Possibly downgrading Two of the strongest Tier 0 characters in the wiki.

[Jibz]

If someone could write a good justification for me to copy, I can go ahead and make the edits if you want.

Do you have a discord? If so add me Jibz#0367

 

[Rikimarox2]

Barely ever use discord, tbh.

That reminds me, the Downstreamers second key speed should be downgraded to immeasurable, right? Since they lose their 1-A key.

 

[Jibz]

Barely ever use discord, tbh.

That reminds me, the Downstreamers second key speed should be downgraded to immeasurable, right? Since they lose their 1-A key.

If they were immeasurable prior then sure

 

[Rikimarox2]

Do they have anything to support immeasurable? The previous reasoning was:

"Created the Red Moon, a construct that could travel through an infinite amount of possible universes within a finite scope of time through the use of phase-space engineering. Capable of easily changing the constants of reality to be able to travel in ways that cannot be described by human language, and may transcend the concept of movement itself"

However, the infinite amount of universes is, to my knowledge, just infinite speed. And the transcendence of the concept of movement isn't enough for immeasurable speed, either.

I could be wrong on the latter, though.

 

[Jibz]

Since the current justification outside of the Woodin feat is practically the same as what the current revisions want, outside of slight tweaks this is a rather simple change. I have however gone out of my way to create a second version, one with electronic text scans, and one of scans ripped straight from the books, which is preferred?

Downstreamers Second key, The old ones:

Low Outerverse level (The Old Ones are the creators of a mathematical superspace governed by subtle mathematical rules[5] in which all logically possible universes as described by various logically consistent formal systems such as Mathematics, and Geometry [6]

or

Low Outerverse level (The Old Ones are the creators of a mathematical superspace governed by subtle mathematical rules[5] in which all logically possible universes as described by various logically consistent formal systems such as Mathematics, and Geometry [6]

 

[Jibz]

Tell me which scan useage is preferred and ill make the edit, in the meantime ill look into GOTM

 

[Rikimarox2]

I think the first one is much better. The second one's scans are pretty annoying to read, at least for me.

 

[Jibz]

I think the first one is much better. The second one's scans are pretty annoying to read, at least for me.

noted, personally i prefer the second one, due to it literally being the book rather than an electronic copy, and due to the fact that some of the electronic scans seems to be missing out parts of the original text (example: cuts out Anna's reference to Geometry and Emma's subsequent comment on highschool --> bad because it gives an example of a formal system that a universe is described by). If the text is annoying would making the image more zoomed in (idk why i didnt think to do that to begin with) like this be better or is it still jarring?

 

[Rikimarox2]

noted, personally i prefer the second one, due to it literally being the book rather than an electronic copy, and due to the fact the electronic copy seems to be missing out parts of the original text (example: cuts out Anna's reference to Geometry and Emma's subsequent comment on highschool).

Oh that's a problem then. Then the second option will be the best option here.

If the text is annoying would making the image more zoomed in (idk why i didnt think to do that to begin with) like this be better or is it still jarring?

That's so much better.

 

[Jibz]

That's so much better.

ill redo the screenshots in gyazo zoomed in tommorow as its midnight for me atm, also for the electronic scans, i actually do have ebook copies of the book which included the missing text, so now its just a matter of preference again (except now i have to redo all the electronic scans if that gets picked AHHHHH)

GOTM is much the same as the Downstreamers in the sense revising her page will be easy, as it just needs a few minor edits and cutting off the Woodin feat mention.

 

[Jibz]

bump, id prefer knowing what scans would give the best user experience before going for scans

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Would both Downstreamers and GoTM still had Transduality type 3?

 

[Confluctor]

Since the current justification outside of the Woodin feat is practically the same as what the current revisions want, outside of slight tweaks this is a rather simple change. I have however gone out of my way to create a second version, one with electronic text scans, and one of scans ripped straight from the books, which is preferred?

