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Don't bunch up everyone like that whenever there's only one user being rude and abrasive.
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Prime Doppo?
- Thread starter NotoriouSoda
- Start date
- Status
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Why would he need to be all knowing? The question is Yujiro's growth. He's the closest thing Yujiro seems to have to a friend other than Oliva, and is shown to spend a large amount of time at his beck and call. He even has a seen where he's specifically asking Yujiro if he can beat X animal, Y animal, Z animal. He's one of the most knowledgable if not the most knowledgable about Yujiro in the entire series. The only person I could see maybe having more concrete info on Yujiro's growth is Baki since he's survived multiple fights with him, while Strydum got completely no dif'd and literally laughed off in a fight he probably knew going in he had no chance to win.
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That's not even an argument is just me explaining what i think Itagaki beliefs, the argument is precisely what makes me believe so, anyways i really don't care enough about the retcon thing to waste more of my time with it.
Also you say that i'm using argument from disbelief fallacy when i give several more explanations of why i think what i think, you can disagree with me but just saying that my only point is that i think Itagaki was planning something shows you really didn't get the points of my comment.
Anyways I STILL thinking this is a waste of time: Prime Doppo or not, that really doesn't will make everybody 7-C since Dorian broke his fingers hitting Doppo (And he didn't damaged Doppo at all lmao), Flint and Amanai don't scale to anyone else and Ali Jr. is really not that relevant since immediately after his saga everybody increase his power a lot in Son Of Ogre, so even if we consider him as a 7-C, that will only make Jack go from "Son Of Ogre" key to "End of NGB to Son Of Ogre", Doppo being 7-C doesn't affect the scaling that much since characters who actually scale to him are not that relevant from scaling, so i think Prime Doppo is actually one of the least relevant things to debate about,i actually care more about the new scaling thing.
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Man tell me how exactly speaking facts is being rude and tell me where I insulted you, go ahead, the only one with no real argument is you tbh.
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Let's keep this on-topic and remain civil, please.
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@Dark-Carioca Yeah, sure no biggie.
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I noticed an aggravated tone in this thread, including from yourself, and wanted to try to defuse the situation.
I know that we are all under a lot of stress from real world events, but this is supposed to be a friendly and collaborative refuge, not a place to take out the stress on each other.
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Anyway, I agree with this.
Also, have you reached any conclusions here yet? And if so, please provide easy to understand explanations.
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I am steadily getting very much so tired of you trying to antagonize me in every thread like this. I've never once displayed any hostility, nor aggression. Once more the only aggression here is from Mr Italian Man with comments like.
Man tell me how exactly speaking facts is being rude and tell me where I insulted you, go ahead, the only one with no real argument is you tbh.
Why do you keep commenting on baki related threads when you have clearly no clue on what you're talking about ?
Read above, you obviously don't remember writing down a discrediting insult before this comment. Anyway's if you can go ahead and drop the smug ass attitude then I'll deal with your "arguments" in about an hour.
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you thinking i have no clue on what i'm talking about =/= an actual argument but nice bait. FYI I've been an advent fan of the manga since the anime came out, not that I need to prove myself to you, and I can comment on any thread I please. You are not a staff member, don't go around acting as if you are.
Scans for the Baki statement would be appreciated. All i see from your arguments are empty words, and once again even if Baki said it that wouldn't mean Yujiro is getting stronger by multiple tiers just by standing.
Once again, a scan would be appreciated as opposed to empty ass words. That's not how things work in the wiki, either add proper citation or don't bother making the argument.
Because Strydium unlike Baki has no form of powering level reading so he'd have no way of knowing that Yujiro is getting stronger.
Also it's not up to me to prove a negative, it's up to you to prove a positive. I don't need to prove contradiction, you need to prove consistently as the burden of proof falls onto you.
Baki not contesting it is irrelevant, Baki hasn't contented plenty of hyperbolic statements in the past. We're not even ignoring it so how's about avoiding making assumptions? This proofs to me that you saw a disagreement for something Baki related and didn't bother reading the context simply out of a disagreement.
Like the fact that you think I'm saying to ignore it is blatant evidence your using your emotions to react as opposed to using that brain of yours to react logically. I said that your riding the getting stronger statement, not that we should axe it.
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I am not trying to antagonise you or to single you out. I just noticed comments like the following, which are unnecessarily rude and abrasive.
"If we're gonna turn this into a contest of insults then I can guarantee you, that's a route you aren't gonna be winning with me.
Classic Baki fan move kek. Everyone can cleary see your ulterior motives. Needless amounts of condescension and aggression with no real argument."
"Anyway's if you can go ahead and drop the smug ass attitude then I'll deal with your "arguments" in about an hour."
