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PreTimeskip Bleach Speed

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He lied about his bankai he even told Aizen with the Ichigo fight flashback "it doesn't extent as long as I said nor does it extent as fast as I said" -https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3oReXfVBUXo
This is the anime.

There is no flashback in the manga, Gin says to Aizen 'I told you about my bankai a long time ago', he wasn't reffering to what he said to Ichigo

http://*********.com/Manga/Bleach/414?id=17291 "It doesn't extent as long as I said and it doesn't move that fast either"

He lied about it in general and it's his bankai not shikai...
 
@Chill hes talking to aizen, doesn't mean he lied to ichigo. anyway it's irrelevant lets not flood this thread with meaningless posts, thanks
 
He lied about his Bankai, he said 'IT' ( reffering to his Bankai )

When he stated the mach 500 speed he was talking about his Zanpakuto ( not his Bankai ), he said that his zanpakuto was the fastest then he said it extends at mach 500
 
WestWood7 said:
He lied about his Bankai, he said 'IT' ( reffering to his Bankai )

When he stated the mach 500 speed he was talking about his Zanpakuto ( not his Bankai ), he said that his zanpakuto was the fastest then he said it extends at mach 500
Click to expand...
No he clearly said bankai when he was fighting Ichigo ...
 
@non Isshin for sure, he put up a much better fight than Shunsui did. though Aizen was getting tired
 
Isshin was fighting a combat tired out Aizen and only hurt him with a Plot Tensho.

Shunsui was fighting Aizen who was using Kyoka Suigetsu. From what I can tell, there is no use of KS during his fight with Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi. Though we cannot eliminate the possibility.
 
The problem here is the unconsciousness of the bleach speed, i mean, pre-blood war, all of them were Mach 29 (and when i mean all them is ALL OF THEM) (Grimmjow Mach 29, Ulquiorra Mach 29, Stark Mach 29) except Monster Aizen and Post-Dangai Ichigo.

Then we jump to Massively Hypersonic (Around Mach 300) due to the Bambietta Shenanigans.

Then we jump again! to Massively Hypersonic (Around Mach 500) due to the arrival of ichigo at the Soul Society. After this we got Massively Hypersonic+ (Around Mach 3500) in the fight of Ichibe and Yhwach.

An then, Relativistic due to the mimihagi thing.

The unconsciousness of speed in the bleach verse is...uh.

And don't make talk about the OBD profiles. (Example: Kyoraku: Hypersonic+, Lille: Massively Hypersonic+)...

I'm really not sure. I will prefer to set down his speed once for all.

Not sure abouth Pre-Time Skip Speed.

But Post Time Skip (Current Arc) Mostly of them should be around Massively Hypersonic (Due the Bambietta Shenanigans)

Then Top Tiers like (Yamamoto, Ichibe, the royal guard, Ichigo, the elites sternritters, Haschwalth and maybe Aizen) should be Massively Hypersonic+. Mostly to set down all of this.

If someone finds a better stat to set down their speed i'm fine with that.
 
^^Shunsui becoming Mach 1000+ from Mach 29 within 2 years with almost zero training does not make any sense to you, does it? His been a captain for hundreds of years, I really doubt he and rest of the cast went through any magical training for no reason. They didn't know Yhwach and sternritters would invade
 
Faisal Shourov said:
^^Shunsui becoming Mach 1000+ from Mach 29 within 2 years with almost zero training does not make any sense to you, does it?
Click to expand...
Welcome to fiction. I've read a lot of series and seen character jump from Hypersonic+ to Speed of Light without 0 training.

And as you read it. Bleach verse it's really unconscious. Look the mimihagi thing...if you recall jump from hypersonic+ to MHS+ does not make any sense, then Sub-Relativistic for mimihagi is even worse.
 
Whatever the case, we have to obey the laws of powerscaling to sort out the inconsistency in their current speed
 
I am waiting for Schutzendunkelziel to make an analysis of this, but I do not think that we should powerscale retroactively. Fiction tends to be inconsistent on this point. It is better to find feats to calculate.
 
Antvasima said:
I am waiting for Schutzendunkelziel to make an analysis of this, but I do not think that we should powerscale retroactively. Fiction tends to be inconsistent on this point. It is better to find feats to calculate.
Click to expand...
This. Retroactive powerscaling tends to be very unreliable in almost all circumstances if done after too significant a period of time.
 
to the above, yes, but there is evidence to say that he could not have gotten stronger at all due to what Aizen said . which I think could be pivotal.

But yes I will just wait for Schutz' opinion of this aswell.
 
you mean the slowest? 60000 m/s is current accepted low end value for natural lightning speed, so i guess being as fast or faster would make you a lightning timer...
 
Well this is certainly interesting...

Sigh Alright I'll try to get this more or less sorted out in a bit...

Expect a reply in around 2-3 hours...
 
