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Power Stars Low 2-C Upgrade

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I agree “worldwide levels” and “bottomless pits” are comparatively weak evidence, but if the painting worlds indeed mirror Mario’s universe in size I agree with Low 2-C
 
Starsprite53 said:
Ok then
IMG_20210515_180222.jpg

They used the kanji "世界" which means world/universe
And "別の" which means another
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There’s also this
 
IMG_20210517_195539.jpg

That word is used to talk either about something global or universal. And the context means range/size
But the worlds inside the paintings can contain stars and some of them are even stated to be infinite in size so...
globally
/ˈɡləʊb(ə)li/
Learn to pronounce

adverb
  1. in a way that relates to the whole world.
    "firms that can compete globally"
    • in a way that relates to the whole of something.
      "they do not often go into all the little fine detail; they look at it
    • globally"
 
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Yeah, there's def enough context to support the painting worlds mirroring Mario's.

If that wording had said "a world appeared!" instead of "another world appeared" there'd def be more of am argument.

The 4-A sizes we accept are kind of a supporting piece of evidence in of itself, since acknowledging they contain more than a planet and yet mirrors Mario's main world (which is a universe in size) kinda leads one down the path of assuming the painting worlds would also be a universe in size.

Again, everything else like the definitions and infinite statements are merely supporting pieces of evidence, and I called out the fact that's all the opposition would attack from the start of the thread.
 
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I should also add that Power Stars are seen powering the bosses that were previously powered by Grand Stars. The only difference being Mario"s able to be killed in one hit, but this would still be scaling somewhat to Low 2-C.

Even in the first Galaxy you have enemies like King Kaliente who came back to be powered up by a Grand Star, and while he does appear a bit more powered up Mario just defeats him the same way. There's also the opposite in Galaxy 2, where Gobblegut is powered by a Grand Star when you first battle him, but his next fights involve him being powered by a Power Star.

 
Dino_Ranger_Black said:
Denied. All of this are mere fabrications and loopholes to the actual context of the game itself. Worldwide? Extra Dimensional Space? Infinite Underworlds? They are mere hyperbolic statement to describe the situations at hand, not details of the world itself.
Click to expand...
Want to prove ur claims or nah?
 
Dino and Medeus make sense to me. I think that our previous "At least 4-A, likely Low 2-C" compromise solution should be enough.
 
Daredevil comets sounds more like it's being used to weaken Mario than it is amping the enemies I should probably mention, so iffy about using a regular power star for the rematch despite original fight consisting of a Grand Star. Not to mention, if all Power Stars were Low 2-C in general via downscaling from Grand Stars, than pretty much every Luma in existence would also be Low 2-C via downscaling from Grand Stars, which kind of hurts the plot of the original Galaxy game. If there are Low 2-C stuff for other reasons then maybe, but I also think the Daredevil stuff is a ban example.
 
Antvasima said:
Dino and Medeus make sense to me. I think that our previous "At least 4-A, likely Low 2-C" compromise solution should be enough.
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I don't think it does. A lot of these staff members will come in, see an upgrade, and will stick up bad arguments up to the wall and hope it works. They stretch things out of proportion just to prevent any sort of upgrade. And honestly, I'm tired of seeing it.

This compromise deal seems nothing more than an attempt to satisfy people's feelings, because they don't have actual legit reasons for why 4-A should stay, it's just "I don't believe it, in my head it's not real, playable Toad doesn't scale because in my mind he's a joke, none of the bosses scale because they're different each game (even though they should logically sale due to the site's rules), don't add it it's wrong!!!". All this does is sacrifice site validity just for some staff's feelings to be in tact, and that just sets a horrible precedent for the site. We can't even get past one of the most easiest fallacies to avoid here.
 
liluzivert said:
I don't think it does. A lot of these staff members will come in, see an upgrade, and will stick up bad arguments up to the wall and hope it works. They stretch things out of proportion just to prevent any sort of upgrade. And honestly, I'm tired of seeing it.

This compromise deal seems nothing more than an attempt to satisfy people's feeli8ngs, because they don't have actual legit reasons for why 4-A should stay, it's just "I don't believe it, in my head it's not real, playable Toad doesn't scale because in my mind he's a joke, none of the bosses scale because they're different each game (even though they should logically sale due to the site's rules), don't add it it's wrong!!!". All this does is sacrifice site validity just for some staff's feelings to be in tact, and that just sets a horrible precedent for the site. We can't even get past one of the most easiest fallacies to avoid here.
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You seem irrational. Please calm down with some Bob Ross!

 
liluzivert said:
I don't think it does. A lot of these staff members will come in, see an upgrade, and will stick up bad arguments up to the wall and hope it works. They stretch things out of proportion just to prevent any sort of upgrade. And honestly, I'm tired of seeing it.

