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Potential Aizen/Yhwach/Ichigo Downgrade

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@Sigurd

Chill dude. If the profiles weren't full of fuckery in the first place there would be no problem. I see an issue and I bring it up. Simple.
 
I am chill lol,what do the ****** up profiles have to do with me? I wasn't the one who created them nor do I manage them.Although we have been trying to fix them but Soldier Blue is always missing and Antvasima wants his input on almost everything,so things are stagnant most of the time.
 
I get the feeling you didn't read my comment, I understand it was long, but you should in such a discussion.

High 6-A Scaling

Base Yhwach:
You bringing up calcs for Bankai Yamamoto indicates you did not read my comment as I said verbatim:

If you read through that thread, it was actually SoldierBlue, BurningFullFingers and Dark649 that stated Bankai Yamamoto, Dangai Ichigo and Hogyoku Aizen as all superior to Shikai Kenpachi. Which reinforces the High 6-A Base Yhwach as he is above Bankai Yamamoto.

Yamamoto was labeled High 6-A not through his own calc, but through Shikai Kenpachi. I layed it out clearly to not leave holes.

As for directly scaling to Gremmy, Yhwach sealed Gremmy away:

While the war with the Shinigami was in full swing, something else was going on within Silbern. There had previously been a cage; heavily sealed by a barrier set up by Yhwach. Now, however, the seal had been unraveled and the existence that should have been locked up was revealed. The body of Gremmy Thomeaux was standing in the passageway. Nobody approached him, nobody even dared to look at him; as if fearful that just by looking into his eyes, they would get killed.

Need I also add, Yhwach gave Gremmy his powers.

True Shikai Ichigo:
I am unsure why you're bringing up your discussion with another user to me, I'll copy paste what I wrote above, it really does seem as if you didn't read all of my comment: Simple scaling from Dangai Ichigo, profile could use some clean up though in my opinion. Took hits from a casual Post Mimihagi and SK Yhwach with Almighty off. Base Yhwach was casually High 6-A from the start of the arc. Yhwach got stronger after the first invasion due to the deaths of Quincy and Shinigami. Then Yhwach got further stronger during the second invasion with more deaths. Then Yhwach activated Almighty during his fight with Ichibei. Then Yhwach got even more stronger after absorbing Mimihagi. Then Yhwach got even more stronger after absorbing the Soul King. It's a lot of amps off a casual High 6-A from the start.

5-C Scaling

EoS Aizen / Muken Aizen:
Yhwach's casual AP at this point is 5-C, again I must copy paste: Hollow Merge True Shikai is 5-C and could hurt Post Mimihagi and SK Yhwach with Almighty off. A stronger and more durable Hollow Merge True Bankai Ichigo was casually ****** by Post Mimihagi and SK Yhwach with Almighty on. EoS Aizen no-sold an attack from that same Yhwach that was greater than what he threw at Ichigo in his past two modes that are already 5-C.

Hollow Merge True Shikai Ichigo was 5-C when he fought Post Mimihagi and SK Yhwach with Almighty off due to making that Yhwach bleed. That Yhwach was 5-C. Then Ichigo gets stronger as he enters Hollow Merge True Bankai which is higher than 5-C by an amount we have yet to apply. Yhwach then turns on the Almighty and casually defeats this higher than 5-C Ichigo. Afterwards, Yhwach absorbs Gerard, Haschwalth and this Ichigo's powers. The Yhwach that fights Aizen is vastly superior to the Yhwach that casually defeated a higher than 5-C Ichigo. Yhwach was casually above 5-C before an ever larger amp.

Plus, Yhwach was more serious against Aizen even, as Sigurd shows, where Yhwach is using larger attacks against Aizen then against the 5-C Ichigo.
 
I have a calculation that throws Yama as Multi-Continental / Small Planet, but that's with quote from him to destroy the whole SS with his power, if they want to post then to evaluate.
 
I don't understand, are you asking why shikai ichigo is above shikai ken? As for aizen, his chair withstood the hado 90 that he used, which was stated to be stronger than the one he used in FKT, yhwach's attack destroyed that chair yet couldn't damage aizen. Aizen also said he could shoot down the SK palace from siereitei, basically undoing yhwachs 5-C feat.
 
> Aizen also said he could shoot down the SK palace from siereitei, basically undoing yhwachs 5-C feat.

That was before Yhwach's 5-C feat, it has nothing to do with it and wouldn't necessarily be on that level.
 
@TFO

1.) Still false. We see that the whole time Ichigo grabbed his hand the attack was still in effect and Yhwach's Reiatsu was still surrounding his arm. This means that Yhwach was mid-attack and Ichigo stopped him. We even see Yhwach trying to put pressure in his arm soon after. To say "Nah he just grabbed him and stood there" is ignoring the scan for the sake of an argument.

