Potential Issue with Bloodborne and Dark Souls ratings

[Foxthefox1000]

So like, I was busy looking at the reddit for Bloodborne and there was a comment in a post that intrigued me. Let me show you two specific images that have some potential issues and implications for both franchises.



As you can see here, we have pictures of the famous Dark Souls 3 Sun and the Moon from Bloodborne. Now what is the issue here, you ask?

Look carefully at the backgrounds of both of these. The one is a gif in-game so you can literally see there there is a movement of clouds BEHIND the sun. Anyone can tell you this is NOT how actual cosmological objects work within atmospheres. Clouds should logically cover these bodies that aren't within the atmosphere. The Bloodborne Moon has a similar issue though it's implied it's more far away since clouds can actually cover it, but there's still the issue of clouds clearly making up the background behind it.

Unless there's some lore reason that explains that space are these clouds or the planet's atmosphere is actually massive, then this might greatly affect both verse's since we are assuming both are the actual sizes of the cosmological objects they appear to be, but there's some rather blatant evidence to suggest they are actually within the atmosphere which wouldn't make sense if they are supposed to be the actual celestial bodies.

This thread is more so to discuss if this actually invalidates the current ratings we have for both verses. Please try to keep it civil.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Im already working on a massive revision for Bloodborne but to put it simply, the moon itself was pulled extremely close to the Earth by Mergo, and at the point in the game that the screenshot in question is taken from, space and reality are heavily warped by the influence of the Great Ones due to Rom's protective magic being removed from Yharnam, hence the funky appearance of the moon in that scene

 

[Shmooply]

IIRC, the 5-A ratings for Bloodborne are pretty sus because the moon itself is stated to be an illusion or whatever, which is why people are trying to get the feat removed. That's all the input I have to give here though, so I'll take my leave.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

IIRC, the 5-A ratings for Bloodborne are pretty sus because the moon itself is stated to be an illusion or whatever, which is why people are trying to get the feat removed. That's all the input I have to give here though, so I'll take my leave.

The moon isnt the illusion, the illusion is what Rom cast over Yharnam to protect the city from the influence of the Great Ones. The moon is 100% real and is even directly stated as such numerous times throughout the game and lore

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I will also note that while yes, clouds can appear to be behind the Sun or Moon in real life, it is due to a phenomenon that specifically pertains to thin layers of clouds. I'm not a meteorologist or a cloud enthusiast but these clouds both don't seem thin to me.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Also, while Mergo did pull the Moon closer to earth allegedly, after Vicar and right before the fight with Rom in the lake we can still see the Moon with clouds clearly behind it. This is before Mergo allegedly does the feat iirc

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also, while Rom did pull the Moon closer to earth allegedly, after Vicar and right before the fight with Rom in the lake we can still see the Moon with clouds clearly behind it.

Again, this isnt what happened. Rom did not move the moon at all. The moon only moves after Rom dies because Rom's spell that was protecting Yharnam was broken

Also that scan isnt from post-Rom's death, that is just the normal night cycle of th game

 

[Foxthefox1000]

It's before you fight Rom and Mergo does anything at all. And I corrected my post as I was falsely remembering events. But we see that the Moon there still has clouds behind it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Same thing with the Moon Presence

Bloodborne: Recalc of The Moon Presence

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Are you implying there is a difference between the Blood Moon and the regular Moon? I always thought both were one in the same but after Rom's illusion is gone we get to see the Moon for what it is.

Because if they ARE one in the same the reason I posted the nighttime screenshot is because it's still notably within the atmosphere, at a point where Mergo hasn't moved it at all.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They are the same yes, the 'regular moon' is still the Blood Moon, just with Rom's magic veiling it and dampening its influence on Yharnam

Also no, its not, the shot of the moon you posted doesnt show it being within the atmosphere at all, its just up in the sky and you even see foregound clouds moving over the front of it.

Like i said though, there is already an upcoming CRT that is going to tackle all of this and clarify it in excruciating detail so it doesnt become an issue again, but put simply the moon in Bloodborne is inarguably real and the only illusion involved in the whole thing is Rom's illusion that was used to dampen the Blood Moon's influence on Yharnam

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Uh, no, you can clearly see clouds in the background. Maybe turn the brightness up or something. I can even check in-game right now.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

In either case what about the Sun? All we've talked about is the Moon so far

 

[WeeklyBattles]

As for the dark souls stuff i would message Bambu and Ovens about it as they know more about that than me but youre probably going to get a few page long essay as to why the sun is also real

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Uh, no, you can clearly see clouds in the background. Maybe turn the brightness up or something. I can even check in-game right now.

Where? Which clouds in that shot are depicted as being behind the moon? Because you can even see that all of the clouds on-screen there are backlit by the lightsource of the moon

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm pretty sure is just a design thing. You see the real sun in DS, DS2, and Ringed City and they're all behind clouds. It just looks better if clouds aren't obstructing the thing some background modellers took hours to make.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I dunno.

Tbe concept art for 3, the fact that the dark sun is a big lore aspect of three and it's clearly in front of thick clouds, and the fact the Sun can be seen in front of clouds again when you talk to Solaire lead me to believe this is intentional and consistent

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Screencaps and a gif again showing off the sun in DS1 and the concept art still having it in front

Also if we're gonna argue "design thing" we should look at From's library to see if this is consistent. And I can already tell you it's not. Sekiro and Elden Ring both have accurate depictions.

 

[Abstractions]

I don't find the argument against the sun to be rather substantial, honestly. There's something clearly abnormal happening with the sun and if previous iterations didn't have this supposed size problem I think you're being a bit nitpicky.

