Possibly immortality type 5 and 8 for All Fiction and Damage transferal for Bookmaker

[Gohanblanco217]

I don't know exactly about how immortality works but anyway Misogi and Medaka should possibly have :

*immortality type 5: are characters who aren't bound by the Consept of life and Death I guess, well it's not the case for Misogi but we know that he can erase the Consept of his own death via All Fiction so Idk if this counts.

* Immortality type 8: are characters who can revive themselves as long as a certain being, object, or even concept exists, I mean it's the same case for Misogi since as long as All Fiction exist Misogi won't die and would still be able to revive himself

* Damage transferal with bookmaker : when Misogi screw someone, not only their abilities would be sealed and their states would be brought down to his level but also all the Damage that Misogi took would be reflected back to the opponent..

*Healing :via All Fiction (well it's pretty much obvious I mean it's done via Causality erasure but it can treated as healing tho)

 

[QuasiYuri]

Immortality type 5 is a no. What he erases is the event of him dying, but he can still die.

Type 8 is kinda wrong? I mean it's true that Misogi resurrect by AF each time he die, but I'm not sure if it qualify. Although there's two stuff which could give type 8 and 9.

Nah, the damage he take isn't reflected.

People tought it was healing at the beginning, so should be fine.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Immortality type 5 is a no. What he erases is the event of him dying, but he can still die.

I mean he is doing that by erasing the Concept of his death from the Cause and effects also Misogi is bound by cause and effects, yet he has acausality type 4 with All Fiction so I don't see why the same shouldn't be applied to type 5 immortality

Type 8 is kinda wrong? I mean it's true that Misogi resurrect by AF each time he die, but I'm not sure if it qualify. Although there's two stuff which could give type 8 and 9.

I mean as long as an object exist a character can be revived which is the same for Misogi, no ?

Nah, the damage he take isn't reflected.

People tought it was healing at the beginning, so should be fine.

He literally said it by himself that Bookmaker transfer damage when it screws his opponent

 

[QuasiYuri]

If he erased his concept of death, he wouldn't be able to die at all after doing it once. By "I erased my death", it mean "I erased the event leading to my death".

Except that there's several scenarios where Book Maker would exist and not resurrect him. One of the most obvious would be if someone steal it from him. Also it's not really an "object" anyway.

Can you send a scan about this? I don't remember this at all.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

If he erased his concept of death, he wouldn't be able to die at all after doing it once. By "I erased my death", it mean "I erased the event leading to my death".

Yeah Fair point

Except that there's several scenarios where Book Maker would exist and not resurrect him. One of the most obvious would be if someone steal it from him. Also it's not really an "object" anyway.

What?? I'm talking about AF, as long as AF exists Misogi can still resurrect himself and no it doesn't need to be an Object, it could also be a Concept or anything else it's even stated in the immortality page

Can you send a scan about this? I don't remember this at all.

I literally send a link in the OP but wherever, here : https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSQkbkIdmv40rAQw0EMVVagLtyF_JUpvFhyEg&usqp=CAU

 

[QuasiYuri]

I just gave a case where AF wouldn't resurrect Kumagawa. If a character stole the power from him, it wouldn't resurrect him so it's just the power resurrecting its user and not a real type 8.

Didn't saw it, mb. I'm unsure about it for 2 reasons: Translations in others languages says something more akin to "you would become like me" (so it would be better if someone could check the jap version); and if it worked as damage transferal; then why Ajimu and anyone who experienced it were unharmed when Kumagawa was?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I just gave a case where AF wouldn't resurrect Kumagawa. If a character stole the power from him, it wouldn't resurrect him so it's just the power resurrecting its user and not a real type 8.

I thought you were talking about Bookmaker, sorry then from what I'm seeing in I don't think Immortality type 8 can be applied then.

Didn't saw it, mb. I'm unsure about it for 2 reasons: Translations in others languages says something more akin to "you would become like me" (so it would be better if someone could check the jap version)

Unfortunately I don't have the Japanese version, well we probably wait for more inputs

and if it worked as damage transferal; then why Ajimu and anyone who experienced it were unharmed when Kumagawa was?

When did this happen? I don't recall Kumagawa begin damaged at all when he used the screws on Ajimu or anyone else

 

[QuasiYuri]

He's damaged pretty much all the time; and he was hit several time by Mogura before using Book Maker on her.
But it's better to wait for inputs yeah, although I personally can't see it as more than a figure of speech.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

He's damaged pretty much all the time; and he was hit several time by Mogura before using Book Maker on her.
But it's better to wait for inputs yeah, although I personally can't see it as more than a figure of speech.

Can you give me a scan showing that Kumagawa didn't transfer any damage when using Bookmaker?

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Bump?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Just checked, Kumagawa healed for Mogura's case. I don't see where Kumagawa didn't transfer damage (since he didn't have damage here), although I fail to see where he did too (since the scene refers to how you become a minus)

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Bump

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Sorry for my ignorance, but, is Inmortality type 9 more effective than Inmortality type 8?.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Not necessary. Type 9 just mean you have a (true) self elsewhere which has to be killed for you to truly die while type 8 mean you're reliant on something which has to be destroyed for you to truly die.

 

[Agnaa]

Type 5: No. That's not what type 5 is.

Type 8: No, in this case it's just type 4.

Damage Transferal: No, that's just talking about the stat reduction. People do not suffer every injury Misogi has ever suffered or currently has. It's talking about the mental damage and such that all minuses have suffered to get their mentality.

