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"POSSIBLY" 5-A Scarlet Witch (MCU)

Matthew Schroeder said:
Power, Reality and Space Stone are all used simultaneously by Thanos at various points. At no point does the movie go "Power Stone >>>" All other stones.
The best stone feats are done by the Reality, Space and Power stones. All three have direct Planetary level power.

If she could not affect the force-field he wouldn't have been pushed back. And he was using the Space Stone to make it.
Click to expand...
This is not true at all.

  • The Reality Stone has only shown 7-B power output via Malekith vs Dark World Thor. It has no "Power Feats" above this. Everything it has done or would have done is through it's control over reality, nothing more.
  • And yes, from an energy output standpoint, the power stone has been portrayed > all the other stones since GoTG. No stone has come remotely close.
  • Space stones best feat is creating a black hole. That's again tgrough its control of space.
  • None of them have direct planetary power save for Power stone. Some have Planet lvl range and greater, but not from a power standpoint, you are using false equivalency here or at the very least an associative fallacy. The stones actual "FEATS" says otherwise.
  • Matthew, that is nit true. Thanos struggling doesn't equate to her scaling to the Gauntlet. It's absolutely possible for her to push thanos and make him stuggle without having affected the guantlet.
 
Except when it was going to level 9 planets. Malekith using the stone to amp himself doesn't = the full power of the stone, he wasn't even using the reality bending abilities of the stone.
 
ByAsura said:
Except when it was going to level 9 planets. Malekith using the stone to amp himself doesn't = the full power of the stone, he wasn't even using the reality bending abilities of the stone.
Click to expand...
Let me break this down for you:

  • Malekith was going to turn all matter in the 9 realms (The Universe Basically) into Dark Matter. That's not equivalent to the Power Stones "Energy Output". In fact, that has nothing to do with "Energy". Malekith was going to achieve this via Reality Warping.
  • You can't say Malekith using the Aether to amp himself and "Blast" Thor, wasn't it's full capability from a "Power" standpoint. It's unquantifiable. We have to go by the FEATS. The reality stone was only shown on 2 occasions. Dark World and Infinity War. In IW, it has no "Power" feats. Pure Reality Warping throughout the entire movie. In DW, Malekith intended to Use it to Convert Matter to Dark Matter (Impossible from a power standpoint), and he only Managed to Stalemate 7-B Thor from a "Power" standpoint.
 
"Muh Reality Warping" argument now, really?

Everything can be quantified into energy, specially if it involves converting the matter of nine planets into dark matter.

Wanda's power is comparable to the Mind Stone. Wanda pushes back Space Stone Thanos.

Wanda is 5-A, just accept it and it'll hurt less.
 
@TFO

Ok, so you're talking about the power output of the stones, not the ability output. Well, that's kind of an opinion based thing, you could say that destroying the planets is the actual output.

Really, because Malekith used the stone to increase his powers, that should be the stone's limit? That's like arguing that the Power Stone is multi city block level, because it amped Ronan's physical abilities that high, and can destroy a planet with its ability to destroy organic matter.

It's also like saying the tesseract's output is that high because the Nazi's weapons. Which isn't the case because that was just the energy they collected.

If Vision was comparable to the mind stone because he has it, why would he be inferior to the Scarlet Witch, even before infinity war?

I'm not trying to argue that they should have the same output, but City Level stones are bs.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
"Muh Reality Warping" argument now, really?
Everything can be quantified into energy, specially if it involves converting the matter of nine planets into dark matter.

Wanda's power is comparable to the Mind Stone. Wanda pushes back Space Stone Thanos.

Wanda is 5-A, just accept it and it'll hurt less.
Click to expand...
That's no argument and it's false, now you're just arguing against canon. And Again, a real world example that is more than true would be you trying to blast me with High-Pressure Waterhose and me blocking with a Riot Shield. If I struggle to push against the water, the Riot Shield isn't a factor in it, period. It's all on my strength.

Like I said, Matthew, this isn't a situation like with Stormbreaker. There is no "Energy Beam vs Energy Beam Struggle".

Wanda Blast Thanos > Thanos Blocks with Space Stone Energy Shield > Thanos stuggles to push past Wanda's blast.

The shield is not a factor.
 
@ByAsura

  • Only the Power Stone has feats calces at 5-A
  • All other stones have feats consistently putting them at 7-B or Below from a "Power output" standpoint. At least nothing comparable to the power stone.
All the other stones are basically being scaled to the power stone based on an associative fallacy. There are no showings outside of the stones "Controlling their respective aspects" that justify such things as saying the Mind Stone is 5-A. If you watch the movies, that makes no ******* sense.
 
Not what i was arguing.

It seems like you didn't even listen to my arguments on why that's wrong.

