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Obviously you need powerscaling, but fot powerscaling to ne effective you need feats to support it...
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PreTimeskip Bleach Speed
- Thread starter LordAizenSama
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And we do have feats. But unfortunately, they can't be put into numbers. There's a lot of blitzing in preskip Bleach (As far as I remember anyway.), I think we could work off of that, but we mustn't overestimate their speeds. There isn't much room for pinpoint accuracy here, there are no numbers to work with. (For now. None of us, I believe, remembers the series preskip so well they remember everything. There has to be a quantifiable speed feat somewhere, I'm more than sure of it.)
So instead, we'll have to do what feels right, unfortuantely.
I know your concerns. You know they're faster than Mach 29, but you don't want to work with vague powerscaling and arbitrary ranking without calcs and clear cut feats, which is understandable and quite fair, and considering who you are, it's only natural of you, but you have to be lenient here a bit. 'cause what else are we gonna do? :/
So instead, we'll have to do what feels right, unfortuantely.
I know your concerns. You know they're faster than Mach 29, but you don't want to work with vague powerscaling and arbitrary ranking without calcs and clear cut feats, which is understandable and quite fair, and considering who you are, it's only natural of you, but you have to be lenient here a bit. 'cause what else are we gonna do? :/
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Shunsui's pre timeskip isn't much slower than post timeskip. He didn't train nor he had any reason to. That's manga fact, to think otherwise would be contradictoryIlluminati478 said:
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@ SpecN you know what you can do? you can go deep into pre-timeskip bleach (which you can find on verious websites) and find me a feat where i can meassure distance and at least get across reasonable hypothesis for a timeframe. its only the very few fight scenes which you remember characters moving fast, find me one of those that you think is even remotely calculatable, and then we can talk, right? when i did that i found a feat from uryu (of which the calc i did for got rejected , and i was told not to bother others about it anymore, but thats irrelevant) and i am sure there are others that i missed, find them and post them on my wall and i will see what i can do.
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First, it was rscaled in the comments, so with the same timeframe it would be mach 170- ish. And second, we don't acceptm cinematic timeframes for movie's, do you think we are going to accept assumed cinematic time frame for manga? Again find me more scans of the feat and i'll see what i can do, but as it is, its not a go...
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Well that's just great right there.
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but they do have a known minimum speed, which is mach 29, i have nothing against people presenting feats for me to calculate, but it is just wong to upgrade characters with no feats what so ever...
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I know that and i have no problems with how they rated, it just seems dumb to me that they would still be this SLOW even now.Illuminati478 said:
Hopefully there are feats that could put them above Mach 29 though.....
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Now tjey are faster, with feats to boot, but those feats came after skip, so they do not apply to preskip....
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Doesn;t seem like it from the looks of it, no...
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^mmmhmm no. and if I can't get Illuminati to agree to it I don't wanna force it through anyway. Somebody finding a feat in Pretimeskip would be handy tho, whoever finds it gets a hug.
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mmmmm if it was there it probably woulda been found by now, the best thing I can think of is starrk kidnapping Orihime But that has already been knocked back
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Let me give you a hint.... IIRC there should be something calcable in FKT arc....
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It has always seemed as though Bleach characters were High Hypersonic with their combat speed, but significantly faster with traveling speed via Sonido/Shunpo and potentionally being somewhere in the middle of MHS (at least for Shunsui, Byakuya, Stark, and Ichigo). The point is that the difference between their combat and travel speed is shown visually in both manga and anime. I believe that the characters should have an update on their travel speed while their combat and reaction speed remain High Hypersonic (an example would be when Shunsui fought Stark in his resurrection. He was able to casually move at high speeds, but as soon as he exited his shunpo and was moving in to strike, his movements slowed down and he seemed somewhat "behind").
Everyone acts like Renji, when he fought mask de masculine, was significantly faster than Byakuya before he went to the palace to train. Renji's speed isn't much higher than that Byakuya's at all.
Everyone acts like Renji, when he fought mask de masculine, was significantly faster than Byakuya before he went to the palace to train. Renji's speed isn't much higher than that Byakuya's at all.