It is part of my job here to tell people to calm down when arguments seem about to get out of hand.
"If we're gonna turn this into a contest of insults then I can guarantee you, that's a route you aren't gonna be winning with me.
Classic Baki fan move kek. Everyone can cleary see your ulterior motives. Needless amounts of condescension and aggression with no real argument."
"Anyway's if you can go ahead and drop the smug ass attitude then I'll deal with your "arguments" in about an hour."
It is part of my job here to tell people to calm down when arguments seem about to get out of hand.
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None of which are aggressive, those are succinct but a far cry from aggressive.
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@LordGinSama Just because you're a fan of something doesn't mean you have good knowledge about it.
1) This is the second scan that talks about Yujiro's improvements rate https://discord.com/channels/827362211319906354/828123542737387530/958660747716612127
2) Prove Strydium's statement is not true, if he is making such a claim then he clearly has the knowledge of Yujiro getting stronger in the first place. You are just being skeptical for now reason, kek.
3) Examples of Baki not contesting hyperbolic statements ? I can just steelman this argument and say in this context there was no hyperbole and he and strydium were having a serious conversation and then Baki's reaction after Strydium makes that comment about Yujiro's growth he very clealry agrees with it judging from his reaction lmao.
Look, do you have any scan or proof of these two statements being contradicted or unreliable ? Becuase so far you only have skepticism and 0 argumentation whatsoever.
1) This is the second scan that talks about Yujiro's improvements rate https://discord.com/channels/827362211319906354/828123542737387530/958660747716612127
2) Prove Strydium's statement is not true, if he is making such a claim then he clearly has the knowledge of Yujiro getting stronger in the first place. You are just being skeptical for now reason, kek.
3) Examples of Baki not contesting hyperbolic statements ? I can just steelman this argument and say in this context there was no hyperbole and he and strydium were having a serious conversation and then Baki's reaction after Strydium makes that comment about Yujiro's growth he very clealry agrees with it judging from his reaction lmao.
Look, do you have any scan or proof of these two statements being contradicted or unreliable ? Becuase so far you only have skepticism and 0 argumentation whatsoever.
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Could say the same for yourself.
Nice dead link.
Once again, not how this works at all. You need to prove that the statement is true, I ain't gotta prove Jack whenever the burden of proof falls on you to prove.
I can provide links for them in about an hour give or take, they do exist but if you'd like to be ignorant about them then go right ahead.
Look, do you have any scans or proof that these two statements are legitimate?
I still find it funny how much you've managed to derail this argument considering the argument is that you were extrapolating the statements, not that they were false. Furthermore proving my point that you didn't even bother reading anything here otherwise we wouldn't even be arguing on this statement.
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Doppo being 7-C in the MT would absolutely **** the scaling like crazy. Nearly the entire roster would scale. Aside from Filth and Amanai, Katsumi and Shibukawa are obvious ones which then opens up the door to people like Hanayama and Shinogi which opens the door to even more people from there. More problems are created than solved, not that there should even be a problem in the first place.
And I agree with the idea that everyone needs to chill. Not calling out anyone specifically but these threads can get quite heated so let’s try to keep it controlled.
And I agree with the idea that everyone needs to chill. Not calling out anyone specifically but these threads can get quite heated so let’s try to keep it controlled.
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Doppo (mid-tier Baki character) once fought Yujiro (god tier character) and forced him to use his demonback (massive buff). Despite this, later, Doppo loses to people Yujiro casually 1 shots.
The yujiro he fought punched the earth and this somehow stopped an earthquake, which is for some reason considered to be = to the earthquake in power. The earthquake's strength was fairly arbitarily dictated, as was saying him stopping it is = to it, but apparently this calc makes yujiro at that point without using demon back 7-C. Therefore, so long as this calc remains accepted, Doppo scales to 7-C. Doppo was stated by the narrator one time in the series to be 'maybe (maybe) at the last year of his peak'. The topic is saying that Doppo was not at his peak, but continued to get stronger, and wants to remove his 'prime' key from his profile.
Everything else in the topic is general powerscaling that should be in another topic, far as I can see.
The issue being that this would put everyone who ever fought doppo and didn't instantly lose at 7-C, which seems too high for the strength shown.
Imo the issue here is the calc. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CloverDragon03/Grappler_Baki:_Earthquake_Feat. This one. Everything about this calc is based on either assumptions (the strength of the earthquake) and seemingly absolutely nothing (scaling him to be exactly as strong as an earthquake). Its the source of the for the verse in general overly high scaling.
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Okay. I think that your reasoning seems to make sense.
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- Thread starter
- #180
Ok so I was busy studying and doing my business to not participate in this thread much. But there is some stuff I want to talk.
