Puella Magi misc revisions 3

[SomebodyData]

The issue here is that everyone else was. Sayaka is the only one with her original memories, something not even Nagisa does. Heck, Sayaka and Nagisa weren't even supposed to be there originally, not to mention they (thanks to UM's power and memories respectively) were able to come back from the memory manipulation originally, so it's entirely possible that the same thing happened here.

It's pretty safe to assume he was referring to her peak, given A- The Universe wasn't destroyed by UKG just being there and B- UKG wasn't even born yet when he said it, so unless Madoka's grief seed = Ultimate Madoka's Hope, it seems heavily unlikely that it would refer to anything but UKG's peak.

 

[Kaltias]

Yes, what makes me uncertain is the fact that i don't know if it works the same way, mostly due to Akuma Homura not mindscrewing herself in the process (Which Homulilly did)

Low 2-C curses =/= Universe bust via standing here though. It just means that she has that power. Her 2-A curses also needed time to destroy the multiverse (WHich is more or less why it's still there)

Also, it's completely possible that Kyubey simply knew how strong she was.

"The amount of hope equal to creating a new universe was reached, but that also means despair equal to ending a universe" really does seem "She is Low 2-C right now".

Low 2-C curses at her peak also kinda contradict the whole upscaling thing otherwise.

 

[SomebodyData]

Do they ever actually explain how Homura forgot she was a witch? Looking through the transcript, Kyubey only mentions she forgot she was a witch, but never how (Halfway through Chapter 21). Homura then proceeds to lose her memory again because of her transformation to a witch, rather than her mind hax, which makes it sound more like the transformation made her lose her memories originally (End of Chapter 22 in the transcript).

Also, apparently Kyubey can read peoples' memories and apparently can see the potential futures (Likely through intellect rather any ability).

"The most interesting of these is a girl who isn't recorded in any past memory and who isn't a future possibility either." (Chapter 21)

She was leaking curses the entire time she was there, you can see it affecting space. Her 2-A curses needed time because they had to be absorbed by the AoC from UKG first tho, which is different then it already being there.

Like I said before, he said it before UKG wasn't even born at that time. So assuming he meant "She is Low 2-C right now" is impossible.

Well curses aren't inherently an ability, especially ap wise, so it wouldn't contradict anything. The same can be stated for Ultimate Madoka's hope (Unless you want to argue Low 2-C Ultimate Madoka).

 

[Kaltias]

Wouldn't be the first time that Homura memory hax herself, she did during the WA.

Telepathy allows mind reading, no?

Yes but the curses aren't an instant process that takes no time flat. AoC wasn't destroying anything passively. It would have done so when reaching full power.

Read "right now" as "we don't have to wait".

 

[Kaltias]

Also why AoC has Immeasurable speed at peak?

I don't recall anything saying that it would become a copy of UKG

And when has Charlotte tanked attacks from Mami? I distinctly remember the bullets piercing her body.

 

[SomebodyData]

She had to actively memory hax herself back then tho.

Ye, but it's more of a specification.

The difference is that AoC was containing the curses whereas UKG was visibly releasing it and visibly affecting space. If the curses alone were capable of doing so, it should have affected it by then.

Which is still within the Full Power range, given we don't actually know how long it would have taken thanks Ultimate Madoka's intervention.

I think it was stated several times that the AoC would become the "true witch" and was implied several times (They only refer to UKG as a witch and "the thing") I could check if you want.

I believe that comes from Different Story or Homura's Revenge, she only pierced her "fake body" in the series.

 

[Kaltias]

AoC was becoming a "true witch", but that doesn't mean that it was becoming UKG.

Mami killed her in DS. And pretty sure that she damaged her in HR, so it's by no means a "completely impervious to the attacks" kind of situation.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'll check, but I'm pretty sure they showed scenes of UKG when they were talking about what AoC would eventually do and become.

I'll check Homura's Revenge too once I get home.

 

[Kaltias]

They did not, unless I'm remembering something wrong.

Even then without a statement saying that it would become a perfect copy we can't scale it. As far as we know it could look the same and that's it.

 

[SomebodyData]

I currently only have access to Chapter 9 on my phone, but they do show UKG when talking about AoC's transformation. (The page is 031.png)

I mean, it would be a bigger stretch to assume it was only transforming appearance wise rather than gaining its stats, especially considering that the stats come from the curses and that AoC would gain 2-A levels of power just like UKG.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I'm sorry if this is off topic, but what would happen if we, for example, get a good High-End MHS+ movement feat from magia record?