2.) No. I'm not assuming it. We're given several statements that Yhwach is the strongest one from being the only one capable of stealing Yamamoto's Bankai (Which means Gremmy and Gerard can't) to Stealing Jugram's, Gerard's and Ichigo's power. To say Gerard is stronger(which is ironically out of no implication, context, or proof) is false.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I still agree the most with The Final Order. The scan of Ichigo drawing blood from Yhwach is more of a case of a not entirely solid character having lower durability.
Click to expand...
Huh? Yhwach no sold all his other attacks.Should I also mention Ichigo is amped with Yhwach's reiatsu as well in order to enter his hollow form in order to use that attack? This is a very deep cut so you can't randomly say "lower durability" especially when i've seen more ridiculous jusifications from profiles.

0676-006
 
Before or after the feat doesn't matter, I'm just using that as a comparison to say aizen's range is comparable to yhwach. Ichigo cut through yhwachs reiatsu to draw blood, meaning he was comparable to yhwach.
 
Just to understand the topic here, are we saying EoS shikai ichigo is unable to block a one-handed swing from patched shikai ken?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I still agree the most with The Final Order. The scan of Ichigo drawing blood from Yhwach is more of a case of a not entirely solid character having lower durability.
Click to expand...
swords negate dura
 
@IMade @HST @Sigurd

I'll get back to you guys on this thread tomorrow when I go to the Computer Lab at my school. I can type faster and do more than simply trying on my phone.
 
Huh? Yhwach no sold all his other attacks.Should I also mention Ichigo is amped with Yhwach's reiatsu as well in order to enter his hollow form in order to use that attack? This is a very deep cut so you can't randomly say "lower durability" especially when i've seen more ridiculous jusifications from profiles.

0676-006
 
Wasnt able to get to this yet but anywho im neutral when it comes to this.

I won't say anymore until Imade, the OP, etc. are ready to talk about this again with more time. I can also wait.
 
So, I'm here at school, but I just don't have the energy to continue this debate. I'd like to get Soldier Blues opinion before anything else (But I already know which way he's going to lean, so....)

  • Sufficet to say, I don't agree with Ichigo scaling to Yhwach. @HST, me and you disagree about how the feat looks and should be taken, that's fine, but this gridlock isn't going to change I can see.
  • @Sigurd, I disagree with Aizen scaling to 5-C as I believe based on everything we've seen, he has no feats of it like Hollow Merged and Bankai. Yhwach was Casual and showed no effort nor stated anything. This in my eyes makes it unquantifiable and thus Aizen shouldn't scale to 5-C, but you disagree as, like above with HST, we view things differently and have different believes on the subject. Which is fair, it's just we're going to be stuck in a gridlock.
___________________________________________________________________________

@IMade, there are a few things I do want to say.

YAMAMOTO'S BANKAI:

  • I went back and Read some stuff in the Manga and I agree that Yamamoto's Bankai scales to High 6-A for defeating Yhwach in the past with it. The Reasoning has to be fixed. As stated in the Novel, Yhwach can defeat Gremmy. Yhwach has even been stated to have sealed him away. Base Yhwach is undoubtably High 6-A in Base for that and Yama's Bankai scales from that.
  • Though Ryod and Hashwalth should not scale to High 6-A for not being turned to ash by ZnT: West. The calc above that I brought proves that the Heat Rated from the core of the sun would only yield MCB+ Energy Levels per second, not High 6-A Energy Levels and Nothing Suggests that they are High 6-A otherwise as they are only scaling to it through ZnT: West which, again, based on Calcs would not Radiate High 6-A Energy. And note they did not directly tank the Reiatsu of ZnT: West as they can't touch it. They only tanked the heat Radiated from it, which at least based on the context of the Manga can be said to be "At Least 7-A" since it's implied Haschwalth can take Shunsui.
MORE ON YHWACH:

  • The language such as "Far above" or "At least" is what needs to be taken off of Yhwach's profile. For starters, to have an at least rating it states this on the Attack Potency Page: "Should be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate." Unfortunately, High 6-A isn't the lower cap of Base Yhwach's power. Nothing in the Manga suggests this. All we know is he is > Gremmy who is around Kenpachi's level, to an unknown degree and certainly nothing suggests he's "Far Above" Gremmy and Kenpachi in Base, just that he is above them.
TRUE SHIKAI ICHIGO STUFF:

  • As for True Shikai Ichigo, for starters the "Casual" terminology is being tossed around here when nothing suggest's Yhwach in Base was "Casually" High 6-A to begin with. His only "casual" feat in base that is verafiable is 7-A for One Shotting Yamamoto. I have already voiced my opinions on True Shikai Ichigo Scaling to High 6-A above in my debate with @HST and i'm not touching again because as stated, I don't have the energy for this to drag on.
AIZEN SCAILING (I really need to figure out how you do that stuff with the structure of thour posts)

  • I agreed that Hollow-Merged and Bakai Ichigo are 5-C...that wasn't caled into Question. Nor was Yhwach's 5-C rating (The reason I'm not saying "Casual" on it at times is because we don't see if it's casual or not for Yhwach unless I missed something. He just changes the palace. when Shunsui and Co arrives. The feat is On Panel, but Yhwach is not, so you can't really say it was "casual" but I digress) called into question. Again, "Casual" is being tossed around here with nothing backing it up...
  • I've seen Sigurd's "Proof" and what he's saying, but all he's shown is Yhwach Casual AoE with Yhwach still being Casual. Yhwach was 5-C when he casually stomped True Shikai Ichigo, whom is not 5-C. What I'm saying in regards to this is that Yhwach, despite gaining Ichigo's powers, has AP that ranges to where ever Shikai Ichigo is going to be chucked at to 5-C. Showing me a scan of Yhwach's AoE and Claiming he took Aizen more serious (when nothing suggests as such) doesn't make up for his casual demeanor which is what calls Aizen scaling to 5-C into question.
Like seriously, Yhwach Absorbing SK and Mimihagi = 5-C (As he has a feat of such). SK Yhwach absorbing Ichigo's Powers = Stronger than before, but that doesn't null his previous casual AP feats.

