
It probably should be
Click to expand...
Because of this, and because of the fatc that people agree with Saikou, this thread should be turned into a CRT and if accepted, then put a not on both Time Manipulation and Time-Stop that explains this.
 
Saikou basically summed up what I've been saying in said threat at least five times now.

The burden is on you to prove why it isn't universal as by default, referencing time as a general means the entirety of its existance throughout the universe.
 
So yeah, this thread should probably be changed into a CRT first.
 
So, if this gets accepted, I would suggest doing this:

  • Writing in the Note section of Time Manipulation and Time Stop that, if a character has those abilities, unless they are shown or stated to have limits in terms of range, or that their range expands to areas beyond the universe, then their range is assumed to be universal or higher by the virtue of affecting the very flow of time itself, thus all of time in the universe.
Though I would like someone like Ant to give their opinion on this.
 
I think it should defintively mentioned Saikou's point about Time Stop and Time Being the rating your proposed otherwise it would created creating irregularities with the sun and other celestial bodies, irregularities that aren't implied at all in most works and Earth lags- Having the Earth lag behind other celestial bodies would mess a lot of things. The other points look fine, DMB 1. .
 
DMB 1 said:
Though I would like someone like Ant to give their opinion on this.
Click to expand...
You can message other staff members to comment here.
 
I am uncertain regarding this subject. My apologies.

Saikou makes sense, but fiction is also illogical regarding these kind of things.
 
I think it 's fine, then. The note that DMB 1 mentioned could be added as suggested, in my opinion.
 
Please link to your additions.
 
DMB 1 said:
So, if this gets accepted, I would suggest doing this:
  • Writing in the Note section of Time Manipulation and Time Stop that, if a character has those abilities, unless they are shown or stated to have limits in terms of range, or that their range expands to areas beyond the universe, then their range is assumed to be universal or higher by the virtue of affecting the very flow of time itself, thus all of time in the universe.
Though I would like someone like Ant to give their opinion on this.
Click to expand...
Basically, it is this note summarized, Antvasima
 
Okay. I am uncertain about habitually declaring that small scale superpowered people with time stop powers can always affect the entire universe unless proven otherwise though. Fiction usually doesn't care about making sense in that regard. Is it really necessary to give all of them a range for the time stop, rather than leave it somewhat unspecified?
 
"Small scaled" superpowered people isn't really much of a reason against it. We just don't scale their other abilities to the range of their time stop, and having more range wouldn't equate to having more potency.

Unless the time stop is shown or stated to be focused in a localized area, then it can be assumed that the time stop would stop time across the whole universe. Generally time would be referred to as a whole, and fiction not making sense doesn't mean we randomly assume anything would work radically different from real life unless we have actual reason to. As users have mentioned above, if we assume a time stop only works on a planetary scale for example, by extension we would also assume Earth's position would lag behind in its orbit, or we assume the Earth magically teleported back into its normal position. That takes more assumptions than simply stating that time as a whole across the universe was stopped, so that once the time stop is over, everything else goes on as normal.
 
Perhaps, but I am still leaning towards a lack of story logic consistency for these things.
 
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