Would it scales to everyone else or exclusively to the one who did the feat?

 

[SomebodyData]

It would depend on who did it and when. If it was someone like Kyoko, canonically before she gets doppel or enhanced, then she would scale off to everyone with a 4 in the speed rating. If it was someone enhanced, then at best we could put a "Likely MHS+" in some of the enhanced profiles.

 

[Kaltias]

2-A power =/= equal to UKG in stats though.

Even more so when peak AoC isn't equal to UKG in raw power anyway

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

@SD Thanks.

 

[SomebodyData]

I was mostly referring to the peak Pre-Wraith Arc.

I mean, even then it would be strange to assume AoC gets the Tier and AP but not much else. So assuming AoC gets that removed, she would just be changed to "Can eventually reach Tier 2-A" and thats basically the only thing she'll have? Seems like we're forgetting something here...

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Didn't the upscaling affected AoC as well?

 

[SomebodyData]

I mean... yes? AoC is a corrupted wraith which would probably mean no but apparently upscaling is considered normal in other verses and AoC does run on curses afterall.

 

[Kaltias]

Pre-Wraith Arc peak is still far above AoC though.

I mean maybe, but scaling AoC from UKG is scaling an avatar to the one behind it, which we don't do.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I mean, aren't we questioning AoC speed here? I thought being a 2-A automatically grants you immeasurable speed at the very least.

 

[SomebodyData]

Really? I thought it was only >>>>> Ultimate Madoka?

I mean, the difference here is that the one behind it wants to give the avatar basically every curse it has.

 

[Kaltias]

@Homu

It doesn't. AP and speed aren't intertwined.

@SD

Madoka has better feats than AoC. It was going to replicate the "destroy the multiverse" feat, which isn't Madoka's best feat. Encompassing existence and nonexistence within the LoC is.

The thing is that we don't know what this entails in terms of speed.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I thought a 4-D being has Immeasurable speed by default?

 

[Kaltias]

Not necessarily. Most of the Saint Seiya top tiers are 4-D but are MFTL+.

 

[SomebodyData]

Nope @Homu

@Kalitas which isn't higher to that much of an extreme.

I mean, I guess? We do know UKG becomes faster as it amasses the curses hence the size as well.

 

[Kaltias]

Yes but it means that peak AoC is far behind pre-Wraith Arc peak UKG as well.

Yes but if we used that logic 5-B AoC would be infinite in speed because it has the same amount of curses as 5-B UKG and it clearly isn't.

UKG grows in power and speed, yes, but we don't know if the power + speed growth works the same for AoC

 

[SomebodyData]

Where does the triggered come from lol

But I'm okay with the downgrade then, go ahead.

 

[RKGenki]

Btw I reread the last chapter of wraith arc, it is stated multiple times by Homura's powers that both her and Madoka trascended the laws of the world. Is that just another acausality feat or could it mean some form of resistance to law manip via trascending the laws themselves?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

So what is the verdict?

 

[RKGenki]

@Homu from the looks of it peak AoC's downgrade seems confirmed

 

[Kaltias]

@SD

I wanted to post a meme ovo

@Genki

It's most likely acausality.

@Homu

Peak AoC's speed gets hit with the nerf hammer.

Probably something like "Unknown at its peak (Would be likely much faster at peak, but the exact degree is unknown).

Also we still need to discuss Charlotte's dura

 

[SomebodyData]

Just checked Homura's Revenge

Charlotte gets hurt by Mami's normal attacks and arm cannons, but then takes a Tiro Finale to her mouth (Same way Homura killed her in the main series) and just makes another dupe. Then, Homura has to unleash RPGs in a fashion similar to her fight with Walpurgis to kill Charlotte, when originally it only took a bomb. Seems like each dupe is stronger than the last, which explains why its durability is rather inconsistent.

Also, that reminded me, nearly everything happens in Homura's Revenge, even how fast Homura would get to Mami, is noted in Kyubey's plan to get Madoka to turn into a magical girl. He manipulates essentially everyone to a pretty disturbing degree, might be noteworthy as a feat for Kyubey.

 

[Kaltias]

Then the durability should be fine.

I suppose that we can add it to Kyubey's profile? It isn't that impressive for his standards tbh.

Also, Homulilly probably doesn't get soul immunity, given that her soul was still a thing (Good luck affecting it, but still)