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Again, that's Rebirth, not Post-Crisis.
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Just pick one. Don't work on both at the same time.
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Oh I got no notification from this thread, weird.
Honestly this thread should straight up be closed because OP by his own admission says it'll take him weeks to even get shit in place to make this revision anything more than pure concept. We're arguing against a person who is just breaking the verse with no plans to fix it or suggest alternatives thus far.
I like the thinking that leads to this kind of suggestion. Can you not make your own prep for this thread a living hell?
Honestly this thread should straight up be closed because OP by his own admission says it'll take him weeks to even get shit in place to make this revision anything more than pure concept. We're arguing against a person who is just breaking the verse with no plans to fix it or suggest alternatives thus far.
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Anyways honestly, I am closing this, it's a circus. Prepare better next time, rather than just reading off a blog and posting it on the wiki with zero further research or noting consequences.
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@Firestorm808
Are there any revisions that you think that we need to do based on what was said earlier in this thread?
Are there any revisions that you think that we need to do based on what was said earlier in this thread?
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Just removing the Void Hound feat as 4-B.
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also the pushing solar system feat should be removed fanon debunked it
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Pushing the solar system was calculated to actually just barely be above baseline Star level since mathematically adding the GBE of every object in the solar system gets you just a hair above star level. But yeah, I'm fine with Void Hound feat removal.
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Not sure if he fully debunked it, I’ll check in our DM’s some later time.
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Fan and I are still planning out the various PC keys.
Post-Crisis | Post-Parasite | Post-Mongul Training | Post-Infinite Crisis
Post-Crisis | Post-Parasite | Post-Mongul Training | Post-Infinite Crisis
Oliver_de_jesus
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What DC Stage is this?(sorry for the derailment)
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On the topic of the the era-split, where does him getting amped post-Infinite Crisis come from? I know the scans for post-DoS and post-Mongul Training, but I'm not aware of post-IC. I checked "Up, Up and Away" and a few other stories from around that time, but I still haven't anything that implies it.
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Superman got overcharged for a while after absorbing Eradicator, but he got stabilized by Parasite later on.
- Superman Vol 2 #82, October 1993
- After absorbing Eradicator, Superman defeats Cyborg Superman and notes he is at full power.
Post-Eradicator
- Superman: The Man of Steel Vol 1 #29, January 1994
- Superman moved fast enough almost to negate the effects of the temporal modulation field's Time Slow
- Superman: The Man of Steel Vol 1 #30, February 1994
- Lobo shattered a planet with a blast from his weapons.
- Lobo states twice that Superman is stronger than last time.
- Superman agrees twice that his powers are increasing.
- Superman doesn't need to breathe oxygen anymore.
- Superman overcame the inertia of a ship the size of a small moon.
- They both survive a Force-Twelve Disintegration Beam
- Action Comics Vol 1 #696, February 1994
- Superman feels stronger than ever.
- Superman doesn't need oxygen anymore.
- His heat vision intensity increased.
- Superman's strength has increased.
- Superman's cellular structure is enhanced compared to other Kryptonians.
- Superman fights The Champion
- The Champion could not stop an asteroid that caused global cataclysms.
- Superman flew into an existing wormhole to Hyperspace, which is a realm that exists beyond space and time.
- Doomsday re-appears.
- Superman: The Man of Steel Vol 1 #31, March 1994
- Superman says that he is stronger after absorbing the energy from Eradicator.
- 5-B | Casually destroys a meteor that would demolish the earth
- Adventures of Superman Vol 1 #511, April 1994
- Superman mentions his increased powers.
- According to Professor Hamilton, Superman is absorbing solar radiation and other energies much faster than ever before due to being irradiated by what he calls Kryptonite X. The Eradicator incident that recharged his powers foreshadowed his power increase. He says there is no physical way for Superman to expend his energy fast enough. His powers will continue increasing until his body cannot contain them.
- Action Comics Vol 1 #698, April 1994
- Superman fights Parasite.