Well I more or less have a solution for this...

Before I go on however though I'd like to say that Bleach Characters are not Mach 29 they're Mach 29+ from SS Arc Bankai as be completely blitzed Byakuya's Bankai which is mach 29 without even using his full speed...

Now that that's out of the way regarding the scaling of this thing I'm a little iffy on it.

The current MHS+ for the rest of the RG members and the Elite Sternritter are from Ichibe's feat... yeah it doesn't seem right to place them at the exact Mach 3500 from Ichibe as he is their leader and should be stronger than them but it also doesn't seem right to place them at MHS as I seriously doubt that Ichibe is over 10 times faster than the rest of the RG. Also Senjumaru blitzed the hell out of Nianzol Weizol (who should be scalable to Bambi fodder's MHS feat).

So for the RG the MHS+ stat should stay but it should be mentioned that they are not mach 3500....

Now the Elite Sternritter... ok I can't say I agree with placing them at MHS+ as we didn't even properly view their fight with the RG members. So for them their speed stats should be: At least Massively Hypersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic+...

Now we come to Kyoraku... well he should likely get the same scaling of: At least Massively Hypersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic+...

Now we come to the main problem... Should Pre-Timeskip Kyoraku be MHS sure but should he be MHS+... I don't think so...

Reasons why:

1) He didn't use his Bankai against Starrk. We know why but I do think that he could've moved away from where the other fights were lured Starrk there and used it. Which leads to my point: he wasn't fighting seriously...

2) Another reason why he wouldn't fight seriously is because it should be obvious that he'd try to conserve his energy to fight Aizen.

Now another thing I would like to add here is Gin's Bankai of Mach 500. Now before everyone says he lied. I'd like to say two things... well one thing actually...

1) We don't know if he lied to both Ichigo and Aizen for all we know he could've said something different to Aizen. But this is a useless point as I can come up with two reasons why he would tell the same thing to both Aizen and Ichigo...

2) Even if Gin did lie to both Aizen and Ichigo. I highly doubt that Ichigo wouldn't notice if his bankai was far slower then what Gin said and same would Aizen hell it'd be impossible for Aizen to not notice if Gin's Bankai speed was so much slower than what he said it was...

Because of the above reasons I wouldn't really say that Gin's Bankai speed isn't MHS even if it isn't Mach 500...

Now the speed stats...

For the RG members besides Ichibe: Massively Hypersonic+

For the Elite Sternritter and Post Timeskip Kyoraku: At least Massively Hypersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic+

For Pre-timeskip characters (Base, Form 1-3 Aizen, Starrk, R2 Ulquiorra, H2 Ichigo, Gin Ichimaru, Yoruichi, Isshin Kurosaki, Urahara Kisuke): Massively Hypersonic.

For Final Form Aizen and Dangai Ichigo: At least Massively Hypersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic+ (Reason for this is because Aizen in just his first transformation really just stomped the hell out of Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi at the same time. I also doubt that any of the Royal Guards bar Ichibe are stronger or faster than them.)

Now I'm sure someone's gonna bring up the "Aizen failed to react to Gin's Bankai thing" well that was in his second form and well it seems more likely that he didn't avoid Gin's Bankai on purpose because he already knew Gin was gonna try and kill him and was actually interested in knowing what Gin would do to take his life and there is also the possibility that Aizen wanted to test the his current limits. Even still if they actually get this upgrade only Final Form Aizen should be placed at At least Massively Hypersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic+...

Well this is my analysis of things and it should make things a little more logical...
 
That's so true gin sword should be around mach 500. like you said Aizen and Ichigo would know if he was lying.
 
I am not particularly familiar with all the minutiae of Bleach. Why would Gin be Mach 500? Was it an explicitly stated number?
 
SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 said:
Whoa... did ya actually completely read that wall of text in what 6-7 minutes...
Click to expand...
Actually i re-read 3 times just to be sure in les than 3 minutes. No joke. lol
 
My post has 708 words in it so the time I believe that you read it thoroughly three times over in less than 3 minutes isn't anytime soon. Sorry...
 
Well, if the number is explicit, then shouldn't we be able to scale from it?
 
I can't agree with scaling the direct mach 500 from it as Gin lied to Aizen about it. We don't know if he said his bankai was mach 500 to Aizen but this still leaves some things to be questioned...

We should however be able to scale MHS speeds from it as there literally no possible way that his bankai is much slower than Mach 500...
 
I was thinking: What about Baraggan and halibel?

and what about pre-post time skip byakuya and the other captains?

and mostly of the sternritters should be they placed at MSH?
 
Okay. But if his sword was the fastest in soul society, should everybody else really automatically scale to it?
 
Bankai Ichigo could more or less react to it and not everyone is getting scaled to it. Only the strongest of high tiers are... if it actually get's scaled to anyone...
 
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