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I made a VS thread a while ago comparing both High 1-B versions of Molecule Man to see who was the stronger variation of the same being.
And in the thread - Molecule Man vs... Molecule Ma - it is currently believed to be an inconclusive match because of how comparable in power both versions of Molecule Man are to The Beyonder and The Beyonders. After pondering on which version is stronger, I then began to do some research and found numerous slides showcasing that Molecule Man and The Beyonder aren't comparable or equals, not in the slightest, and that The Beyonder is far stronger than Molecule Man. One person on the thread suggested I make a CRT, and here I am.
The Links:
From what I gather, there is a moment where the Beyonder is after Owen Reece, and Mr. Reece flat out states that he could never create a barrier strong enough to keep the Beyonder out. He even starts crying about it.
He does it anyway. And he was right to be scared as the Beyonder laughs off the barrier and breaks it with ease.
After this, Molecule Man sneak attacks the Beyonder as he enters the room that Owen is residing in, and the Beyonder tanked it with ease.
So Pre-Retcon Beyonder is in fact much stronger than Molecule Man. But by how much?
In a different moment in some comic, Owen Reece (to Captain America) says that he is unbelievably more powerful than Captain America and that the Beyonder is unbelievably more powerful than him. Seemingly by the same margin if his wording is anything to go by.
So The Beyonder is far stronger than realized if the difference in his power to Owen Reece's power is the same difference in power of the Molecule Man to Captian America.
This thread wouldn't affect what tier Molecule Man (Pre-Retcon) is at because he still would be High 1-B.
He was unanimously chosen by The Watchers as the one with the greatest chance at stopping The Beyonder, alluding that he was greater in power than the abstracts. This later shown to be the case as when Molecule Man does confront The Beyonder, all the abstracts move away from him in fear.
And when Molecule Man and The Beyonder did clash. Every creature on every planet in every dimension felt the multiversal tremors from the said clash.
And in the time of Pre-Retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man, the multiverse was stated to contain infinite dimensions.
So without a doubt, Molecule Man is still High 1-B, but he's just not comparable to The Beyonder. The difference between them is outstandingly enormous.
Possible Rebuttal:
I know that The Beyonder and Molecule Man are believed to be comparable to one another as shown in this sca, but that is a simple misunderstanding, as shortly after in this scan, it is shown that The Beyonder is overwhelming Molecule Man.
Changes:
Original
Beyonder:
Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (The Beyonder is an infinite-dimensional entity. He is one with the Beyond-Realm, which is in fact another Multiverse. Holds power millions of times greater than the regular Marvel Multiverse and of all its forces combined. Secret Wars II described the Multiverse as having infinite dimensions.)
Molecule Man:
Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (He was almost equal in power to the Beyonder) | At least Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ while Amped (Produced a "Trans-Multiversal" quake when clashing with The Beyonder) | High Hyperverse level (He absorbed The Beyonders' powers, and added them to his own)
Notes:
He originally gained his extraordinary abilities by mutation through exposure to radiation from an experimental particle generator. Later this origin was changed into that this opened a "pinhole" into the realm of the Beyonder. Later still to that it irradiated him with the energy that infuses a Cosmic Cube. And his most recent origin is that he was created by the Beyonders as a bomb to destroy all universes.
Before making any changes to this page, please read and follow the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics.
Redone:
Beyonder:
Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (The Beyonder is an infinite-dimensional entity. He is one with the Beyond-Realm, which is, in fact, another Multiverse. Molecule Ma stated that The Beyonder transcends him in the same way that he transcends Captain America. Holds power millions of times greater than the regular Marvel Multiverse and of all its forces combined. Secret Wars II described the Multiverse as having infinite dimensions.)
