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As I try to fix the Baki profiles I've realized something that I should have done earlier on when rereading the begging of Grappler Baki. Prime Doppo isn't a thing.

And I believe this issue stems from one main problem. We need to stop using the anime over the manga in terms of canon and I'll give my reasons.

First off there are a lot of misconceptions about this fight and to get the point across I want to explain what happens in the fight. (In the manga)

MT Doppo vs Yujiro explained

Chapter 55 is when the fight begins, Doppo puts Yujiro in a chokehold that he struggles to break. Yujiro then jumps into the stands to make him jump into the air to slam Doppo into the ground, but as soon as they reach the ground Yujiro tries to hit him with his elbow. Doppo then proceeds to dodge the blow and an exchange of blows occurs, Yujiro then approaches Doppo walking towards him. Yujiro then uses udonde on Doppo, with him standing back up afterward. Once both fighters enter their "Dominance Zone" Doppo lands the hit first. His next few attacks cause Yujiro to recoil in pain. Motobe then proceeds to explain how his ribs were destroyed, however as stated many times before this isn't the case, he damages Yujiro but not in destroying his ribs. Yujiro then launches multiple attacks on Doppo with him on the defensive. Doppo only suffers minor bruises. Doppo then proceeds to use Sangan which blocks all of Yujiro attacks. And while Sangan does help with him blocking the attacks it never stated to increase Doppo AP. Because afterward Doppo cuts Yujiro wrists and begins to mock him with Yujiro sweating due to this. And once Baki arrives Doppo slammed Yujiro against the wall. Yujiro is doubting himself on why he can't even dodge Doppos attacks. And after Yujiro sees Baki he activates his Demon Back which then he processed to destroy Doppo. The fight basically ends in chapter 62.

While Yujiro does win in the end, its pretty obvious its because of the Demon Back. Yujiro in his base was put on the defensive the entire time with Doppo clearly causing damage against him, hell one of his moves could have killed DB Yujiro. If you believe that I've cherry-picked the fight to make Doppo seem stronger please read it yourself. Chapters are right there.

So if this is the case why even have this conversation? Well, it's because of the anime.

Stop using the Anime over the manga

I don't really think I need to explain, this is never allowed with other anime verses, but why is Grappler Baki the exception to this? Because Itagaki worked on the anime? Yeah, Itagaki was involved in the anime just like any author of a manga that is getting an anime would be involved in its making. That doesn't mean we should use it over the manga.

He's never gotten weaker it’s just head canon

So there is a point people would point to in order to claim Doppo has gotten "weaker". Before his fight with Yujiro there's a line that goes "This may be the last year he can stay at his peak". However, this line doesn't even hold any water. Because there are multiple statements by the character, Itagaki, and events in the story that just doesn't make this true. First here's a scan of Doppo "embarked on a journey to seek even greater strength for himself". He's a man that obsessed with the idea of getting stronger, to the point that he hadn't even perfected his technique during the Yujiro fight. He's stated to have never gotten weaker and after the MT he went to train both his body and mind. And if you want to use he got older argument so he got weaker that's not how that works. Here he is casually tanking an attack from Baki and sending him back with a palm strike. How old is he here? In his late 60s yet lol still knocking Baki on his ass, Dou ll Baki might I add. How do you go from being in your prime to being weaker then being stronger than your prime?

So what

So what do you do? Just change Prime Doppo into "Maximum Tournament Doppo".

Wont this make others 7-C?

For another thread. This is just to get rid of “Prime Doppo”
 
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If I remember right the concept of prime doppo was from literally one page where the narrator says he ''MAY'' be on the last year of his prime to begin with. Not that he's at his prime. Seems fine.
Doppo's weaker than random old man with a gun who shot yujiro one time regardless
 
If I remember right the concept of prime doppo was from literally one page where the narrator says he ''MAY'' be on the last year of his prime to begin with. Not that he's at his prime. Seems fine.
Doppo's weaker than random old man with a gun who shot yujiro one time regardless
Yeah I address that. It doesn’t make any sense since he becomes stronger throughout the series
 
And if you want to use he got older argument so he got weaker that's not how that works. Here he is casually tanking an attack from Baki and sending him back with a palm strike. How old is he here? In his late 60s yet lol still knocking Baki on his ass, Dou ll Baki might I add. How do you go from being in your prime to being weaker then being stronger than your prime?
You don't even need to go that far to see proof of Doppo getting stronger, as soon as the very first chapters of NGB you can see him being blatantly stronger than Katsumi (he beats the shit out of Dorian who manhandles Katsumi while being suppressed) who is stated and shown something like 10 times to be superior to him in every stat during the MT. Katsumi is also shocked by how good Doppo's physique is, and Katumi knew Doppo since before the fight with Yujiro.
I don't even think the age argument is gonna be a thing when this mf exists, also age is expressly stated to just make you a better fighter overall.
 