At this time Doppo and Yujiro are close to each other in power during the fight. And Yujiro one shots these people because of his constant training that puts him above the rest of the cast. Hell I don’t know why we even question this. Like we can literally look at other characters in the verse and show proof these characters grow. The most blatant example being Katsumi growing in power after 24 of training. Like this shit just happens in the bakiverse. And again to point this out, it literally doesn’t matter about the earthquake calc. It doesn’t matter where you put it or call it an outlier because there’s are higher feats and scaling that can be done for these characters. Also there’s nothing wrong with the calc there’s been threads talking about it and all the points against it have be shot down.
Y’all are missing the point of the thread about the 7-C when it’s literally about Doppo. Stop talking about it like it matters right now when I plan to talk about it in the next crt
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- Thread starter
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None of my points I’ve made in the beginning got debunked. Most of the replies for the points against it got answered and the main problem im seeing is the scaling issue which I will address in the next crt.
Like all there is to do here is to change Prime Doppo to Maximum Tournament Doppo. It’s that’s simple lol
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With all due respect Soda your points about MT Doppo being the same power are entirely based on one statement about Yujiro’s growth that isn’t even 100% clear. For all we know Strydum could have just been talking about Yujiro’s skill and techniques growing with each day which is actually consistent with future showings. My points about Doppo struggling with characters like Filth and Amanai, plus the statement about Doppo being at the end of his peak are as clear as they come and haven’t been debunked either. Doppo more than anyone should be able to accurately know his own power.
Your extra statements about Doppo “growing stronger” and “training his mind and body” are for NGB Doppo and could easily be saying that he’s above his MT self rather than his younger self that went toe to toe with Yujiro.
I understand as well as you do that Baki is full of inconsistencies. It’s impossible to have a perfect scaling system with zero issues but I think it’s clear that having MT Doppo on the same level as Prime Doppo opens the door for way too many inconsistencies.
And to anyone like Ant who needs a refresher on my points. I believe that Prime Doppo exists due to multiple statements from the narrator and Doppo himself, along with his drop in performance immediately after his death at the hands of Yujiro. Characters who shatter their hands punching Yujiro are able to floor MT Doppo who was comparable to Yujiro before his death.
Your extra statements about Doppo “growing stronger” and “training his mind and body” are for NGB Doppo and could easily be saying that he’s above his MT self rather than his younger self that went toe to toe with Yujiro.
I understand as well as you do that Baki is full of inconsistencies. It’s impossible to have a perfect scaling system with zero issues but I think it’s clear that having MT Doppo on the same level as Prime Doppo opens the door for way too many inconsistencies.
And to anyone like Ant who needs a refresher on my points. I believe that Prime Doppo exists due to multiple statements from the narrator and Doppo himself, along with his drop in performance immediately after his death at the hands of Yujiro. Characters who shatter their hands punching Yujiro are able to floor MT Doppo who was comparable to Yujiro before his death.
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Would also be consistent considering Yuji was officially overpowered by Pickle in official English translations despite his "training." amongst having to use Aiki against him.
And we all know how inconsistent Pickle's scaling is so there'll definitely be some serious outliers ahead. Such as Yujiro being scared of a 9-A hole done by Kaku, being overpowered by Pickle who's feats are objectively tier 8 and being overpowered by Kurhera in the Maximum Tournament.
Baki has a ton of outliers tbh, and the only way to get rid of these and implement proper scaling would be to use the anime imo.
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So can each side properly explain what they think should be done here and why in an easy to understand manner, please?
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The problem with Prime Doppo is that the manga clearly states that he became stronger than before but he never fights characters of that level or show any other relevant feat until far later, actually, he gets damaged, outmatched by and compared to, characters that are supossed to be far below 7-C.
For that i said what i said about the retcon, Doppo breaking Yuichiro's jaw actually is not a problem thanks to things such as Emmie making Yujiro bleed with her bite (And the difference between her and Yujiro is even higher than the one between Yuichiro and Doppo) or Mouth making Guevara bleed so we can say that a character far weaker can hurt a far stronger one if the strongest is pretty supressed (Something that the Shobun Rom vs Oliva fight also proves)
The only problem here is the fight between Doppo and Yujiro, that happens in a moment of Baki timeline that is even more inconsistent that the rest of the manga and seems to be kinda disconnected from the rest of the story, and since Prime Doppo is just a headcannon, i think that the Retcon thing is likely the best solution.
But do anything you want, as i said, i really don't care about it.
