Pre-Retcon Molecule Man AP Justification Change

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that the Tribunal was claimed to be stronger than Oblivion in a 2000s handbook entry, but later established to be unable to withstand the destruction of the multiverse, whereas only Oblivion would remain, so that is a contradiction regarding this specific issue as well.

 

[Ryukama]

Alright. At least there is proof then. Maybe Matt can give input on that, or during the TLT respect thread. Not gonna respond here anymore though.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am personally fine with upgrading the Tribunal to to "At least High 1-B, likely 1-A" based on the 2000s handbook entry, and a Silver Surfer story mention that he is beyond space and time.

Given the end of this discussion, should we close this thread?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

You didn't mention about my short explanation of PR Beyonder of what I found earlier IIRC.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you remind us what that was about?

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antvasima As I mentioned earlier:

Pre-Retcon Beyonder's Beyond Realm (beyond all Space and Ti...you get the point) is his Non-Corporeal form, which only that makes him 1-A:

"Energy from the Cosmic Cube coalesced in a realm beyond all time and space, and slowly became sentient. The Beyonder was the totality of the Beyond Realm and the Beyond Realm was the non-corporeal form of the Beyonder."

And PR Beyonder's physical bodies (the ones you see the Beyonder in) are nothing more than just his Manifestations/Avatars to the real thing and are dimensionally bounded unlike his true self, which is boundless.

Pre-Retcon Beyonder should be similar to the Oblivion profile and his key should be something like "Manifestations | Beyonder Realm / True Beyonder."

 

[TheSandman31]

Wasnt the Beyond realm empty because the Beyonder left? How could that be if The Beyonder we see is nothing but just his avatar?

 

[Antvasima]

@TheSandman31

Yes, the Beyond Realm was stated to be completely empty without the Beyonder, so his physical body was not just an avatar.

There are contradictory statements about the nature of the Beyonder and his realm, which we have linked to in his profile page explanation text, and have lead us to give him an "At least High 1-B, likely 1-A" rating.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Antvasima "Yes, the Beyond Realm was stated to be completely empty without the Beyonder, so his physical body was not just an avatar."

Technically yes but it doesn't mean that it's non-existent though.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, this discussion derailed far too much off course to recover. As such, it is probably best to close it and start a new discussion instead.

 

[Antvasima]

I will close this discussion now. You can start a new one if you need to. My apologies about the trouble.