- 920
- 257
Alright fine but like Superman being Building is just no like his high feats are clear
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
- Status
- 9,261
- 3,388
the guy is clearly ******* joking
- 920
- 257
Ohhhhhhh
- 42,607
- 36,890
It... was kind of obvious...
- 1,263
- 394
Let's say I try to upgrade batman to low 1-c what are the chances it will be rejected 
- 42,607
- 36,890
20% for every time someone has tried to upgrade Superman to Low 2-C with this setupLet's say I try to upgrade batman to low 1-c what are the chances it will be rejected
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,549
- 17,713
With preparation(Not scale to JL), I think it would be possible considering how ridiculous Batman isLet's say I try to upgrade batman to low 1-c what are the chances it will be rejected
- 11,807
- 7,371
bruh
Firstly, Superman was explicitly the character exempt from the discussion.
Secondly, 7-A is Mountain level, 8-C is Building level
Thirdly, I literally said "unless better feats are found"
...mate if you wanna argue with your eyes closed please do it in Fun and Games or even Versus Discussion, CRTs aren't a place for you to BS at
- 1,404
- 542
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #90
Exactly why I think each character should have key's to their own respective feats and scale to superman when necessary. E.g for all we know his the most powerful among the entire justice league.
By prep time 50/50. On a norms 100% rejection.Let's say I try to upgrade batman to low 1-c what are the chances it will be rejected
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #91
I also once proposed for marvel and DC heralds since their teir's fluctuate,should have a varies key. Possibly till when they get a standard teir.
We have e.g
4-B and varies.
And maybe something like(depends on the story) but mostly varies or higher .
Besides,characters like hulk are meant to be low 2-C from death battle. Not that this wiki will accept it tho.
We have e.g
4-B and varies.
And maybe something like(depends on the story) but mostly varies or higher .
- 11,807
- 7,371
Make the thread on Marvel, we'll see how much shit you can force through, k? Otherwise keep irrelevant snide remarks to yourself, this is a DC thread, keep it a DC thread.
- 20,529
- 17,432
Its directly stated that the Phantom Zone is tied to Superman (or at least that zone was). Meaning any physical damage he received is transferred into the zone itself.
Generally speaking though using the Phantom Zone to upgrade Superman isn't really valid. The linked blog also makes rather extreme assumptions and random energy placements to get a rating.
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #95
Please name of the comic?
And I don't get what superman means by this world he created?
I'm sure superman doesn't have the ability to create any world especially one that's a low 1-C structure.
And it's stated to be linked to them(please elaborate how) or send me the comic issue let me read it.
And its also stated zod became part of its fabric.
- 20,529
- 17,432
Superman (1987) #215
He molded the Phantom Zone, or at least a segment of it, into a paradise area to save people. When Zod and him fought they ended up destroying this area, but it was not because of collateral damage on their part. It's what DDM was asking about, since in a previous thread someone was attempting to use the fight to upgrade Superman.
Though in the Rebirth thing its just Superman getting angry. Nothing really indicates that he would've just blasted the zone into nothingness.
Him shaping it was with Kryptonian tech from the Fortress. Not like he just thought up a zone, but what he made was ultimately connected to him.
As for the thread, no. We're not upgrading Superman to Low 2-C.
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #97
So a character states he can make a low 1-C structure seize to exist when he puts his mind into it and you say it isn't a valid reason for an upgrade?lol.
I guess I'm gonna see a lot of things today.
- 20,529
- 17,432
Yes, because doing something with technology doesn't mean they physically scale to it. Oppenheimer isn't 7-B because he made the Hydrogen Bomb, Batman isn't 4-B physically because he made a suit that can harm Superman, and Reed Richards isn't Tier 1 because he can build a device that can contain Galactus or whatever.
If you mean his inner thoughts in the Rebirth comic, then there's just no evidence backing that he's actually capable of doing it and there's no evidence that him destroying it means he's just going to heat vision one shot the place into oblivion.
- 167,676
- 76,256
MikeBro, I keep giving you warnings. If you continue to strictly produce unproductive snide derailment in content revision threads, we will likely have to ban you, so you need to make a serious continuous effort to shape up.
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #100
Tanx
So not the entire plane that exists in the sphere of gods?
Superman isn't a fallible character that makes things up. We all know superman can as it's stated if he put's his head into it he can.
Yep he and Zod, you haven't explained why its connected to Zod before he merged with its fabric.
You should have just been straight forward with me from the beginning.
Superman himself stated it,that will a possibly.
- 167,676
- 76,256
Anyway, I agree with Qawsedf234. Thank you for helping out.
Also, Superman, Zod, and Rogol Zaar were going all out during their fights in the Phantom Zone with limited collateral damage. Destroying the Zone in its entirety via raw power seems like empty unproven hyperbole.