Healing: No, that's already included on his profile. People didn't want All Fiction's separate abilities (absolute zero, temp manip, EE, time manip, concept manip, law manip, memory manip, healing, etc.) as getting their own abilities, they just wanted them listed in AF's description, and they are. I disagreed with this but consensus was against me :v

 

[QuasiYuri]

I agree with Agnaa here.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Damage Transferal: No, that's just talking about the stat reduction. People do not suffer every injury Misogi has ever suffered or currently has. It's talking about the mental damage and such that all minuses have suffered to get their mentality.

Misogi : "You would Take all the damage caused to the holder of the minus.... "

Seems like damage transferal to me

 

[Agnaa]

Read the next page. It's immediately clarified that he's talking about the stat reduction.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Healing: No, that's already included on his profile.

No it's not included in his profile at all

 

[Agnaa]

I guess if you want to replace one of the hyperlinks with a link to the Healing page, and add the Healers category, that should work.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Read the next page. It's immediately clarified that he's talking about the stat reduction.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the damage transferal at first and then he braught up the statistic reduction thing

 

[Gohanblanco217]

I guess if you want to replace one of the hyperlinks with a link to the Healing page, and add the Healers category, that should work.

It's not like I can edit any page tho, should I ask permission from a mod first?

 

[Agnaa]

I'm pretty sure he wasn't. We never see it do damage transferal, we never hear about damage transferal again, and it's something that could be interpreted as talking about the stat reduction. We just don't give abilities in situations like that.

And yeah, a mod will need to unlock the page.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Actually Agnaa, i have to disagree with you on that Damage Transferal part. Him being weak is not him being damaged. Damage is another thing.

And if you think about it "you become exactly like me" could still include the wounds part. I'd say a possibly is fine in this case.

 

[Agnaa]

We never see wounds transferred. Ever.

I wasn't saying that him being physically weak is him being damaged, but the minus mentality generally comes from mental damage earlier in life.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean have we ever seen any case where kumagawa bookmakers anyone while already being damaged? Besides the case with medaka, since medaka already had injuries before that so can't confirm. But the thing is, it's not a fair fight if these wounds don't transfer, cus kumagawa got more damaged from being weaker than medaka.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't like adding abilities, even under a "possibly", from one dubious statement that's never repeated or shown.

If it weren't dubious but we'd still never seen it, I'd be okay with a "likely" if it was optional (if that makes any sense), or a "possibly" if it was mandatory (like this one is). If the statements were repeated I'd also consider it more solid. And if it was shown I'd obviously be okay with it.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Besides, we already have a damage transferal in the verse which was explained in a better way and all, so a single statement (which isn't in all translations btw) wouldn't be enough.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Besides, we already have a damage transferal in the verse which was explained in a better way and all, so a single statement (which isn't in all translations btw) wouldn't be enough.

So not even a possibly?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Even a possibly would need more than that I think.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If the statements were repeated I'd also consider it more solid.

There are several statements that we take as true from Medaka Box that are not repeated. What's the difference here? We only hear Kumagawa talk about erasing "time" only once in the novels, and he never uses it. We don't consider it as a possibly. The deal is:

>We only hear it once
>There are no "anti-feats"
>There is no reason for us to need to believe otherwise, if anything there is a reason to believe it does work like that (it equates you and the user and it turned Medaka vs Kumagawa into a completely equal fight despite it not being the case if 1 was more hurt than the other).
>The ability isn't anything huge, it's no bullshit groundbreaking hax that can do magic shit in vs debates. It's sth so limited it may or may not even find use....ever. So it's not like with or without it we'd have wank or downplay. It's just sth very minor so "well he says it, might as well mention it in the profiles".

You're questioning it's validity too much for what the ability even does, both in verse and outside of it. It's no big deal.

 

[Agnaa]

The statement of Kumagawa erasing time is unambiguous, in line with what All Fiction already does, and isn't something that would be triggered every time that AF is used, so there's no possibility of anti-feat there.

I try to apply the same amount of scrutiny whether it's adding Cloth Manipulation for creating clothes or putting a verse at tier 0.

What are your thoughts on YuriAkuto's comments that other translations don't mention damage transferring?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What do the other translations say? If they're different then yeah i'd be against damage transferal just because it'd be a mistranslation, no reason to add anything from a mistranslation.

As for that scrutiny, that's bad though. The bigger something is, the more you need to prove it. It's just basic knowledge. If everyone applied that same concept to everything then Medaka box's only ability would be superhuman physical characteristics.

 

[Agnaa]

Didn't saw it, mb. I'm unsure about it for 2 reasons: Translations in others languages says something more akin to "you would become like me" (so it would be better if someone could check the jap version); and if it worked as damage transferal; then why Ajimu and anyone who experienced it were unharmed when Kumagawa was?

 

[QuasiYuri]

The sentence from the volume I have is "Every person under its effects become exactly like me without exception".

 

[Agnaa]

To clarify, was your volume translated by another group into English, or is it the official French translation?

 

[QuasiYuri]

Official french one.

 

[Agnaa]

Well I remember people having a lot of trouble digging out the original raws for MB, so maybe we won't be able to verify the original...

 

[QuasiYuri]

I saw that some sites have it, but it says I can't access them.

 

[Guardspace]

I have all volumes if somebody want something to translate. Page from this thread