Again, i wasn't trying to argue that, i was just saying the stones aren't 7-B for those reasons, they might be 7-B for other reasons though.
 
You see, i'm getting too irritated by some of the logic here. I stated my piece. I'll let everyone else decide now. Come back in two days.
 
@ByAsura

My last post was before I refreshed.

@Matthew

Wrong. My argument is:

  • Mind Stone Doesn't scale to Power Stone by virtue of feats.
  • No infinity stone scales to 5-A Power Stone by virtue of feats.
  • The Harnessed power of the stones by varius entities have amounted to being 7-B or Below with Space Stone being at least 6-C for Wanda's feat.
  • Wanda making Thanos struggle doesn't scale her to 5-A.
 
Then perhaps a calc on the energy required to warp the 9 realms into dark matter is required, as is creating a black hole. The power stone has power in its name for a reason as does the others with their respective names. They don't necessarily scale to each other as they each have their own perks.
 
Wanda's power tier must be changed ! This is absurd ! Mind gem destruction didn't even caused destructive shockwave on 100 m radical.
 
Wait. Weren't the Infinity Stones created by the Big Bang? wouldn't that give them Galaxy level durability at bare minimum?
 
Actually, that scene says "the universe exploded and the energies were forged into concentrated ingots"

So it was the Big Bang that forged them. And since we scaled Molnjir off of the dying star it was forged in, shouldn't we do the same for the stones?

"The stones would not be a sliver of a sliver of the Big Bang."

Possibly. Hence why I lowballed it to Galaxy Level. Which is less than a sliver of a sliver of the Big Bang.
 
No, he says the remnants of these systems.

The Big Bang caused it to happen, but they aren't the energies from the Big Bang.

Good point there.
 
So, can we agree on a rating, whether to keep "Possibly 5-A" or do away with it. I made my piece and others have made theirs.

I believe enough of a discussion has been had for people to mke a decision.
 
The remnatnts

remnant

╦êr╔ømnənt/

nou

  1. 1.
a part or quantity that is left after the greater part has been used, removed, or destroyed.

"the bogs are an endangered remnant of a primeval landscape"
 
Lunacorva said:
https://youtu.be/sw6oVPrIOVc?t=11s
"Then the universe exploded into existence and these energies were forged into concentrated ingots."

It directly says they were forged by the Big Bang.
Click to expand...
It does not say the the energies, it says the remnants of these systems. And since it says systems, instead of system, it obviously refers to the singularities.
 
Still don't think this would warrant Wanda as 5-A, considering Dr.Strange fought Thanos when he was using 4 stones and this would put her in the same category with little substance.
 
ByAsura said:
Lunacorva said:
https://youtu.be/sw6oVPrIOVc?t=11s"Then the universe exploded into existence and these energies were forged into concentrated ingots."
It directly says they were forged by the Big Bang.
Click to expand...
It does not say the the energies, it says the remnants of these systems. And since it says systems, instead of system, it obviously refers to the singularities.
Click to expand...
You miss the point. It STILL says those remnants were forged into the infinity stones BY THE BIG BANG
 
I'm not missing the point, you're missing the point. I didn't say they weren't forged by the Big Bang, i said they don't contain the energies of the big bang, that's all.
 
ByAsura said:
I'm not missing the point, you're missing the point. I didn't say they weren't forged by the Big Bang, i said they don't contain the energies of the big bang, that's all.
Click to expand...
I never said they contain the energies of the Big Bang. But if the durability of Thor's Hammer can be scaled off the fact that it was forged in the heart of a dying star, should the same not apply to scaling the durability of the Infinity Stones based on the circumstances in which they were formed?
 
You did say that, many times.

It's kind of unquantifiable, firstly, they only took part of it, and secondly, they're the remnants of singluarities.
 
No. I didn't. I said from the start that my point was that they were FORGED by the Big Bang. THAT is what I have said I am scaling off of. Not what their original forms were.
 
"Actually, that scene says "the universe exploded and the energies were forged into concentrated ingots"."

""Then the universe exploded into existence and these energies were forged into concentrated ingots."."

It seems like you did.
 
You were the one who added the emphasis on energies. Not me. You are blatantly ignoring my point and instead trying to turn it into something it is not.
 
I added the emphasis to highlight the specific sections where you were talking about them to put it in full context, not to turn it into something it's not. You also seem to ignore your own posts, so that's another reason.
 
I think what Lunacorva is saying is that the stones tanked the Big Bang, not that they ARE the Big Bang.

Though I thought only the singularities tanked the explosion, not the stone? They turned into stones AFTER the Big Bang IIRC.

So the thing is, did the stone tank the Big Bang?
 
I know and agree (sort of), but he did say in the points i displayed.

Anyway, it's my fault, i misunderstood the first point, and it became this discussion.
 
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