Molecule Man:
Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (He was unanimously chosen by The Watchers as the one with the greatest chance at stopping the Beyonder. All the abstracts move away from him in fear when Molecule Man confronts The Beyonder. Every creature on every planet in every dimension felt the multiversal tremors from the confrontation between Molecule Man and The Beyonder. And in Secret Wars II, the Multiverse was described as having infinite dimensions.) | At least Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ while Amped (Produced a "Trans-Multiversal" quake when clashing with The Beyonder) | High Hyperverse level (He absorbed The Beyonders' powers, and added them to his own)
Notes:
Contrary to popular belief, Pre-Retcon Molecule Man is actually significantly below Pre-Retcon Beyonder in terms of power. This is shown many times throughout Secret Wars II. A desperate Molecule Man begins crying about the futility of creating a barrier to keep out The Beyonder. After he does, in fact, create the barrier, The Beyonder laughs it off as a joke. Then, after The Beyonder makes it through the barrier into Molecule Man's home, he then tanks a "last resort" attack from Molecule Man without a scratch. Towards the end of Secret Wars II, Molecule Man clashes with The Beyonder. He quickly becomes overwhelmed. Right after, it is stated by Molecule Man himself, that The Beyonder transcends him in the same way that he transcends Captain America.
He originally gained his extraordinary abilities by mutation through exposure to radiation from an experimental particle generator. Later this origin was changed into that this opened a "pinhole" into the realm of the Beyonder. Later still to that, it irradiated him with the energy that infuses a Cosmic Cube. And his most recent origin is that he was created by the Beyonders as a bomb to destroy all universes.
Before making any changes to this page, please read and follow the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics.
Confession:
I think I should also mention that I am not a huge comic nerd and have not read these comic books, so if I am missing any imperative context, please mention it. Although I am pretty sure that what is shown in the scans and what I inferred from them is accurate.
Conclusion: Pre-Retcon Molecule Man, while still High 1-B, is not comparable to Pre-Retcon Molecule Man in the slightest. So this thread is my proposal to remove the current reasoning for his tier and replace it with scans stating that he is greater than the Abstracts which were also High 1-B, at the time. Also, it might be a good idea to mention that The Beyonder seemingly transcends Molecule Man in the same way Molecule Man transcends Captain America to The Beyonder's page as I believe that would make him a much more powerful High 1-B than currently rated.
For: 3 (Ryukama, Super Saiyan God Julia, ArceusBowser44)
Against: 1 (Matthew Schroeder)
Ambivalent: 1 (Quantu)
And in the thread - Molecule Man vs... Molecule Ma - it is currently believed to be an inconclusive match because of how comparable in power both versions of Molecule Man are to The Beyonder and The Beyonders. After pondering on which version is stronger, I then began to do some research and found numerous slides showcasing that Molecule Man and The Beyonder aren't comparable or equals, not in the slightest, and that The Beyonder is far stronger than Molecule Man. One person on the thread suggested I make a CRT, and here I am.
The Links:
From what I gather, there is a moment where the Beyonder is after Owen Reece, and Mr. Reece flat out states that he could never create a barrier strong enough to keep the Beyonder out. He even starts crying about it.
He does it anyway. And he was right to be scared as the Beyonder laughs off the barrier and breaks it with ease.
After this, Molecule Man sneak attacks the Beyonder as he enters the room that Owen is residing in, and the Beyonder tanked it with ease.
So Pre-Retcon Beyonder is in fact much stronger than Molecule Man. But by how much?
In a different moment in some comic, Owen Reece (to Captain America) says that he is unbelievably more powerful than Captain America and that the Beyonder is unbelievably more powerful than him. Seemingly by the same margin if his wording is anything to go by.
So The Beyonder is far stronger than realized if the difference in his power to Owen Reece's power is the same difference in power of the Molecule Man to Captian America.
This thread wouldn't affect what tier Molecule Man (Pre-Retcon) is at because he still would be High 1-B.
He was unanimously chosen by The Watchers as the one with the greatest chance at stopping The Beyonder, alluding that he was greater in power than the abstracts. This later shown to be the case as when Molecule Man does confront The Beyonder, all the abstracts move away from him in fear.
And when Molecule Man and The Beyonder did clash. Every creature on every planet in every dimension felt the multiversal tremors from the said clash.
And in the time of Pre-Retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man, the multiverse was stated to contain infinite dimensions.
So without a doubt, Molecule Man is still High 1-B, but he's just not comparable to The Beyonder. The difference between them is outstandingly enormous.
