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Project Zomboid Downgrade

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Mr. Bambu

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A good amount of the Project Zomboid player profile appears to have been edited without a proper CRT. Thus, we fix it.

This CRT aims to correct the many, many, many errors present in the Project Zomboid profiles on our wiki. Some time back I had fixed them up and thought the matter settled, but there are dozens upon dozens of non-allowed edits that have drip-fed in various abilities. I intend to just work down the page, removing what shouldn't be present.

Let's begin.

  • Construction (The player is able to build or secure a safe house with certain carpentry skills and tools): Quoting the page: "This power should only be listed when it is clear that the character can do it in a brief amount of time or in the middle of a battle. If the character needs considerable time to build their structures, Preparation should be listed. Construction should under no circumstances be given to a character who does not show the supernatural ability to build structures in a very brief timespan." The Project Zomboid player may be particularly adroit by some considerations, but most definitely does not possess either supernatural speed in their construction or the ability to do so mid-combat. This is covered by Preparation.
  • Electricity Manipulation (A player with a level 2 "Mechanic" skill or a player with the "Burglar" occupation could hotwire cars): This is not Electricity Manipulation.
  • Limited Body Control (With Beta Blockers the player can lower their heart rate): This ability requires "beyond the biological limit". Taking pills to counter a high heart rate isn't that.
  • Fear Manipulation (With the Veteran occupation, "Brave" traits or with Beta Blockers they can limit the amount of panic they feel. The Veteran occupation describes itself as: "Veterans never panic, no matter how bad it is they can stand their ground and deal out headshots to any zombies that made the mistake of trying to scare them.". Beta Blockers can completely block stress hormones): Nothing in this game has Fear Manipulation. The Veteran is desensitized to combat, and simply doesn't suffer fear from the zombies threat: if a character possessed Fear Manipulation, they would logically still affect the Veteran. Brave is an inferior version of the Desensitized trait possessed by Veterans. Beta Blockers may be fair, although a supernatural Fear Manipulation resistance is not shown. Still, this is abject misinformation on the page and needs rectifying.
  • Speed: Varies from Average Human to Peak Human, at most Superhuman (Far faster than Zombies. With sprinting level 10 the player can upgrade their speed by 50% and with the "Athletic" trait they can further increase this by 20%), even higher with adrenaline, Subsonic travel speed in vehicles, Subsonic+ to Supersonic+ attack speed with firearms: I recalculated the feat without using theoretical upscaling and instead just recording it. They only have Average Human running speed, Athletic Human to be generous to account for slight discrepancies. Even baseline Subsonic is pretty generous for the general vehicles, that should be "Varies from Superhuman to Subsonic travel speed in vehicles"- Speed Demon helps but most vehicles aren't reaching upwards of 70 mph. This is a nitpick, mostly, since I'm already here for the outrageous concept of Superhuman speed.
  • Lifting Strength: At least Athletic Human (Can lift fridges, which can weigh up to 136 kg on average. Able to easily knock down multiple zombies at once by shoving them), likely higher (With maxed out strength the player is able to more easily lift heavy objects): The "higher" bit is objectively untrue, the game caps you at 50 encumbrance, with Strength having no bearing on that whatsoever. Strength raises the comfortable lifting load, but does not affect the maximum.
  • Durability: At least Street level (Although debilitating, players can survive attacks from weapons such as sledgehammers, axes, knives, pistols, shotguns and many other firearms. Could survive falls from the second floor nearly completely unharmed, which would yield this much energy), possibly Wall level (They can take attacks from zombies, who can tear through metal plating in armor. They can survive car crashes without taking severe damage which would fatally injure a normal person. Can survive explosions from their bombs), higher with their bullet proof vest and/or the thick skinned trait: The explosive calc was added but it really shouldn't have been, thinking on it. There are many types of explosives in Zomboid, most of which are almost guaranteed to be an instant death sentence if triggered on top of you. The calc conveniently uses the explosive that doesn't do as much damage. The thing about this is that they all have approximately the same blast radius, meaning that it is much, much more consistent and in-line with the verse for explosives to be basically insta-kills, and this one is game mechanics allowing you to survive because the explosive has a different purpose. To offer a comparable situation, 7 Days to Die is another zombie game with two broad types of explosives: those meant to destroy blocks versus those meant to damage entities. They all have roughly comparable blast radiuses, but some of them can be easily survived for the simple fact that they are meant to be non-harmful to the player.
  • Stamina: At least Athletic, possibly far higher (With decent fitness the player can battle hordes of zombies without becoming exhausted for hours or even full days on end. Can give themselves stitches without the use of pain killers, with the night owl trait the player recovers from exhaustion much faster and requires much less sleep): This is not true. You will become quickly exhausted fighting zombies even with maximum stamina- you certainly cannot achieve that effect for days on end. The stitches thing is true but immense pain still exists and debilitating, so much so that it prevents sleep without said pain killers. Night owl is a small difference. Athletic is fair for battling large groups of zombies, but this is massively overestimating the player, seemingly on purpose.
  • Intelligence: Genius, lower with specific traits: They don't start at Genius. What. Knock this to Average. The justifications for this are just reskinned arguments for Accelerated Development, which was already rejected and removed in the previous CRT. Players can only learn skills as fast as suggested if they have proper learning material to work with, are grinding that skill day and night, and have an existent background in that skill (such as having been a chef before the apocalypse lending itself to learning cooking faster). They have no notable ability to learn at the suggested "supernatural rates". They could be considered Gifted with the Fast Learner trait, which significantly increases learning speed across all venues, and Below Average with the Slow Learner trait, which does the opposite. Weapon or profession-dependent traits can't really be considered broad-spanning intelligence but rather a niche capability.
  • Standard Tactics: They don't have standard tactics, it is a video game character whose decisions are entirely up to the player. While the tactics described aren't insane, they are subjective to the person who wrote them and certainly don't reflect a universal truth of melee combat. For example, were I unarmed, I'd probably straight up flee, even if it was my intent to kill the enemy: I'd scavenge for a weapon of some kind. Sticks and sharp rocks make a spear on short notice. So this section should be entirely removed.
This may or may not result in some or all of the player's matches being made, since they are on the profile under false pretenses.
 