This compromise deal seems nothing more than an attempt to satisfy people's feelings, because they don't have actual legit reasons for why 4-A should stay, it's just "I don't believe it, in my head it's not real, playable Toad doesn't scale because in my mind he's a joke, none of the bosses scale because they're different each game (even though they should logically sale due to the site's rules), don't add it it's wrong!!!". All this does is sacrifice site validity just for some staff's feelings to be in tact, and that just sets a horrible precedent for the site. We can't even get past one of the most easiest fallacies to avoid here.
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I don't see the need to get like this, this is a thread for us to talk about things.

and things like toad and the superstars we will talk about after all this, not for nothing has a thread planned for that, let's not get out of what we are looking for now.
 
Should I delete the derailment?
 
TUHTPeaSkull12 said:
I don't see the need to get like this, this is a thread for us to talk about things.

and things like toad and the superstars we will talk about after all this, not for nothing has a thread planned for that, let's not get out of what we are looking for now.
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I was using it as an example, but yes. Sorry for being rude, but I just want to see people address all of the points. Dino flat out ignored everything else about the OP and just attacked the weak points without addressing anything else. And while DDM has been far more reasonable, he hasn't addressed the parallel world/mirrors our world statements.
 
Oh well it's understandable, but on the other hand we don't all have time for this, it was probably a quick comment without seeing much of the arguments.

in any case, we are still discussing all this, so we just have to wait and see if everything is talking here.
liluzivert said:
I was using it as an example, but yes. Sorry for being rude, but I just want to see people address all of the points. Dino flat out ignored everything else about the OP and just attacked the weak points without addressing anything else. And while DDM has been far more reasonable, he hasn't addressed the parallel world/mirrors our world statements.
Click to expand...
 
I didn't really see anything about the painting worlds being parallel to "Our world". There are statements of Bowser being able to "Reach over to our world" and "Encompass all reality" but it just means the range will eventually reach the real world. The terms "Alternate Worlds" combined with "3-dimensional spaces", "Worldwide dimensions" and all that proves that they're clearly bodies of spaces large enough to have starry skies. But those statements don't really confirm they're parallel to the real world or Mushroom Kingdom. I'm going off the OP; I didn't even see the world "Parallel" in the OP or all of page 1 when I searched for it.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I didn't really see anything about the painting worlds being parallel to "Our world". There are statements of Bowser being able to "Reach over to our world" and "Encompass all reality" but it just means the range will eventually reach the real world. The terms "Alternate Worlds" combined with "3-dimensional spaces", "Worldwide dimensions" and all that proves that they're clearly bodies of spaces large enough to have starry skies. But those statements don't really confirm they're parallel to the real world or Mushroom Kingdom. I'm going off the OP; I didn't even see the world "Parallel" in the OP or all of page 1 when I searched for it.
Click to expand...
You won't see the word parallel, you'll see the word "another". Which is used to refer an additional thing that's similar. This is used multiple times throughout the game.

"Reach over to our world" does mean that it has the range to reach the real world, but "Encompass all reality" is a flat out Universal statement, and this statement is very important to know when I go over it.

- "Bowser stole the Power Stars that protected the castle and hid them away in magical painting worlds."

- "It is assumed that Bowser, with the power of the Stars at his disposal, intends to extend his reach over the real world."

- "One school of thought believes that Bowser will turn Peach and her entourage into a sort of zombie army, then let them lose on our world."
- "A competing theory suggests that Bowser will simply extend his painting worlds so that they encompass all of reality."

All of these terms refer to world as a synonym, not something different. They are all classified to be the same thing, and this is legit according to the standards here if they mirror the real world. But I want to go into more detail.

You're implying these realms are just 4-A starry skies, and that isn't a bad assumption, it's just that there's multiple things that contradict this.

  • If the realms are implied as the same term "world" just like the real world, then wouldn't that mean Mario's universe is just 4-A if the painting worlds are 4-A?
  • If the word "sekai" is used to describe the worlds in Japanese, which can both mean planet and universe. Then wouldn't it be a better assumption to just say it means universe, because the extent of them is 4-A and thus already reaches out into space?

And lastly, "A competing theory suggests that Bowser will simply extend his painting worlds so that they encompass all of reality."

The sentence straight up compares world to reality. Reality is the specified term of how far Bowser will extend his reach in the real world, and the real world was already compared to the painting worlds. This means that the game specifies that the real world does indeed mean universe, not world. And the fact that the paintings use the the term "world" as synonyms, then that means they would be similar.