- Parasite leeched out the excess energy Superman absorbed.
- Action Comics Vol 1 #699, May 1994
- According to Professor Emil, Superman is in number one shape. There's not a trace left of the exotic energies he detected in him the other day.
Oliver_de_jesus
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Thanks
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...if we're doing this era split crap for DC, I want their power scaling rules split from Marvel's, y'all clearly don't care for extending verse standards so why even bother pretending.
And just FYI we have already made it really clear in the past that erasplit is a completely arbitrary distinction made only to downplay DC, and presuming shit a writer will never care about ONCE, alongside just creating feat pockets where what once were outliers, can seem very plausible.
It's like that one Iron Man revision where the user cherrypicked 7 5-A armors to put into Iron Man's file while not listing anything weaker, except done to lower stats considerably, hell erasplit is worse because at least Iron Man armors HAVE in-canon power creep stated
And just FYI we have already made it really clear in the past that erasplit is a completely arbitrary distinction made only to downplay DC, and presuming shit a writer will never care about ONCE, alongside just creating feat pockets where what once were outliers, can seem very plausible.
It's like that one Iron Man revision where the user cherrypicked 7 5-A armors to put into Iron Man's file while not listing anything weaker, except done to lower stats considerably, hell erasplit is worse because at least Iron Man armors HAVE in-canon power creep stated
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Well, creating that many keys may be excessive, but at the start of the Post-Crisis era, Superman could explicitly be knocked out by regular nuclear explosions (7-C to 7-B or so), whereas he was at least of a High 4-C level towards the end of this era, so this seems noteworthy enough to point out at least.
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But that's moreso the writers finally getting in grips with how to write Superman, and I don't think our files should be judged by a meta-analysis, this is a poor trend to go by that'll just make them feel unfairly treatedm
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In-continuity powerups weren't extended to every single character in the cast, in my opinion it's abit silly to consider them
I've made my point, and at the end of the day I guess I will go by what other staff members feel correct, it's all semantics based distinctions :v
Rest assured I repeat, if these do go through, I'm not going to support these being extended towards Marvel at all, and will push for them to have their powerscaling standards be unassociated with DC Comics.
Current system employed by Marvel makes the ratings completely correct by most standards, and I will guarantee if the same standards are applied to DC it will fix a mass majority of problems, but I am feeling erasplit is quite inferior and presumptuous compared to it, and basically solves nothing. We can't do both unless we want DC files to be an absolute clutter of keys and whatnot
I've made my point, and at the end of the day I guess I will go by what other staff members feel correct, it's all semantics based distinctions :v
Rest assured I repeat, if these do go through, I'm not going to support these being extended towards Marvel at all, and will push for them to have their powerscaling standards be unassociated with DC Comics.
Current system employed by Marvel makes the ratings completely correct by most standards, and I will guarantee if the same standards are applied to DC it will fix a mass majority of problems, but I am feeling erasplit is quite inferior and presumptuous compared to it, and basically solves nothing. We can't do both unless we want DC files to be an absolute clutter of keys and whatnot
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So assuming we do go the era-split route (since that's still contentious and only really applies to one character), is the Parasite era just going to be a temporary amp not accounted for on his profile? Also, was Hunter/Prey during the parasite-era? It came out around the same time and has statements of Superman getting stronger, so I'm curious. Lastly, I still would like to see the evidence for him getting an amp post-Infinite Crisis. I know there are scans saying his mind and senses are more precise, but nothing for him getting an actual power amp.
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Quick question, was Superman amped in his final arc of Post Crisis? (The one where he fought against amped doomsday alongside Supergirl and Superboy)
I didn't read a lot of post-Johns era of Superman but did hear that he was much more powerful near the end than he was around infinite crisis and final crisis.
I didn't read a lot of post-Johns era of Superman but did hear that he was much more powerful near the end than he was around infinite crisis and final crisis.
