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Power Stars Low 2-C Upgrade

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And there you have it. Alright, this changes everything. Not only this confirms the realms aren't universes but aren't even created. Thank you Antasima and Oliphoth. Well, we might as well start revaluating the tier for the Power Stars while we are still in a CRT about them. Luckily, it shouldn't be too hard. We have to change the rating of the Power Stars, first of all. Since we no longer have a 4-A feat, we have to go with a new lowball. We can go with Super Mario Galaxy, since Lumas can turn into planets. However, some of the planets they turned into are way smaller than actual sized ones but that's how it is. There's also the Power Star that created the black hole in Hurry Scurry Galaxy, so if someone could get a calc out of that, it would be appreciated. With that being said, the rating needs to change if people still want to keep the tiers related to the Power Stars in terms of fighting bosses empowered by them and if that does end up being the case, here's the new rating:

At Least '"5-B"', possibly '"Low 2-C"' | '"5-B"' to '"3-C"', possibly '"Low 2-C"'

Why only 5-B for the base key? Because 4-A is no long part of the Power Stars' rating now. On top of that, it's a variable tier, so we have to go with the absolute minimal. We can't expect every boss to be above that tier. Keep in mind that Lumas have turned into planets way smaller in both Galaxy games, so don't accuse this of being downplay. However, the calc from said black hole could change this since it's the only feat the Power Stars are capable of doing beyond comparisons to beings with the feats in the first place. With the Power Stars keys, however, we can safely believe the users, who are either the Star Children and/or very intelligent can bring use their power into their full potential. (PS Donkey Kong's Power Star key needs to go. The Power Stars his profile's referring to are actually the Stars from Mario Party, which are completely different to the Power Stars in the main Mario platformers.)

If people still wishes to use the '''4-A''' tier for the other feats related to it, that would be fine (If they are acceptable and actually legit, this time) but now that tier is no longer associated with the Power Stars, we have to either remove the key altogether, replace it with "higher", or remove the '''4-A''' tier (Which is the least likely to work since it's a variable tier) as so:

'''4-A''', '''higher''' with Power Stars, possibly ''' Low 2-C'''

or '''4-A, possibly '''2-C'''

or '''4-A''' , possibly '''Low 2-C''' | '''3-C''', possibly '''Low 2-C'''

Again, Donkey Kong should be exempt from having a Power Star key. Power Stars and the Stars in Mario Party are completely different. The choice is yours in which of these approaches you guys want to take and you may not agree with any of this but the reliable sources have spoken and we have rules to follow. One way or another, you can't break the wiki's standards.
 
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Dino_Ranger_Black said:
If people still wishes to use the '''4-A''' tier for the other feats related to it, that would be fine but now that tier is no longer associated with the Power Stars, we have to either remove the key altogether, replace it with "higher", or remove the '''4-A''' tier (Which is the least likely to work since it's a variable tier) as so:

'''4-A''', '''higher''' with Power Stars, possibly ''' Low 2-C''' or '''4-A, possibly '''2-C''' or '''4-A''' , possibly '''Low 2-C''' | '''3-C''', possibly '''Low 2-C'''

Again, I believe Donkey Kong should be exempt from having a Power Star key. The choice is yours in which of these approaches you guys want to take and you may not agree with any of this but the reliable sources have spoken and we have rules to follow. One way or another, you can't break the wiki's standards.
Click to expand...
Even though I don't actually agree with the translation, you are aware that this kills off 4-A being a consistent tier for the whole as Low 2-C is actually more consistent now? And that it isn't actually a variable tier but two tiers?
 
Tl;dr of Dino’s assessment:

  • Power Star 4-A feat needs to be removed if the Power Stars creating the painting worlds is a mistranslation (King Boo and Brobot still exist tho)
  • Donkey Kong should lose his Power Star key


Note that without the 4-A feat there are still two other High 4-C feats, including the black hole from Galaxy and Stars forming constellations in MP4. Mario also fought Antasma who scales to Dreamy Luigi’s High 4-C feat, so I wouldn’t recommend 5-B.
 