The site itself has exceptions to these rules, but the terms used already passes these exceptions.
  • Being "Different Worlds, Realms, or Dimensions" requires more elaborate context and even "Dreams, Imaginations and Ideas becoming reality" is not enough to say the "Worlds" are entire universes. "Becoming Reality" often simply refers more to "Becoming a piece of reality" as opposed to each and every Dream becoming and "Entire Reality".
  • Saying that it "Mirrors your world" does not automatically equate to mirroring the entire universe you came from as World can also mean planet. And it can even refer to locations in between planet and Universe. And even if the realms are larger than planet sized, the "Your World" aspect often refers to specific sceneries rather than the entire Space-Time Continuum. And just because world frequently refers to universe doesn't mean everything larger than a planet that is called a world is a universe.

The game describes the real world as all of reality, which debunks the first exception. And since the painting worlds are compared to all of reality, this means that the second exception is irrelevant, because the game describes world as reality. The chances of these worlds just referring to a starry star realm are now significantly lower if they are compared to an entire reality. And I feel as if it would cause so many inconsistencies if we describes the painting worlds as just 4-A.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I didn't really see anything about the painting worlds being parallel to "Our world". There are statements of Bowser being able to "Reach over to our world" and "Encompass all reality" but it just means the range will eventually reach the real world. The terms "Alternate Worlds" combined with "3-dimensional spaces", "Worldwide dimensions" and all that proves that they're clearly bodies of spaces large enough to have starry skies. But those statements don't really confirm they're parallel to the real world or Mushroom Kingdom. I'm going off the OP; I didn't even see the world "Parallel" in the OP or all of page 1 when I searched for it.
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But that wasn't my point. Another is a synonym for parallel. It's another world. Another of what world was it compared to? Mario's. My main focus at this point is that in the context, they use the term world for both Mario's universe (all of reality, the real world) and the same as Bowser's paintings. Due to both of them using the same terms (it'd be dumb to say anytime they mean world for Mario's world meaning universe, but not Bowser's) it's a comparison we can do.
 
You may have a point with the Comets, DDM, but Gobblegut's second fight wasn't a comet. It was a regular fight that you get a Power Star from.

Also what is wrong with Lumas not being Low 2-C? I thought we discussed in the other thread that you can't take a very small amount of something with Low 2-C energy and have it be a different tier. All of the Lumas contributed to the Low 2-C feat, so by the logic we've discussed before they'd still be Low 2-C for doing so.
 
I just want to make it clear that Bowser gaining a feat from "encompassing all of reality" isn't really relevant. The main point is that the game explains what they mean by Bowser reaching the real world, by explaining that he is reaching all of reality, not planet, or a star cluster. If the real world refers to all of reality, then the painting worlds would be the same size, because both real world and painting world use the term "world".

The burden of proof is on the opposing side, because they have to prove that the painting worlds are simply pocket dimensions, similarly to how if a character is stated to be able to destroy 2 universes, and someone said that one of the universes is only a pocket universe, they would have to prove it. Considering that both places are stated to be universes and use the same terminology, it's only fair to assume that said character can destroy 2 universes. And in this context, world does refer to universe.
 
And yeah I think people are missing the point.

The painting worlds are directly compared to the real world which makes up all of reality. "Another world" being said as Mario travels from his home world to the painting world of Bob-Omb's Battlefield.

Regardless of if the feat would happen over time, saying that from his painting worlds he would extends his reach to the real/our world (as in Mario's) and have them encompass all of reality is a pretty blatant comparison in that the painting worlds are similar sizes and that "world" in this context refers to a universe.

As far as I can recall there's nothing stating the painting worlds are pocket dimensions either. They are worlds. Clearly not just a planet via having starry skies, so there's only one more assumption to make when they use "world" in conjunction with the real world/Mario's World and all of reality.

Just to clarify, when we say "real world" or "our world" it's in reference to the characters saying such in-universe. Just saying this cause I feel like there might be confusion. It's only in the perspective of the characters. Just know this going forward.
 
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It seems like this suggestion has been rejected so far.
 
Our staff do not seem to agree with it.
 
Dino mostly attacked the supportive/weak points without paying attention to the main/strong such as "another world" "our world" etc
The kanji 世界 means either world or universe (even the word world itself can mean either planet or universe depends on the context) but it cannot refer to planet since there is stars and sun.
Espacially since it was compared to Mario's world (our, real world and painting worlds, another world)
Claiming it only specifically reflects mario's solar system is weird as heck (and the other side needs proof for their claims)
And here comes the supportive arguments: we have two Infinite size scans from two different levels, worldwide/globally and a different flow of time (the latter doesn't always mean universe by default but we use it as support)
 
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