I believe Weekly handled the Bloodborne arguments.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I literally provided the previous version of the Sun in Dark Souls 1 in the post before your reply.

There's also Solaire's own words of finding his own Sun.

And I don't see how abnormalities confirm the Sun is accurate to it's real world counterpart. If anything that goes against it?

And again clouds still are behind the moon in Bloodborne before Mergo does anything.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Chariot pointed out that clouds clip behind the Erdtree in Elden Ring. It's just a design imperfection. Hardware/software limitations are not indicative of any substantial lore changes, and I think you're just looking too hard into it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I literally provided the previous version of the Sun in Dark Souls 1 in the post before your reply.

There's also Solaire's own words of finding his own Sun.

And I don't see how abnormalities confirm the Sun is accurate to it's real world counterpart. If anything that goes against it?

And again clouds still are behind the moon in Bloodborne before Mergo does anything.

My brother in christ, look at the sun in the Ringed City and tell me it is in front of the clouds. It's the same game and same lore. It's literally just a design error.

Also you're missing the context behind Solaire's own sun. He doesn't think/know the sun is a celestial body. It's supposed to be cute and endearing. The whole character of Solaire falls apart the moment you believe he actually intended to have his own miniature sun. It's a statement that's not meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

If it's a limitation of the game then why did the concept art also have it in front of clouds and such?

 

[Foxthefox1000]

My brother in christ, look at the sun in the Ringed City and tell me it is in front of the clouds. It's the same game and same lore. It's literally just a design error.

Also you're missing the context behind Solaire's own sun. He doesn't think/know the sun is a celestial body. It's supposed to be cute and endearing. The whole character of Solaire falls apart the moment you believe he actually intended to have his own miniature sun. It's a statement that's not meant to be taken seriously.

Clouds being in front of it on a few occasions doesn't detract from the fact they have been behind it more consistently. It can have both but still be in the atmosphere. And yes I am well aware what constitutes as game limitations but I can't be sure this is.

I'm not so sure it's a design error personally. But if that's how you guys feel, sure.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

In a setting where the sun is regarded as highly as the gods themselves, does it not make artistic sense to draw concept art emphasising the magnificence of the sun? Plus it's concept art. It's not indicative of the final product, especially in a game where stuff is intentionally removed from it because the vision changed.

Also I don't know how you can possibly say the sun is in front of the clouds when the lens flare in DS made it impossible to even look at it clearly.

 

[Chariot190]

Chariot pointed out that clouds clip behind the Erdtree in Elden Ring. It's just a design imperfection. Hardware/software limitations are not indicative of any substantial lore changes, and I think you're just looking too hard into it.

Hey it's me.

Also, it was one of the two moons, Ranni's I think, clipping into the branches of the the Erdtree, and even clipping in front of it, only ever happened twice (Normally it's depicted behind them. Second time was me spending like 40m trying to replicate it at that) so thinking it was just a **** up and not intentional tho.

 

[Chritin]

So like, I was busy looking at the reddit for Bloodborne and there was a comment in a post that intrigued me. Let me show you two specific images that have some potential issues and implications for both franchises.



As you can see here, we have pictures of the famous Dark Souls 3 Sun and the Moon from Bloodborne. Now what is the issue here, you ask?

Look carefully at the backgrounds of both of these. The one is a gif in-game so you can literally see there there is a movement of clouds BEHIND the sun. Anyone can tell you this is NOT how actual cosmological objects work within atmospheres. Clouds should logically cover these bodies that aren't within the atmosphere. The Bloodborne Moon has a similar issue though it's implied it's more far away since clouds can actually cover it, but there's still the issue of clouds clearly making up the background behind it.

Unless there's some lore reason that explains that space are these clouds or the planet's atmosphere is actually massive, then this might greatly affect both verse's since we are assuming both are the actual sizes of the cosmological objects they appear to be, but there's some rather blatant evidence to suggest they are actually within the atmosphere which wouldn't make sense if they are supposed to be the actual celestial bodies.

This thread is more so to discuss if this actually invalidates the current ratings we have for both verses. Please try to keep it civil.

I'm planning on writing up a complete revision on what I think of Bloodborne feats and what should be changed, what evidence should be added, etc. Basically, though, I'm pretty sure it is possible to argue that this is simply something that has to do with the Skybox of the game rather than anything lore related. It is possible to argue that things such as the paleblood moon being pulled in, or even the moon in the hunter's dream are close enough due to Moon Presence mumbo jumbo, but I don't think the intent is to say that these celestial objects are within the atmosphere.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm planning on writing up a complete revision on what I think of Bloodborne feats and what should be changed, what evidence should be added, etc. Basically, though, I'm pretty sure it is possible to argue that this is simply something that has to do with the Skybox of the game rather than anything lore related. It is possible to argue that things such as the paleblood moon being pulled in, or even the moon in the hunter's dream are close enough due to Moon Presence mumbo jumbo, but I don't think the intent is to say that these celestial objects are within the atmosphere.

Shoot me a message on my wall, ive already done this exact thing

 

[Mr. Bambu]

IIRC, the 5-A ratings for Bloodborne are pretty sus because the moon itself is stated to be an illusion or whatever, which is why people are trying to get the feat removed. That's all the input I have to give here though, so I'll take my leave.

That's just a theory some people have, though. ChaosTheory on Fanverse has a whole thing talking about how the moon movement is most likely accurate.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As for the whole cloud thing, I just think it's a graphical thing tbh. I agree with Ovens for once, this doesn't really seem to be substantial evidence.