From what I am seeing, Aizen is scaling is like this:

  • SK Yhwach has "Casual" 5-C AP
  • Aizen tanks a casual attack from SK Yhwach
  • SK Yhwach took Aizen more seriously than TSI (No proof of this btw and is contrary to what's portrayed)
And thus, Aizen is scaled to 5-C, ignoring the fact that SK Yhwach was 5-C before Absorbing Ichigo's powers and was shocasing Casual High 6-A AP (Assuming TSI get's placed at High 6-A). Yhwach Showcased Casual High 6-A AP to 5-C feats. High 6-A to 5-C is a range in the hundreds if not thousands and Shikai Kenny's feat is still baseline High 6-A compared to even the likes of DCEU Superman or KCSM Naruto Pre-Toneri revisions. You can't just place Aizen there without proof. Hell, even if Aizen was 25x Stonger than TSI, that's still only High 6-A, not even "At least".
 
@FTO

> .The calc above that I brought proves that the Heat Rated from the core of the sun would only yield MCB+ Energy Levels per second.

What?am sorry that calc is laughably wrong,its not wrong per say, its just that you are misinterpreting it, if something, even as tiny as a needle is heated to the core of the sun tempratures(somehow,cuz it's not possible,it will probably turn to plasma)and stays at that temperature and it's allowed to radiate that heat for even a second it could release energies way more than city blocks level and would be even more devastating overtime


That calc is the maximum amount of heat energy a "human body" can take or contain(if it's still somehow in one piece) when it is exposed to the temperature of the core of sun not the energy levels of the sun itself.it uses the specific heat capacity of the human body to make the calc....Look it's like slamming a sledge hammer on an egg and of course it breaks, and then you claim it was the whole force/energy of the sledge hammer that was needed to break the egg.when you could actually still break the egg by flexing your fingertips, which is 1/100 of the hammer's force.


The sun releases energy at a mass―energy conversion rate of 4.26 million metric tons per second, which produces the equivalent of 38,460 septillion watts (3.846├ù1026 W) per second. To put that in perspective, this is the equivalent of about 91920000000 megatons of TNT per second.


That is around 91 petatons,which as you guessed,it's High 6-A . So yamamoto's bankai scaling is actually very accurate and that calc debunks nothing,
 
I'll get back to this when I'm back from my vacation, glad to see there is some understanding though, will back the follow ups easier.
 
Are we arguing AoE as proof of Potency now? Is that what we're doing...ƒñö

Yhwach is no more casual in this scene as when stomping True Shikai Ichigo.

As for Aizen This isn't Aoe,if it was an ability like Trafalgar's Law room or Askin's death deal,the Aoe=/=power argument would have stick but as you could see against Ichigo,the darkness is a physical attack and there is no reason it should not be treated as an explosion of power.moreover Aizen was literally still on a chair, there was no need for AOE.so the fact that it is a representation of power is more logical

Now then,he never used this much power on either shikai ichigo or hollow merged ichigo, yet ichigo was getting rekt and damaged,but now we see Aizen smiling and catwalks out of that attack.so Aizen==hollow merged ichigo at least who is 5-C.ergo Aizen 5-C
 
if you downgrade their powers even more, than all the top tier naruto characters should be downgraded to continent, small moon level since none of those characters have ever shown planet busting features.
 
Selenebean3000 said:
if you downgrade their powers even more, than all the top tier naruto characters should be downgraded to continent, small moon level since none of those characters have ever shown planet busting features.
Click to expand...
lmfao
 
Selenebean3000 said:
if you downgrade their powers even more, than all the top tier naruto characters should be downgraded to continent, small moon level since none of those characters have ever shown planet busting features.
Click to expand...
looooool
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
This is utter pseudo-science and not at all how much energy a human-sized body emitting the heat of the sun would emit. The result for that is only Low 6-B. The sun as a whole produces petatons of energy every second. A human absolutely cannot reproduce that through mimicking the heat alone.
Click to expand...
To get this thread back on track, lol, while Yama's Bankai can scale to High 6-A in AP, the heat his body radiates is far from High 6-A. If what Matt says here is True about the Low 6-B stuff, Haschwalth and Ryod should scale to Low 6-B with Blut Vene.
 
Tanking the heat of the Sun's core is only 8-A iirc.
 
Royd doesn't copy power though, just memories, personality and appearance. He should be High 6-A because he had the power to make Yama think he was Yhwach.
 
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