You don't even need to go that far to see proof of Doppo getting stronger, as soon as the very first chapters of NGB you can see him being blatantly stronger than Katsumi (he beats the shit out of Dorian who manhandles Katsumi while being suppressed) who is stated and shown something like 10 times to be superior to him in every stat during the MT. Katsumi is also shocked by how good Doppo's physique is, and Katumi knew Doppo since before the fight with Yujiro.
I don't even think the age argument is gonna be a thing when this mf exists, also age is expressly stated to just make you a better fighter overall.
Thxs for more scan Twellas. Also is it specifically stated to be ten times?
 
So do you just have to bump this eternally until enough people/maybe staff agree, even if there aren't many people who even know baki and would just be saying 'seems fine agree'?
Is that how it works?
 
So do you just have to bump this eternally until enough people/maybe staff agree, even if there aren't many people who even know baki and would just be saying 'seems fine agree'?
Is that how it works?
Yeah pretty much. Tho to be fair this one is super simple. I just need a staff agreement since this a just changing a character key
 
Only really true convict arc and on. Early story was about a boy trying to beat his dad while his dad beat boxers up with flicks then lost to a doorknob and an old man with a tranq gun.
Early baki is also >>>> "group of 5 people and or dinosaur of the day" being beaten up
 
Idk how this affects scaling and generally not too knowledgeable on the series, but the arguments are reasonable
 
I have to disagree immensely with this. The reason the Baki anime is currently used is not simply because Itagaki worked on it. It’s because it retconned a massive amount of feats even outside of Yujiro vs Doppo to better fit Itagaki’s later depiction of Yujiro and fixed many scaling issues that would have occurred.

That part aside, anyone can look at Doppo’s feats post Yujiro fight (manga or anime) and see he’s gotten absurdly weaker. If Doppo was still 7-C he would have one shot Filth, one shot Amanai and one shot Shibukawa in the maximum tournament. Not to mention his durability has decreased allowing him to be knocked out cold from Ali Jr’s strikes and take severe damage from someone like Filth. The only solution at that point would be to make everyone in the verse 7-C which is just nonsense and can be easily debunked.

If we want to use the manga that’s fine. We’ll have to address certain showings as outliers or POS but it’s fine. Consistency between verses is good and all that. It just makes Prime Doppo even stronger but it doesn’t change the fact that he got weaker afterwards. The inconsistencies with removing Prime Doppo are just too blatant to ignore.
 
I have to disagree immensely with this. The reason the Baki anime is currently used is not simply because Itagaki worked on it. It’s because it retconned a massive amount of feats even outside of Yujiro vs Doppo to better fit Itagaki’s later depiction of Yujiro and fixed many scaling issues that would have occurred.
"Itagaki's later depiction" is a completely arbitrary thing, you got a statement from Itagaki supporting this? Otherwise it's a non argument, using the anime over the manga literally breaks the rules of the wiki. Also, there are scenes from the manga, FROM THAT VERY CHAPTER that are currently used in the profiles, such as the "he mastered every martial art" statement from Motobe, you can't pick and choose what gets to be valid. "fixing scaling issues" is also, again, completely irrelevant to the canonicity of the material.
That part aside, anyone can look at Doppo’s feats post Yujiro fight (manga or anime) and see he’s gotten absurdly weaker. If Doppo was still 7-C he would have one shot Filth, one shot Amanai and one shot Shibukawa in the maximum tournament. Not to mention his durability has decreased allowing him to be knocked out cold from Ali Jr’s strikes and take severe damage from someone like Filth.
Why? Why can't they just be that strong? Because they are weaker than a Yujiro who is unquantifiably stronger than the one Doppo fought? You do know the ******* YASHA APE scaled to Yujiro at one point, right? It's quite clear that being comparable to Yujiro at one point in time has no bearing on whether or not you are comparable to him 2 months after or any other amount of time, because Yujiro's progress simply outpaces everyone
It just makes Prime Doppo even stronger but it doesn’t change the fact that he got weaker afterwards.
your whole argument for why he "got weaker" is that he lost/got tagged by people who were less hyped than Yujiro, and that's literally it, because there is no reason why someone like Ali Jr couldn't simply scale above pre-MT Yujiro other than "but he's Ali Jr, no way he's stronger than Yujiro!".
 