Downstreamers Second key, The old ones:

Low Outerverse level (The Old Ones are the creators of a mathematical superspace governed by subtle mathematical rules[5] in which all logically possible universes as described by various logically consistent formal systems such as Mathematics, and Geometry [6]

or

Low Outerverse level (The Old Ones are the creators of a mathematical superspace governed by subtle mathematical rules[5] in which all logically possible universes as described by various logically consistent formal systems such as Mathematics, and Geometry [6]

First one. Clearer to read

 

[Qawsedf234]

beyond type 4's" what would that even consist of?

Nothing can be beyond Type 4, since it's just a descriptor of a theoretical basis for the multiverse. If everything is mathematics there can be nothing more precises than mathematics.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I could be wrong on the latter, though.

It would still only be infinite.

 

[Jibz]

It would still only be infinite.

ill probably be able to find immeas feats, the only issue is wether or not its via going ftl or not. I’ll have to look more indepth for that

 

[Jibz]

First one. Clearer to read

Since i want this done today, and Con is someone’s opinion i trust, aswell as having Riki support for option 1, option 1 will be what we’ll use. I’ll have to change the scans though just incase its feat has more ripped text elsewhere.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also what's the Low 1-A justification? Being Euclidean isn't automatically a Low 1-A or High 1-B multiverse structure.

 

[Jibz]

Also what's the Low 1-A justification? Being Euclidean isn't automatically a Low 1-A or High 1-B multiverse structure.

An infinite ensemble with all logically possible (alsoinfinite) universes existing,with each universe based on logically consistent formal systems (Mathematics, and Geometry), with mathematics being a constant, essential logic underlying the verse. e.g. Modal realism, it should be higher, but with how the tiering system is atm this is the highest it can go.

 

[Qawsedf234]

An infinite ensemble with all logically possible (alsoinfinite) universes existing,with each universe based on logically consistent formal systems (Mathematics, and Geometry)

So you're saying that they made one universe that includes something like Hilbert Space so they're Low 1-A?

 

[Jibz]

So you're saying that they made one universe that includes something like Hilbert Space so they're Low 1-A?

im saying i had 0 clue where this specifically scaled but Ultima stated itd be Low 1-A and Aeyu corroborated that even thinking it was arguably higher. Me, im just a dude who likes hard fiction, and wanted to fix the ratings.

 

[Jibz]

Personally i never did really bother with the scaling aspect here (left it to Ultima kek) because it should really scale higher via MUH (but the wiki doesnt consider it to scale higher for some reason)

 

[NIK_FARIS]

I am not sure what Ultima really think but We normally rated those that transcend concept of dimension, and show that higher dimension have uncountable infinite superiority as 1-A and having beyond dimensional existence.

Physical space are tied to dimension.

With type 4 multiverse where mathematic equal to physical space and consider all possibilities to be true, as such is why we take the highest interpretation while still bound by concept of dimension (in other word highest before 1-A) a.k.a low 1-A.

Of course, I know that it possible to be tier 0 while still bound by concept of dimension(usually to those verse which use type 4 multiverse) which is why low 1-A technically the low end for type 4 multiverse.

Of course all this is just my opinion. You can just take it as a grain of salt.

 

[Qawsedf234]

With type 4 multiverse where mathematic equal to physical space and consider all possibilities to be true,

Type 4 is just that the universe's base form is mathematical equation. Similar to the idea that everything in the universe can be computable.

It's not automatically Tier 1, you would need to prove how high the franchise goes in terms of structure to get that rating. You can have a Type 4 Multiverse and have it be limited to Low 2-C.
Or 2-A.

 

[Jibz]

It's not automatically Tier 1, you would need to prove how high the franchise goes in terms of structure to get that rating. You can have a Type 4 Multiverse and have it be limited to Low 2-C.
Or 2-A.

we’ll see

 

[Antvasima]

Since the current justification outside of the Woodin feat is practically the same as what the current revisions want, outside of slight tweaks this is a rather simple change. I have however gone out of my way to create a second version, one with electronic text scans, and one of scans ripped straight from the books, which is preferred?