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Yea, the Bankai that he lied about having a Mach 500 speed.KamiYasha said:
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Gin vs Aizen Kill, Kamishini no Yari True bankai HQ-0
Gin wasn't lying about it's speed or the length of it's extension when he said he lied to Aizen about what he told him of his Bankai, that should be clear to anyone reading between the line and staying aware of the details. What he lied, or to be more precise omitted was anything else his Bankai is capable of, as in it's true ability,
"Korose, Kamishini no Yari (µ«║Òüø, þÑ×µ«║ÚÄù, Kill, God-Killing Spear): Kamishini no Yari's true ability, as well as its deadliest aspect, is not based on its length or speed, but rather its ability to turn into dust for just a second when it expands and contracts. There is a deadly poison inside the blade that dissolves and breaks down cells. He can leave a sliver of his Zanpakutō in an opponent when he retracts Kamishini no Yari, allowing him to kill an opponent at any time he chooses to. He does so by uttering the technique name while placing his hand up to the target, which causes the target to completely break down and dissolve at the cellular level from the inside out.[109]"
This ability isn't dependent on the blades speed or length, things someone like Gin would use to cover up and divert attention away from the mostly deadly thing about his Bankai, it's blade. If he has an enemy focusing on the speed of the blade and with them primarily focussed on not getting overwhelmed by the blades speed which from their perspective is the Bankai's greatest strength, they remain unaware of the fact than any cut or stab wound they do get against a Bankai wielding Gin while possibly lethal on it's own carries a death sentence in the form of a corrosive poison.
That is what Gin lied to Aizen about, not it's speed or it's length, he is the kind of guy who is trying to outsmart and decieve Aizen of all people and he consistently tries to use aspects of his Zanpakuto's abilities to distract his opponents from a more deadly aspect of his Bankai, like against Ichigo he tried to intimidate him with the scope of Kamishini's reach to distract him from it's speed but Ichigo got smart to that so Gin admitted it's primary strength is it's speed which I see as being more or less as great as he stated it was, but Gin still left out the fact that his Bankai can leave a time bomb in his opponents body.
Aizen should be more or less aware of all this already, except for the time bomb bit, as Gin was waiting for the perfect opportunity to bring to use on Aizen. After all just the speed and length of the blade wouldn't pose a threat to Aizen on their own and Bleach people, particularly the strong ones can deal with stab wounds, getting one wouldn't be a problem in of itself if that is all that you think it is.
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He stated that he lied about its speed and length in both manga and anime. That is all I am talking about. I know about its ability to turn into dust and break down molecules instantly.
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He didn't say he lied about it's speed or length just that Kamishini no Yari's true ability, as well as its deadliest aspect, is not based on its length or speed, but rather its ability to turn into dust for just a second when it expands and contracts.
There was nothing about it being slower or being shorter in it's expansion, Ichigo may not be so extraordinarly smart to know whether Gin was lying about it's speed and length of expansion and contraction, but Aizen is and he has known Gin and awaited his attempt on life for over a 110 years, wanting to see how he would do it.
Gin kept his Bankai's most deadly ability a secret, to lull Aizen into a sense of security by making him believe he already knew the Bankai's capabilities in terms of Speed and Length, as this ability is inherent to the blade itself and is independant of the speed of the blades expansion and contraction, and since it only works when Gin activates it Aizen would have no chance to know this function of Gin's Bankai.
So lying about such functions as speed and length to someone as intelligent as Aizen serves no purpose as Aizen would figure this out to not be the case and wonder what Gin is specifically trying to hide about the Bankai. If the blade consistently functions as it is stated to function, then Aizen would have no reason to suspect anymore of Kamishini's capabilities.
Which serves Gin's purposes.
There was nothing about it being slower or being shorter in it's expansion, Ichigo may not be so extraordinarly smart to know whether Gin was lying about it's speed and length of expansion and contraction, but Aizen is and he has known Gin and awaited his attempt on life for over a 110 years, wanting to see how he would do it.
Gin kept his Bankai's most deadly ability a secret, to lull Aizen into a sense of security by making him believe he already knew the Bankai's capabilities in terms of Speed and Length, as this ability is inherent to the blade itself and is independant of the speed of the blades expansion and contraction, and since it only works when Gin activates it Aizen would have no chance to know this function of Gin's Bankai.