For that i said what i said about the retcon, Doppo breaking Yuichiro's jaw actually is not a problem thanks to things such as Emmie making Yujiro bleed with her bite (And the difference between her and Yujiro is even higher than the one between Yuichiro and Doppo) or Mouth making Guevara bleed so we can say that a character far weaker can hurt a far stronger one if the strongest is pretty supressed (Something that the Shobun Rom vs Oliva fight also proves)
The only problem here is the fight between Doppo and Yujiro, that happens in a moment of Baki timeline that is even more inconsistent that the rest of the manga and seems to be kinda disconnected from the rest of the story, and since Prime Doppo is just a headcannon, i think that the Retcon thing is likely the best solution.
But do anything you want, as i said, i really don't care about it.
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This is very important if you want me or other staff members to help you out here.
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@Antvasima
I already gave my side but here it is again.
Prime Doppo exists due to multiple statements from the narrator and Doppo himself explaining that his fight with Yujiro would be the last time he could fight at his peak. Along with this, Doppo shows a massive drop in performance immediately after his death at the hands of Yujiro. Characters who shatter their hands punching Yujiro are able to floor MT Doppo who was comparable to Yujiro before his death. It’s that simple.
Also just a quick response to what Kerr said. The statements about Doppo growing stronger are for NGB Doppo being stronger than MT Doppo. They have nothing to do with the Doppo that faced Yujiro.
I already gave my side but here it is again.
Prime Doppo exists due to multiple statements from the narrator and Doppo himself explaining that his fight with Yujiro would be the last time he could fight at his peak. Along with this, Doppo shows a massive drop in performance immediately after his death at the hands of Yujiro. Characters who shatter their hands punching Yujiro are able to floor MT Doppo who was comparable to Yujiro before his death. It’s that simple.
Also just a quick response to what Kerr said. The statements about Doppo growing stronger are for NGB Doppo being stronger than MT Doppo. They have nothing to do with the Doppo that faced Yujiro.
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Honestly i mostly agree with Amlad, we can't just upgrade Doppo, and, by extension, several characters that way via 2 random statements, and quitting Prime Doppo would just add more problems to the already problematic Baki Scaling, i STILL prefering the retcon option but if i'm the only one who thinks like that, then let's go with Prime Doppo.
Also another point:
We know that Ali Jr. is Superior to Doppo, if Doppo is stronger than when he faced Yujiro, then that means that Prime Ali would be also superior to Prime Doppo due to being superior to Ali Jr. in his prime, this doesn't make sense since he wasn't at the same level as Yujiro at all, and since Yujiro power grows everyday and he faced a Teenager Yujiro, that will make even less sense.
So thinking it deeply, even the scaling of the series tells you that NGB Doppo shouldn't be 7-C
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I say we close this thread for now, and before we get into the next AP thread I'd say we should create one for Baki's outliers and inconsistent scaling. This problem will continue to persist if we don't do anything about it.
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- Thread starter
- #194
Eh sure I relent. But there’s still a few things I’m not backing down from
Doppo in his first key should just fully scale to 7-C
Yujiro obviously grows in power throughout the series. I don’t know how you can interrupt that as only his MA skill when he’s still physically training lol.(and it was also already accepted so I don’t see why y’all complaining about it)
And that’s pretty much it. I’m to busy rn but once I apply the change Ant can close the thread
Doppo in his first key should just fully scale to 7-C
Yujiro obviously grows in power throughout the series. I don’t know how you can interrupt that as only his MA skill when he’s still physically training lol.(
And that’s pretty much it. I’m to busy rn but once I apply the change Ant can close the thread
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Agreed. Doppo should fully scale. Especially going off of the manga where he makes Yujiro bleed. Yujiro was stronger than him but the gap was actually not that big.
Also I think we all can agree Yujiro grows in power over time (in both strength and skill), but just not to the degree that would make MT characters all scale to 7-C as well.
Also I think we all can agree Yujiro grows in power over time (in both strength and skill), but just not to the degree that would make MT characters all scale to 7-C as well.
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- Thread starter
- #196
You don’t mind if I make the changes then?
I got more crt for Baki anyway. Like upgrading the cast AP early on with multipliers and feats
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Thank you for making an effort to reach an agreement here.
Anyway, do you know exactly how powerful the current powered-up Yujiro is, or does he not have any modern feats that are more impressive than stopping a small earthquake?
Anyway, do you know exactly how powerful the current powered-up Yujiro is, or does he not have any modern feats that are more impressive than stopping a small earthquake?
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I don't think he has anything at or above that level beyond that point. Like he shakes a scyscaper by being mad once, and its japan so its probably earthquake proof, so maybe that could be somewhat comparable? I dunno.
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I agree with the 'close topic, make a new one to sort out outliers, then come back to this' idea someone had earlier.
These arguments are circular and going nowhere and quite a lot of the posts were getting needlessly rude as a result.
These arguments are circular and going nowhere and quite a lot of the posts were getting needlessly rude as a result.
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