DragonLord said:
Can’t speak on the Mario Party DS Stuff but “gains more power from the castle” sounds... well odd, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s another translation error there since we’re on Mario 64 translation
Click to expand...
That's actually in reference to Power Stars, because Power Stars are what's used to protect the castle. So the power from the castle is the power of the stars.
 
By the way, the default would be 3-C for Power Stars when worst comes to worst. A single Luma can become a Galaxy when full, and since a Power Stars is essentially an adult Luma, they shouldn't at all scale to their weaker variation.
 
Okay so your logic here is be that the super tiny planets that are realistic not any were close to the limit of a Luma which it is implied lumas are not usually able to become power stars other lumas have have also became galaxies containing power stars, directly counter acted the reactor which was absorbing energy from the grand star over an unknown period of time, one became the beacon who had this quote "That ball of flame represents the power of the observatory. We call it the beacon. When you recover a Grand Star, a little Star Power will be restored, and the beacon will grow.”
 
Lou_change said:
Okay so your logic here is be that the super tiny planets that are realistic not any were close to the limit of a Luma which it is implied lumas are not usually able to become power stars other lumas have have also became galaxies containing power stars, directly counter acted the reactor which was absorbing energy from the grand star over an unknown period of time, one became the beacon who had this quote "That ball of flame represents the power of the observatory. We call it the beacon. When you recover a Grand Star, a little Star Power will be restored, and the beacon will grow.”
Click to expand...
I think you typed a little too fast there, I can barely read what this is saying, no offense
 
I guess since people want input, I got my GF to ask a friend she had with medium Japanese experience and She got this from the two things I was wondering about


image0.png

１００枚コインのスターを手に入れた！お城のパワーがまた一つマリオに力を与えた。
you got the 100 coin star! the castle's power gave mario another boost.

image1.png

クッパはパワースターを使って「壁」や「絵」の中に怪物の国を作ろうとしています。スターを取り返して！
bowser is trying to use the power stars to create a monster kingdom in the walls and paintings. go get the stars back!
 
I wouldn’t want to disturb Qliphoth but I think there’s at least something I’m missing here they seemed to have gotten from the text
 
Starsprite53 said:
つくろうと = Tsukurou" is the volitive form of "tsukuru" which means "make", "build".
It doesn't mean cover up.
That expression doesn't even make sense here.
unknown.png

Also, "naka ni" is "inside", not "submerged".
なか naka, に ni
"submerged" is only used for something underwater.(credits for zerotwo)
Click to expand...
 
Dino_Ranger_Black said:
And there you have it. Alright, this changes everything. Not only this confirms the realms aren't universes but aren't even created. Thank you Antasima and Oliphoth. Well, we might as well start revaluating the tier for the Power Stars while we are still in a CRT about them. Luckily, it shouldn't be too hard. We have to change the rating of the Power Stars, first of all. Since we no longer have a 4-A feat, we have to go with a new lowball. We can go with Super Mario Galaxy, since Lumas can turn into planets. However, some of the planets they turned into are way smaller than actual sized ones but that's how it is. There's also the Power Star that created the black hole in Hurry Scurry Galaxy, so if someone could get a calc out of that, it would be appreciated. With that being said, the rating needs to change if people still want to keep the tiers related to the Power Stars in terms of fighting bosses empowered by them and if that does end up being the case, here's the new rating:

At Least '"5-B"', possibly '"Low 2-C"' | '"5-B"' to '"3-C"', possibly '"Low 2-C"'

Why only 5-B for the base key? Because 4-A is no long part of the Power Stars' rating now. On top of that, it's a variable tier, so we have to go with the absolute minimal. We can't expect every boss to be above that tier. Keep in mind that Lumas have turned into planets way smaller in both Galaxy games, so don't accuse this of being downplay. However, the calc from said black hole could change this since it's the only feat the Power Stars are capable of doing beyond comparisons to beings with the feats in the first place. With the Power Stars keys, however, we can safely believe the users, who are either the Star Children and/or very intelligent can bring use their power into their full potential. (PS Donkey Kong's Power Star key needs to go. The Power Stars his profile's referring to are actually the Stars from Mario Party, which are completely different to the Power Stars in the main Mario platformers.)