Last edited:
A good amount of the Project Zomboid player profile appears to have been edited without a proper CRT. Thus, we fix it.

This CRT aims to correct the many, many, many errors present in the Project Zomboid profiles on our wiki. Some time back I had fixed them up and thought the matter settled, but there are dozens upon dozens of non-allowed edits that have drip-fed in various abilities. I intend to just work down the page, removing what shouldn't be present.

Let's begin.

  • Construction (The player is able to build or secure a safe house with certain carpentry skills and tools): Quoting the page: "This power should only be listed when it is clear that the character can do it in a brief amount of time or in the middle of a battle. If the character needs considerable time to build their structures, Preparation should be listed. Construction should under no circumstances be given to a character who does not show the supernatural ability to build structures in a very brief timespan." The Project Zomboid player may be particularly adroit by some considerations, but most definitely does not possess either supernatural speed in their construction or the ability to do so mid-combat. This is covered by Preparation.
  • Electricity Manipulation (A player with a level 2 "Mechanic" skill or a player with the "Burglar" occupation could hotwire cars): This is not Electricity Manipulation.
  • Limited Body Control (With Beta Blockers the player can lower their heart rate): This ability requires "beyond the biological limit". Taking pills to counter a high heart rate isn't that.
  • Fear Manipulation (With the Veteran occupation, "Brave" traits or with Beta Blockers they can limit the amount of panic they feel. The Veteran occupation describes itself as: "Veterans never panic, no matter how bad it is they can stand their ground and deal out headshots to any zombies that made the mistake of trying to scare them.". Beta Blockers can completely block stress hormones): Nothing in this game has Fear Manipulation. The Veteran is desensitized to combat, and simply doesn't suffer fear from the zombies threat: if a character possessed Fear Manipulation, they would logically still affect the Veteran. Brave is an inferior version of the Desensitized trait possessed by Veterans. Beta Blockers may be fair, although a supernatural Fear Manipulation resistance is not shown. Still, this is abject misinformation on the page and needs rectifying.
  • Speed: Varies from Average Human to Peak Human, at most Superhuman (Far faster than Zombies. With sprinting level 10 the player can upgrade their speed by 50% and with the "Athletic" trait they can further increase this by 20%), even higher with adrenaline, Subsonic travel speed in vehicles, Subsonic+ to Supersonic+ attack speed with firearms: I recalculated the feat without using theoretical upscaling and instead just recording it. They only have Average Human running speed, Athletic Human to be generous to account for slight discrepancies. Even baseline Subsonic is pretty generous for the general vehicles, that should be "Varies from Superhuman to Subsonic travel speed in vehicles"- Speed Demon helps but most vehicles aren't reaching upwards of 70 mph. This is a nitpick, mostly, since I'm already here for the outrageous concept of Superhuman speed.
  • Lifting Strength: At least Athletic Human (Can lift fridges, which can weigh up to 136 kg on average. Able to easily knock down multiple zombies at once by shoving them), likely higher (With maxed out strength the player is able to more easily lift heavy objects): The "higher" bit is objectively untrue, the game caps you at 50 encumbrance, with Strength having no bearing on that whatsoever. Strength raises the comfortable lifting load, but does not affect the maximum.
  • Durability: At least Street level (Although debilitating, players can survive attacks from weapons such as sledgehammers, axes, knives, pistols, shotguns and many other firearms. Could survive falls from the second floor nearly completely unharmed, which would yield this much energy), possibly Wall level (They can take attacks from zombies, who can tear through metal plating in armor. They can survive car crashes without taking severe damage which would fatally injure a normal person. Can survive explosions from their bombs), higher with their bullet proof vest and/or the thick skinned trait: The explosive calc was added without a CRT (much like everything else here) as far as I can tell, and I specifically stated in my acceptance of the math that it was erroneous. There are many types of explosives in Zomboid, most of which are almost guaranteed to be an instant death sentence if triggered on top of you. The calc conveniently uses the explosive that doesn't do as much damage. The thing about this is that they all have approximately the same blast radius, meaning that it is much, much more consistent and in-line with the verse for explosives to be basically insta-kills, and this one is game mechanics allowing you to survive because the explosive has a different purpose. To offer a comparable situation, 7 Days to Die is another zombie game with two broad types of explosives: those meant to destroy blocks versus those meant to damage entities. They all have roughly comparable blast radiuses, but some of them can be easily survived for the simple fact that they are meant to be non-harmful to the player.