So lying about such functions as speed and length to someone as intelligent as Aizen serves no purpose as Aizen would figure this out to not be the case and wonder what Gin is specifically trying to hide about the Bankai. If the blade consistently functions as it is stated to function, then Aizen would have no reason to suspect anymore of Kamishini's capabilities.
Which serves Gin's purposes.
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So lying about such functions as speed and length to someone as intelligent as Aizen serves no purpose as Aizen would figure this out to not be the case and wonder what Gin is specifically trying to hide about the Bankai.
^ One thing.
1. Aizen is a smart man and he has notable intelligence feats but there's something you're not considering. Aizen would only be able to tell that it's mach 500 if he could perceive such speeds in the first place. That has to count for something.
^ One thing.
1. Aizen is a smart man and he has notable intelligence feats but there's something you're not considering. Aizen would only be able to tell that it's mach 500 if he could perceive such speeds in the first place. That has to count for something.
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Wrong he lied about both its length and extension as he said "it doesn't extend as long as I said nor does it extend as fast as I said".He definitely lied about its ability to begin with since he later explained it and it had nothing to do with it's length or extension speed.He lied to both Aizen and Ichigo as he mentioned turning to dust or so once it contracts which is its real ability
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Aizen's Zanpakuto manipulates the senses, supposedly absolutely, am I the only one who thinks it is reasonable he that could use it to enhance his own? He is plenty strong but much of his trashing his former fellows comes from the fact that he can choose what they see, hear, feel and etcetera.
He ca move fast enough that Ichigo who was later seen being able to dodge Gin's Bankai, didn't even see him move to stand directly in front of him, and that is without having any control over Ichigo's senses, and if Ichigo can dodge Gin's Bankai then Aizen definitely should be able to, what with him having been superior in almost every facet of capability when compared to Ichigo at that point in regards to skill, strength, speed, control, his perceptions should match that trend I think and when coupled with his Zanpakuto's ability perhaps even more so.
Aizen is much faster and much smarter than Ichigo had been, and he had known Gin since since Gin was just a tiny sociopath in the Academy, he was told specific functions of Gin's Bankai, does no one think that Aizen as powerful, deceptive and in possession of one of the most brilliant strategic an scientific minds in Bleach would be unable to confirm for himself over the course of 110 years whether or not Gin's Bankai does what he says it does? If no one does, then I guess I am overestimating Aizen's intelligence and competence.
When Gin used his Bankai's ability on Aizen, he was standing at a swords length to Aizen, holding onto the very sword welded to Aizen's hand that paired with it's speed of expansion and contraction Gin was able to peirce from almost directly in front of him and leave the poison in place, which then activated without having to move so much closer then he already had been.
He ca move fast enough that Ichigo who was later seen being able to dodge Gin's Bankai, didn't even see him move to stand directly in front of him, and that is without having any control over Ichigo's senses, and if Ichigo can dodge Gin's Bankai then Aizen definitely should be able to, what with him having been superior in almost every facet of capability when compared to Ichigo at that point in regards to skill, strength, speed, control, his perceptions should match that trend I think and when coupled with his Zanpakuto's ability perhaps even more so.
Aizen is much faster and much smarter than Ichigo had been, and he had known Gin since since Gin was just a tiny sociopath in the Academy, he was told specific functions of Gin's Bankai, does no one think that Aizen as powerful, deceptive and in possession of one of the most brilliant strategic an scientific minds in Bleach would be unable to confirm for himself over the course of 110 years whether or not Gin's Bankai does what he says it does? If no one does, then I guess I am overestimating Aizen's intelligence and competence.
When Gin used his Bankai's ability on Aizen, he was standing at a swords length to Aizen, holding onto the very sword welded to Aizen's hand that paired with it's speed of expansion and contraction Gin was able to peirce from almost directly in front of him and leave the poison in place, which then activated without having to move so much closer then he already had been.
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Problem here is that the sword"s length or extension speed is debunked by Gin as he stated itself it's true ability was simply turning into dust once it contracts.Theres no doubt Aizen would be able to dodge it by distance since he was superior to Ichigo at the time but he couldn't do it from close range though and it blitzed him in the process.