If people still wishes to use the '''4-A''' tier for the other feats related to it, that would be fine (If they are acceptable and actually legit, this time) but now that tier is no longer associated with the Power Stars, we have to either remove the key altogether, replace it with "higher", or remove the '''4-A''' tier (Which is the least likely to work since it's a variable tier) as so:

'''4-A''', '''higher''' with Power Stars, possibly ''' Low 2-C'''

or '''4-A, possibly '''2-C'''

or '''4-A''' , possibly '''Low 2-C''' | '''3-C''', possibly '''Low 2-C'''

Again, Donkey Kong should be exempt from having a Power Star key. Power Stars and the Stars in Mario Party are completely different. The choice is yours in which of these approaches you guys want to take and you may not agree with any of this but the reliable sources have spoken and we have rules to follow. One way or another, you can't break the wiki's standards.
Click to expand...
Thank you for helping out Dino.
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you for helping out Dino.
Click to expand...
You know he just agreed to remove 4-A without realizing it? If the power star tier isn't 4-A, then that removes one out of the three the 4-A feats Mario has on his profile, which then means Low 2-C is the main tiering (considering there's 3 Low 2-C, and 2 4-A feats.) He mentioned a "varies" between 4-A and Low 2-C, but there isn't a varies on his profile at all, it's just "4-A, likely Low 2-C". 5-B also doesn't even make sense for the base key, because Lumas can create entire galaxies, and even stop the Universe from collapsing, and Power Stars are supposed to be grown up Lumas. Why would Power Stars be less than 3-C or Low 2-C if they're all grown up?
 
I don’t really think I’m for “Well now Low 2-C is the most consistent”, if you judge from just sheer amount Mario (and a lot of characters) would just be building level, as that is there most common feats
 
DragonLord said:
I don’t really think I’m for “Well now Low 2-C is the most consistent”, if you judge from just sheer amount Mario (and a lot of characters) would just be building level, as that is there most common feats
Click to expand...
You're also way too quick to assume, please wait a bit as we might have something important.
 
liluzivert said:
You know he just agreed to remove 4-A without realizing it? If the power star tier isn't 4-A, then that removes one out of the three the 4-A feats Mario has on his profile, which then means Low 2-C is the main tiering (considering there's 3 Low 2-C, and 2 4-A feats.) He mentioned a "varies" between 4-A and Low 2-C, but there isn't a varies on his profile at all, it's just "4-A, likely Low 2-C". 5-B also doesn't even make sense for the base key, because Lumas can create entire galaxies, and even stop the Universe from collapsing, and Power Stars are supposed to be grown up Lumas. Why would Power Stars be less than 3-C or Low 2-C if they're all grown up?
Click to expand...
@Dino_Ranger_Black

What do you think?
 
DragonLord said:
Hey I mean if you wanna argue consistency 🗿
Click to expand...
I mean, if we REALLY want to go there, then we'd have to downgrade a plethora of other verses aside from Mario, like Sonic, Bleach, Kirby, etc. Not every character is gonna bust universes each time they fight. It is nothing more but an "Area of Effect" Fallacy, and just because buildings get destroyed consistently doesn't mean the character's power isn't higher than said tier.
 
liluzivert said:
I mean, if we REALLY want to go there, then we'd have to downgrade a plethora of other verses aside from Mario, like Sonic, Bleach, Kirby, etc. Not every character is gonna bust universes each time they fight. It is nothing more but an "Area of Effect" Fallacy, and just because buildings get destroyed consistently doesn't mean the character's power isn't higher than said tier.
Click to expand...
I was joking, of course I know this I’m just saying that arguing with sheer amount is going to lead to a lot of, well to put it lightly questions
 
DragonLord said:
I was joking, of course I know this I’m just saying that arguing with sheer amount is going to lead to a lot of, well to put it lightly questions
Click to expand...
Well, sheer amount of feats is usually how character tiers are determined here. If there are say, 7 Low 2-C feats and 3 4-B feats, then the character's tier is just gonna be Low 2-C. The 4-B showings would either be considered fodder or an outlier for the character's strength. However, lower tier showings such as wall or building level are very common in fiction, and are usually not the max power said character can reach.
 