Also, Superman, Zod, and Rogol Zaar were going all out during their fights in the Phantom Zone with limited collateral damage. Destroying the Zone in its entirety via raw power seems like empty unproven hyperbole.
- 20,529
- 17,432
If Superman was capable of destroying a dimension.... we would have seen him at one point destroy a dimension. Inner thoughts during an arc dealing with his extreme anger in regards to someone murdering his entire race that leads to him freaking out is not solid evidence that he can just nuke part of the God Sphere.
Well, we're not doing it.
If we were then we wouldn't even stop at Low 2-C. We'd either go with High 1-B or some degree of 1-A because at that point there's no reason to not just only use the highest possible interpretations of everything.
- 16,139
- 10,667
I mean, being able to is not the same to DO the things, but yeah, iirc, this already was discussed before, if the wiki rejects there is it, people shouldnt insist in the same thing over and over again, it makes the things be toxic and derailed
- 11,807
- 7,371
@Qawsedf234 Aside from the Low 2-C stuff, can you verify the scans claiming Superman holds back immensely in most relevant scenarios?
This is an important aspect that has far reaching implications for the verse as a whole
This is an important aspect that has far reaching implications for the verse as a whole
- 20,529
- 17,432
Superman has held back on Emperor Joker. Unless he's in a very specific mindset like against Doomsday, Darkseid, or Imperiex he'll generally holdback.
- 16,139
- 10,667
About Holding Back, I don't think that Holding Back should grant a tier or something (unless the authors use holding back thing to make Superman tiers be far stronger if the plot need) but the point is, at best, Superman should have ''Tier ?, likely higher while serious or something
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #107
This is irrelevant.
A character who destroy e.g a multiverse must not always destroy one lmao. Their's a first and only time for everything.
Yep, I believe it we believe we can,superman isn't a fallible character and has done thing's even we thought he couldn't especially when he has his been shown his heat vision can affect the sphere of gods.
And you still haven't replied me on the case with doomsday clock.
Is this in the same issue?
- 20,529
- 17,432
Nope, it is super relevant when you're arguing for a character to become Low 1-C.
Superman has made outright incorrect conclusions and questionable moral choices before. Just because he thinks something doesn't automatically make it true, even if he is generally correct about his personal power.
There's no indication he was going to one shot the Phantom Zone with heat vision.
You never brought up Doomsday Clock in regards to me.
Its mentioned in the issue and brought up in the previous one.
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #109
And still damaged him(I didn't have scans of that so I didn't include it).
If I remember well superman states he holds black against darkseid, I've forgotten the comics. Don't know if imperiex but superman doesn't hold back against character like doomsday.
- 20,529
- 17,432
That's not a real feat. Random people damaged Emperor Joker as well. 5D imps in general have no solid durability, being as tough as they want to during the moment.
Flying through the Joker in this instance means very little. Especially when it was mostly just Joker messing around with Superman.
- 11,807
- 7,371
Mate unless the low 2-C shit gets accepted he won't be higher, he'll be damn near the sole 4-B for his verse section because fuckall scales to him according to this thread logic.
Also you can't have your cake and eat it too, either he's far weaker in both durability and attack potency, which we will list so as to not confuse, or he's not holding back. He'll get the restricted key in every scenario you propose, unless you're quitting the idea of him holding back in the first place.
- 16,139
- 10,667
Hey I never said nothing about a higher tier, why are u talking about it? I just said that 4-B, likely higher (due holding back) is a good idea
Wdym about this part?
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #113
How many characters have replicated teir 1 feats on more than 1 occasion?
Superman we know isn't a fallible character especially on matters like this and such a statement he did. He can make this dimension seize to exist if he puts his head into it.
I don't see any like hyperbole here especially as you stated superman isn't getting an upgrade.
No statement that says he can't. Especially as his vision isn't like any normal being.
It's in the OP but nvm,till another person shows up.
Tanx.
- 1,892
- 3,346
Wow that blog
Superman (Modern Age) Feats and Statistics
fatal-fiction.fandom.com
After reading this blog I think superman should be Low 2-C at peak.
You all can take your time and read everything. it's literally the best blog I've seen that explains the man of steel character well.
Some members want the scans of the blog to be posted here but the scans are much and I'm only going to be taking the most meaningful one's from the blog,some aren't even clear.
But here I go
I'm gonna start with the fact superman always holds back.
In 2002, during the Batman: Hush storyline, Superman is mind controlled by Kryptonite-laced Poison Ivy pheromones and fights Batman, who reveals that, even under Kryptonite influence, Superman's still holding back as much as he can. Even mind controlled, Superman still instinctively holds back.
Superman 2018 issue 5: superman when not holding back stated he can make the phantom zone seize to exist(the phantom zone exist in the sphere of gods)however he remembers his parents and stops,this will be low 1-C via boomtube amp.