  • Stamina: At least Athletic, possibly far higher (With decent fitness the player can battle hordes of zombies without becoming exhausted for hours or even full days on end. Can give themselves stitches without the use of pain killers, with the night owl trait the player recovers from exhaustion much faster and requires much less sleep): This is not true. You will become quickly exhausted fighting zombies even with maximum stamina- you certainly cannot achieve that effect for days on end. The stitches thing is true but immense pain still exists and debilitating, so much so that it prevents sleep without said pain killers. Night owl is a small difference. Athletic is fair for battling large groups of zombies, but this is massively overestimating the player, seemingly on purpose.
  • Intelligence: Genius, lower with specific traits: They don't start at Genius. What. Knock this to Average. The justifications for this are just reskinned arguments for Accelerated Development, which was already rejected and removed in the previous CRT. Players can only learn skills as fast as suggested if they have proper learning material to work with, are grinding that skill day and night, and have an existent background in that skill (such as having been a chef before the apocalypse lending itself to learning cooking faster). They have no notable ability to learn at the suggested "supernatural rates". They could be considered Gifted with the Fast Learner trait, which significantly increases learning speed across all venues, and Below Average with the Slow Learner trait, which does the opposite. Weapon or profession-dependent traits can't really be considered broad-spanning intelligence but rather a niche capability.
  • Standard Tactics: They don't have standard tactics, it is a video game character whose decisions are entirely up to the player. While the tactics described aren't insane, they are subjective to the person who wrote them and certainly don't reflect a universal truth of melee combat. For example, were I unarmed, I'd probably straight up flee, even if it was my intent to kill the enemy: I'd scavenge for a weapon of some kind. Sticks and sharp rocks make a spear on short notice. So this section should be entirely removed.
This may or may not result in some or all of the player's matches being made, since they are on the profile under false pretenses.
If all of this was added without a crt, couldn't you have reverted it? Since it would be less work.

But it seems from the history that you have already reverted edits and the user continued the edits.

Shouldn't this be a case of reporting? For the user to stop doing this, stop their crts and reversals.
 
If all of this was added without a crt, couldn't you have reverted it? Since it would be less work.

But it seems from the history that you have already reverted edits and the user continued the edits.

Shouldn't this be a case of reporting? For the user to stop doing this, stop their crts and reversals.
It may be worth pursuing the bits and pieces that were added down the line for a warning, but honestly that doesn't solve the problem. The CRT goes beyond just removing them by technicality of policy, and addresses them as wrong in the first place. So I think it's more valuable to CRT it all rather than just say "you aren't allowed to do that".
 
You've got mail!

2_tubebomb_2_dark.jpg
 
Applied the changes, real quick gonna evaluate the VS threads on the page to see whether they should be removed:
  • VS The Player (Death Road to Canada): No, I don't think so. Intelligence was mentioned but the main contention is the equipment afforded to both of them.
  • VS The Employee (Lethal Company): A tenuous yes. A lot of the discussion circles things edited in the page- supposedly superhuman intelligence with weapons being a major one, which isn't on the page anymore.
  • VS The Stalker: Also yes. EliminatorVenom's post is the main arguing point for the thread, and it makes a clear point that the player's supposed skills (which were significantly overestimated then, per this thread's Intelligence downgrade) were the main thing allowing the Zomboid character to keep up in spite of the actual disadvantage otherwise. This may be considered a stomp, or simply in need of redoing- but it should be approached again.
  • VS The Figure: Objectively yes, this one is using a now removed speed advantage (amongst other points of discussion revolving around things now removed from the profile).
Going to remove those three, other staff feel free to weigh in if you want. Otherwise, I'm closing this thread and consider it finished, thanks much all.
 
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