Possible Rebuttal:
I know that The Beyonder and Molecule Man are believed to be comparable to one another as shown in this sca, but that is a simple misunderstanding, as shortly after in this scan, it is shown that The Beyonder is overwhelming Molecule Man.
Changes:
Original
Beyonder:
Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (The Beyonder is an infinite-dimensional entity. He is one with the Beyond-Realm, which is in fact another Multiverse. Holds power millions of times greater than the regular Marvel Multiverse and of all its forces combined. Secret Wars II described the Multiverse as having infinite dimensions.)
Molecule Man:
Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (He was almost equal in power to the Beyonder) | At least Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ while Amped (Produced a "Trans-Multiversal" quake when clashing with The Beyonder) | High Hyperverse level (He absorbed The Beyonders' powers, and added them to his own)
Notes:
He originally gained his extraordinary abilities by mutation through exposure to radiation from an experimental particle generator. Later this origin was changed into that this opened a "pinhole" into the realm of the Beyonder. Later still to that it irradiated him with the energy that infuses a Cosmic Cube. And his most recent origin is that he was created by the Beyonders as a bomb to destroy all universes.
Before making any changes to this page, please read and follow the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics.
Redone:
Beyonder:
Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (The Beyonder is an infinite-dimensional entity. He is one with the Beyond-Realm, which is, in fact, another Multiverse. Molecule Ma stated that The Beyonder transcends him in the same way that he transcends Captain America. Holds power millions of times greater than the regular Marvel Multiverse and of all its forces combined. Secret Wars II described the Multiverse as having infinite dimensions.)
Molecule Man:
Attack Potency: High Hyperverse level (He was unanimously chosen by The Watchers as the one with the greatest chance at stopping the Beyonder. All the abstracts move away from him in fear when Molecule Man confronts The Beyonder. Every creature on every planet in every dimension felt the multiversal tremors from the confrontation between Molecule Man and The Beyonder. And in Secret Wars II, the Multiverse was described as having infinite dimensions.) | At least Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ while Amped (Produced a "Trans-Multiversal" quake when clashing with The Beyonder) | High Hyperverse level (He absorbed The Beyonders' powers, and added them to his own)
Notes:
Contrary to popular belief, Pre-Retcon Molecule Man is actually significantly below Pre-Retcon Beyonder in terms of power. This is shown many times throughout Secret Wars II. A desperate Molecule Man begins crying about the futility of creating a barrier to keep out The Beyonder. After he does, in fact, create the barrier, The Beyonder laughs it off as a joke. Then, after The Beyonder makes it through the barrier into Molecule Man's home, he then tanks a "last resort" attack from Molecule Man without a scratch. Towards the end of Secret Wars II, Molecule Man clashes with The Beyonder. He quickly becomes overwhelmed. Right after, it is stated by Molecule Man himself, that The Beyonder transcends him in the same way that he transcends Captain America.
He originally gained his extraordinary abilities by mutation through exposure to radiation from an experimental particle generator. Later this origin was changed into that this opened a "pinhole" into the realm of the Beyonder. Later still to that, it irradiated him with the energy that infuses a Cosmic Cube. And his most recent origin is that he was created by the Beyonders as a bomb to destroy all universes.
Before making any changes to this page, please read and follow the Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics.
Confession:
I think I should also mention that I am not a huge comic nerd and have not read these comic books, so if I am missing any imperative context, please mention it. Although I am pretty sure that what is shown in the scans and what I inferred from them is accurate.
Conclusion: Pre-Retcon Molecule Man, while still High 1-B, is not comparable to Pre-Retcon Molecule Man in the slightest. So this thread is my proposal to remove the current reasoning for his tier and replace it with scans stating that he is greater than the Abstracts which were also High 1-B, at the time. Also, it might be a good idea to mention that The Beyonder seemingly transcends Molecule Man in the same way Molecule Man transcends Captain America to The Beyonder's page as I believe that would make him a much more powerful High 1-B than currently rated.
For: 3 (Ryukama, Super Saiyan God Julia, ArceusBowser44)
Against: 1 (Matthew Schroeder)
Ambivalent: 1 (Quantu)