I have to disagree immensely with this. The reason the Baki anime is currently used is not simply because Itagaki worked on it. It’s because it retconned a massive amount of feats even outside of Yujiro vs Doppo to better fit Itagaki’s later depiction of Yujiro and fixed many scaling issues that would have occurred.

That part aside, anyone can look at Doppo’s feats post Yujiro fight (manga or anime) and see he’s gotten absurdly weaker. If Doppo was still 7-C he would have one shot Filth, one shot Amanai and one shot Shibukawa in the maximum tournament. Not to mention his durability has decreased allowing him to be knocked out cold from Ali Jr’s strikes and take severe damage from someone like Filth. The only solution at that point would be to make everyone in the verse 7-C which is just nonsense and can be easily debunked.

If we want to use the manga that’s fine. We’ll have to address certain showings as outliers or POS but it’s fine. Consistency between verses is good and all that. It just makes Prime Doppo even stronger but it doesn’t change the fact that he got weaker afterwards. The inconsistencies with removing Prime Doppo are just too blatant to ignore.
The Baki anime also gives us a multiplier for the DB that we don’t use as well. We just pick and Choose thinks to use from the anime the we should our right now use it. If we gonna use one thing from the anime why not use everything. But Vswiki literally doesn’t allow that so I don’t know why this is an argument.

Why? There is amount of scans and evidence supporting this is close to none. Yujiro grows stronger throughout the so that’s doesn’t mean anything. Like he literally stated to grow stronger by the second and constant trains. Everyone is just trying to catch up with him.

Im fine with doing that but your argument is that he lost to people who were not Yujiro. Despite the fact that was an early Yujiro. A lot of characters are surprisingly a lot stronger than pre MT Yujiro. Like I stated above there no strong enough evidence to prove that this was his prime, he literally just lost the ability to do Sangan.
 
They can’t be that strong because they have feats that put them far lower. Simple as that. It’s not hype, it’s feats. Pre MT Yujiro stopped an earthquake and is firmly in 7-C. Nobody in the MT showed anything close to that.

I don’t even have to look further than one MT fight to see that Doppo got weaker. He was clearly shown to be physically weaker than Filth despite the fact that Filth shattered his hand punching Yujiro. This is just nonsense to say Doppo hasn’t gotten weaker. At best you’d have an argument for Dou Doppo being comparable to his old self and that’s really it.
 
@NotoriouSoda

Like I said pre MT Yujiro still has 7-C feats. The best MT feats are 9-A and they are done by characters when they’re serious. It’s not just that Doppo lost to people who aren’t Yujiro, it’s that he struggles and even losses to people who have feats far, far, far below what Yujiro was showing.
 
They can’t be that strong because they have feats that put them far lower. Simple as that. It’s not hype, it’s feats. Pre MT Yujiro stopped an earthquake and is firmly in 7-C. Nobody in the MT showed anything close to that.
Neither do Baki or """prime""" doppo himself lmao, that's what scaling is for by definition. Pickle doesn't have a single accepted feat above Wall lvl, are you gonna tell me he's weaker than pre MT Yujiro? Oliva doesn't have a single accepted feat above Wall lvl, are you gonna tell me he's weaker than pre MT Yujiro? That's total nonsense.
Filth shattered his hand punching Yujiro
Pretty sure it's anime only, never remember this being stated, shown or even implied in the manga
He was clearly shown to be physically weaker than Filth
Blatantly false, it's made excessively clear that Doppo is sandbagging him; literally the second he gets serious he no sells his punch and one shots him. And while he does state that "that took its toll", it's pretty clear he's just talkinga bout the fact that he suppressed himself to act cool.
 
@NotoriouSoda

Like I said pre MT Yujiro still has 7-C feats. The best MT feats are 9-A and they are done by characters when they’re serious. It’s not just that Doppo lost to people who aren’t Yujiro, it’s that he struggles and even losses to people who have feats far, far, far below what Yujiro was showing.
Literally majority of the characters don’t have feats above wall level. Stop using this other wise Pickle and Musashi don’t scale for this reason
 
Pickle, Baki and Prime Doppo have the feats of going toe to toe with Yujiro in some way. The others don’t. This is really basic stuff.

As far as I remember it’s in both. At best Filth does zero damage with a direct punch and then gets one shot.

You’re completely taking everything that happened in that fight out of context for your own purposes. Filth was stronger. That’s why Doppo’s attacks did less damage. Doppo was “holding back” in the sense that he wasn’t using his massive speed advantage over Filth and also wasn’t using any techniques. He won because he started using both of those, not because he magically became stronger than Filth.
 
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