Btw there's no way Aizen knew of the real ability of Gins bankai: http://www.**********.com/bleach/414/20
Btw there's no way Aizen knew of the real ability of Gins bankai: http://www.**********.com/bleach/414/20
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Except that unlike what you claim, it hasn't been debunked because if it had there would be no questioning it would there?
I am not talking about him divining the truth about Kamishini's poison, just it's speed and length over the course of 110 year.
That page you are using doesn't explicitly deny my point either, Gin is just saying that he lied about the true power of his Bankai and that it doesn't lie in it's speed or length, but it's poison dust. So he led Aizen to believe his Bankai did one thing went it truly was capable of something much different.
Which was basically Gin omitting one crucial truth that Aizen could never figure out without witnessing/experiencing it himself and drawing the attention and focus to more obvious aspects of his Bankai.
Gin's Bankai in a few seconds expanded and cut in half much of Fake Karakura, his Bankai can't be too much off from his claims for it too really matter despite however much some claim it does.
I am not talking about him divining the truth about Kamishini's poison, just it's speed and length over the course of 110 year.
That page you are using doesn't explicitly deny my point either, Gin is just saying that he lied about the true power of his Bankai and that it doesn't lie in it's speed or length, but it's poison dust. So he led Aizen to believe his Bankai did one thing went it truly was capable of something much different.
Which was basically Gin omitting one crucial truth that Aizen could never figure out without witnessing/experiencing it himself and drawing the attention and focus to more obvious aspects of his Bankai.
Gin's Bankai in a few seconds expanded and cut in half much of Fake Karakura, his Bankai can't be too much off from his claims for it too really matter despite however much some claim it does.
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Absolutely, No idea. i'm sitting here thinking, and no idea.Illuminati478 said:
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If Gin didn't lie about its length nor extension speed he would not have explicitly stated otherwise and say "it doesn't extend as long as I said nor does it extend as fast as I said" afterwards firstly.
Secondly Ichigo mentioned something in their fight that he didn't take his eyes off his sword yet it came back together or something along those lines,the swords ability was merely turning into dust once it contracts it didn't extend 13 kilometers whether or not you are to assume that it must've not been that much slower is beyond me also are we to assume that his Bankai grew longer over the course of a hundred years?......
Secondly Ichigo mentioned something in their fight that he didn't take his eyes off his sword yet it came back together or something along those lines,the swords ability was merely turning into dust once it contracts it didn't extend 13 kilometers whether or not you are to assume that it must've not been that much slower is beyond me also are we to assume that his Bankai grew longer over the course of a hundred years?......
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Stop beating around the bush. It's was made official by Gin himself that his Bankai is not Mach 500 in speed. Gin lied to Aizen and then Ichigo about the speed and range of his Zanpakutou. He admitted to it after he stabbed Aizen when he revealed the actual power of his sword.
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no. He told ichigo it was mach 500, then later lied to Aizen about his zanpakuto. we have no idea how fast he told Aizen it was.Hfhfdgdg said:
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Then tell me this: For what reason would he say two different things for them? If Ichigo were to suddenly mention it within Aizen's range of hearing, Gin would be exposed. < That's not even the point. The point is that Aizen could have been watching Gin while placing everyone in his Shikai. If he would have said "Mach 1000" to Aizen and "Mach 200" to Ichigo, wouldn't that be stupid? We never even hear him tell Aizen the speed he lied about and with the speculation in my comment, it is only logical to assume that he told Aizen "Mach 500"LordAizenSama said:
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Meaning that while it can extend really fast, it may not be Mach 500 fast yea? @Aizen
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@hf you are making way too many assumptions there. You probably thought through that scenario more than Kubo did. Again there is no solid proof that what he told Ichigo is what he told Aizen and anything else is just speculation.
@cross It could be mach 500, it might not, i'd rather think that it is because the whole Gin lying thing goes nowhere. also it gives us a figure to go off of aswell.
@cross It could be mach 500, it might not, i'd rather think that it is because the whole Gin lying thing goes nowhere. also it gives us a figure to go off of aswell.
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