Superman lifts book of infinite pages, final crisis: superman beyond
The issue states numerous times that the Book of Infinite Pages is indeed infinite, which means it has infinite mass. Superman and Captain Marvel from Earth-5 lift the book themselves before Captain Marvel cannot handle the strain of it anymore and the shock wave blasts him back and transforms him back into Billy Batson.
Superman was shown to be relatively unaffected by the weight of the book or the blast, since he's coaching Captain Marvel through the process the entire time and checks on Billy after the blast. Along with the fact that Superman has always had greater feats of strength than Captain Marvel in the past, this lends evidence to the fact that, while Captain Marvel was lifting a portion of the book, Superman was lifting the rest. Even if he wasn't, infinity divided by two is still infinity.
Ultraman Carries it.
The first argument that is typically made concerning this feat is that Superman and Captain Marvel fail to lift the book (evidenced by them being blasted back). However, they did lift it. The only reason they got blasted back is because Captain Marvel couldn't handle the strain (read the dialogue). Also, the Book of Infinite Pages is sentient.
Immediately after they are blasted back, Ultraman from Earth-3 lifts the book by himself and presents it to his master, saying that he read to the end of the book and "evil wins." Another argument made is that the Book of Infinite Pages cannot be infinite, since Ultraman read to the end of the book, which must mean that it's finite. However, we know this isn't the case.
Ultraman states that "evil wins" while talking about the Final Crisis event. However, evil doesn't win. Cosmic Armor Superman destroys the threat and later Superman destroys Darkseid's essence. Good wins. What Ultraman "read" was just a possible future in the infinite multitude of futures contained within the book. Again, we know he couldn't have possibly read the only ending to the book if he was wrong about it.
Lastly, for those who argue that Ultraman lifted the book, but Superman needed Captain Marvel's help, Ultraman is just an alternate version of Superman. Feats scale to both of them because Superman has overpowered and defeated Ultraman many times in the past, as seen below. Not to mention Ultraman is defeated in this same story too.
Superman survived the collision of new genesis and apocalypse
Superman vs tempus
Death of the new gods,superman could damage soul fire darkseid who is Atleast 1A. This is also a 1A feat for supes via boomtube amp but people will see it as outlier
2014's Trinity of Sin: Phantom Stranger #18
Superman can damage phantom stranger who is an equal to the spectre.
2015's New 52: Futures End Issue #44,
Superman survives a blast from and then punches a godlike version of Brainiac (known as Convergence Brainiac by fans) so hard that every version of Brainiac feels it across time. The punch also knocks him down.
However, it should be noted that every Brainiac felt it because they're all mentally connected through time and that this is technically only a possible future version of Superman set five years after the then New 52 continuity, which invalidates it as a credible feat of Superman's power.
However, the feat of punching and knocking down Convergence Brainiac is still impressive in the sense that Convergence Brainiac is at least a Low Multiverse level threat (see link above for evidence), as he had used a combination of his technology, the Vanishing Point, and Telos to render even beings like Pre-Crisis Superman and Zero Hour Parallax Hal Jordan useless by comparison.
Doomsday clock issue 7.
This isn't a feat at all so much as a question... can Superman destroy Doctor Manhattan?
The question comes from 2018's Doomsday Clock #7 where Doctor Manhattan reveals that he's seen the future a month from now (in comic book continuity) and he doesn't see anything at all after Superman charges toward him. He then asks the question:
"Does Superman destroy me? Or do I destroy everything?"
Doctor Manhattan is certainly a being capable of destroying everything, but that begs the question... does he also destroy himself? The sheer fact that Doctor Manhattan, a being known for his dismissing of absurdities in search of truth, is even considering the possibility that Superman can destroy him is interesting at the very least.
Thank you,am already tired of copy pasting from the blog,this are the one's i could pick from the blog.
Thank you.
talk about dedication
- 20,529
- 17,432
Ao has one hard feat and multiple statements from multiple different sources, Simon the Digger has multiple feats and statements of transcending a 10D+1 dimensional space, Darkseid has a Low 1-C feat from just falling down, and a decent chunk of Tier 1 characters characters have more than one feat or a scaling chain for that rating.
You're changing the goal posts because if Superman had the evidence for a Tier 1 rating we'd just give him a Tier 1 rating already. Which we do for versions that legitimately show such things.
- 16,139
- 10,667
Take ur time
- 3,759
- 1,615
- Thread starter
- #118
I will like to see scans of this.
Emperor joker durability is 3-A on this wiki.
You say it as if any random character can perform such feat.
Will reply your other messages later.
- 7,486
- 7,673
Regarding destroying a universe, a more prominent Post-Crisis Superman writer considers it a stretch.
- 842
- 256
One toei member on twitter also said that SSB goku cannot destroy the universe and the GODs might be universal and zeno is the only true universe buster.
Writer statements shouldn't always be taken as evidence to debunk something.
- Status
Similar threads