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Are. You saying that Supes should have a 7-B key
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Honestly, it doesn't seem too bad. He wasn't always 4B, so showing his gradual increase in power doesn't sound too bad. The wiki does this to Goku, Naruto, and tons of other characters. So, I think it will be pretty neat.
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Yes, this was my thought as well, given that these were in-continuity power-ups, but given that other characters who did not go through power-up were somehow largely comparable regardless of era, it may turn too messy, as others have mentioned.
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The Mongul training is heavily exaggerated. Mongul has never been thousands to millions of times stronger than Superman to rate them vastly different tiers. And the training was only off handily mentioned in a flashback that lasted 2 pages and wasn't really spoken of again. Treating it as a Dragonball power up is not really accurate.
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Honestly, DC powerscaling standards actually are different from Marvel's. DC has a bunch of continuity reboots that Marvel lacks. Also the term "Outlier" is wrongly used for a bunch of DC Heralds. It's better said that like 99% of stuff exceeding Tier 4 are not feats to begin with and are just metaphoric shenanigans, avatar fights, chain reactions, borderline anti-feats, group effort that required buttloads of outside help, and more. Marvel is actually a different story as plenty of those characters actually did their cosmic feats with their sheer physical strength; but it's just the policy on outliers works.
The Marvel/DC scaling page is actually more accurate at describing Marvel Comics tbh. But for DC's case, it's actually a lore more details beyond the usages of "Outliers" or "PIS". Which are not to be confused with Hyperboles, Plot Armor feats, Krytonite Architype usage, infinitely weaker avatar scaling loops, ect.
The Marvel/DC scaling page is actually more accurate at describing Marvel Comics tbh. But for DC's case, it's actually a lore more details beyond the usages of "Outliers" or "PIS". Which are not to be confused with Hyperboles, Plot Armor feats, Krytonite Architype usage, infinitely weaker avatar scaling loops, ect.
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Yeah the era-split arguments are really starting to look sketchy.
In Superman #152, his training is explained more as him no longer holding back subconsciously than a power amp. Although, even this is contradicted later on in JLA: Classified #32. The only evidence I've really seen for it being a power boost is Darkseid's saying he's "grown strong" in Superman/Darkseid: Apokolips Now. However, this could just refer to fighting a Superman actually using his full power, and he had already fought a post-Mongul Training Superman in Adventures of Superman #595, so it wouldn't be in reference to his training anyways.
With most of the "post-DoS" scans actually referring to a temporary amp and the "post-Infinite Crisis" scans still not being provided, as well as the previous problem with characters that didn't get amps being comparable to Superman throughout the eras, I'll be leaning towards disagreeing for the moment. Though Firestorm should still get a chance to explain his stance, since he brought it up in the first place.
In Superman #152, his training is explained more as him no longer holding back subconsciously than a power amp. Although, even this is contradicted later on in JLA: Classified #32. The only evidence I've really seen for it being a power boost is Darkseid's saying he's "grown strong" in Superman/Darkseid: Apokolips Now. However, this could just refer to fighting a Superman actually using his full power, and he had already fought a post-Mongul Training Superman in Adventures of Superman #595, so it wouldn't be in reference to his training anyways.
With most of the "post-DoS" scans actually referring to a temporary amp and the "post-Infinite Crisis" scans still not being provided, as well as the previous problem with characters that didn't get amps being comparable to Superman throughout the eras, I'll be leaning towards disagreeing for the moment. Though Firestorm should still get a chance to explain his stance, since he brought it up in the first place.
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Impress. It is her old username.
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Honestly I don't mind this, Marvel actually has verse specific mechanics now that need listing on pages, not to mention there's gonna be more. So far we're doing it on the verse page, which can be prone to vandalism
Moving DC to a different powerscaling rules-page may actually be beneficial for both in the long run.
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I think that the rules apply well to both franchises, even if it may hit Marvel more in the bullseye. We genuinely need them as a safeguard to avoid senseless chain-scaling, among other things.
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