The Hurry Scurry Galaxy calculation was already High 4-C. But anyway, I'm fine with that being the low end for the Power Stars as I think it's more reliable than the random 5-B low ends.
 
I think if we're discussing the scaling, we should be clear about the feats the cast have. These are the ones that are already accepted, to my knowledge. If I missed anything, let me know.

5-B: Power Stars being superior to Lumas who can become planets

4-C: Power Stars being superior to Lumas who can become stars
Yoshi creating a constellation with a star after defeating Raphael

High 4-C: Power Stars destroying the Hurry Scurry Galaxy black hole
Dreamy Luigi manipulating constellations
Mario Party power star creating 12 other stars

4-A: Brobot creating and destroying a realm with numerous stars
King Boo creating and manipulating realms with numerous stars
Rosalina creating a space with numerous stars
Yoshi's Story storybook (can't find this one on the profiles, mind you)

3-C: Power Stars being superior to Lumas who can become galaxies

Low 2-C: Black Jewel creating and destroying a parallel universe
The Grand Star causing the destruction of the universe via a supermassive black hole
Bowser + Rosalina's forcefields surviving said destruction of the universe
Mario, Peach and Bowser surviving the complete destruction of Sammer's Kingdom

And then SM64 power star feats are being contended in this thread, which would either be 4-A (creating a realm with numerous stars) or Low 2-C (creating parallel universes/expanding painting worlds to encompass all of reality). Feats in italics are also done by Power Stars, so they're reliant on the Power Star rating.
 
Last edited:
GyroNutz said:
I think if we're discussing the scaling, we should be clear about the feats the cast have. These are the ones that are already accepted, to my knowledge. If I missed anything, let me know.

5-B: Power Stars being superior to Lumas who can become planets

4-C: Power Stars being superior to Lumas who can become stars
Yoshi creating a constellation with a star after defeating Raphael

High 4-C: Power Stars destroying the Hurry Scurry Galaxy black hole
Dreamy Luigi manipulating constellations
Mario Party power star creating 12 other stars

4-A: Brobot creating and destroying a realm with numerous stars
King Boo creating and manipulating realms with numerous stars
Rosalina creating a space with numerous stars
Yoshi's Story storybook (can't find this one on the profiles, mind you)

3-C: Power Stars being superior to Lumas who can become galaxies

Low 2-C: Black Jewel creating and destroying a parallel universe
The Grand Star causing the destruction of the universe via a supermassive black hole
Bowser + Rosalina's forcefields surviving said destruction of the universe
Mario, Peach and Bowser surviving the complete destruction of Sammer's Kingdom

And then SM64 power star feats are being contended in this thread, which would either be 4-A (creating a realm with numerous stars) or Low 2-C (creating parallel universes/expanding painting worlds to encompass all of reality). Feats in italics are also done by Power Stars, so they're reliant on the Power Star rating.
Click to expand...
@DarkDragonMedeus @Dino_Ranger_Black @GyroNutz

What should we do based on the above information?
 
5-B seems like an unnecessary low end, and same with 4-C but High 4-C seems like a bare minimum. DatOneWeeb's friend also might looks at the translation for the Mario 64 stuff. I still think At least 4-A, possibly Low 2-C makes sense for the main cast. And I'd prefer to wait for more input regarding the Power Stars, but I wouldn't mind a High 4-C low-end there, with a likely Galaxy level and possibly Low 2-C. Similar to what Dino had it above but replacing 5-B with High 4-C.
 
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