Downstreamers Second key, The old ones:

Low Outerverse level (The Old Ones are the creators of a mathematical superspace governed by subtle mathematical rules[5] in which all logically possible universes as described by various logically consistent formal systems such as Mathematics, and Geometry [6]

or

Low Outerverse level (The Old Ones are the creators of a mathematical superspace governed by subtle mathematical rules[5] in which all logically possible universes as described by various logically consistent formal systems such as Mathematics, and Geometry [6]

What do you think about this, @Ultima_Reality ?

Also, can somebody ask Aeyu about this? (Why has she still not returned here anyway?)

 

[Jibz]

What do you think about this, @Ultima_Reality ?

Also, can somebody ask Aeyu about this? (Why has she still not returned here anyway?)

sure ill go ask rn

 

[Ultima_Reality]

What do you think about this, @Ultima_Reality ?

Fine to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply. Should the reasoning for the specific tier be further explained/justified, and if so, how?

 

[Jibz]

Thank you for the reply. Should the reasoning for the specific tier be further explained/justified, and if so, how?

if there was something to be added, or necessary to be explained in more depth i wouldnt know of it

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the reply. Should the reasoning for the specific tier be further explained/justified, and if so, how?

if there was something to be added, i wouldnt know of it

I was asking @Ultima_Reality .

 

[Jibz]

I was asking @Ultima_Reality .

And as the person who read the books, knows the scaling indepth and the context more then anyone here, i personally do not think there is anything needed to expand upon that would be relevant to the scaling. Its short, simple and to the point.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I just wondered if it explains the reason for this specific tier sufficiently well.

 

[Swerzye29038]

Type 4 multiverses aren't inherently High 1-B or Low 1-A btw

 

[Jibz]

Type 4 multiverses aren't inherently High 1-B or Low 1-A btw

i don't think a single person said that

 

[Swerzye29038]

i don't think a single person said that

Than why was that originally being used as justification for High 1-B and Low 1-A?

 

[Jibz]

Than why was that originally being used as justification for High 1-B and Low 1-A?

if it was then thats news to me..

 

[Jibz]

Low Outerverse level (The Old Ones are the creators of a mathematical superspace governed by subtle mathematical rules[5] in which all logically possible universes as described by various logically consistent formal systems such as Mathematics, and Geometry [6])

and

Outerverse level+ ( The God of the Manifold is a force which encompasses and comprehends an ultimate ensemble of universes[1], which is hinted implied to be comprised of an endless recursion of greater manifolds[2] , with there being "no end to the hierarchies of life and mind". The lowest manifold, One Manifold, being that of the Old Ones, already consists of all logically possible universes[3] and internally consistent formal systems[4] ,with mathematics as the fundamental, underlying basis[6] which defines the whole structure cosmology)


Slight issues is that i have 0 clue where we got the notion that the Downstreamers cosmology was the lowest manifold? So unless someone can find that, the part should be removed. Other stuff edited out is just for better reading/understanding, other edits was changing a scan which missed part of the text for some reason, and cutting off all mentions to Woodin cardinals.

 

[Jibz]

Is there any more additions to be added or is this fine, if there is more info necessary then i wouldn't know.

 

[Shaqzy]

I am not sure what Ultima really think but We normally rated those that transcend concept of dimension, and show that higher dimension have uncountable infinite superiority as 1-A and having beyond dimensional existence.

Physical space are tied to dimension.

With type 4 multiverse where mathematic equal to physical space and consider all possibilities to be true, as such is why we take the highest interpretation while still bound by concept of dimension (in other word highest before 1-A) a.k.a low 1-A.

Of course, I know that it possible to be tier 0 while still bound by concept of dimension(usually to those verse which use type 4 multiverse) which is why low 1-A technically the low end for type 4 multiverse.

Of course all this is just my opinion. You can just take it as a grain of salt.

With the new tiering system changes, 1A is bound by dimensionality is it not? Also the are also abstract parts of a type 4...