"POSSIBLY" 5-A Scarlet Witch (MCU)

[TheFinalOrder]

Possibly 5-A Scarlet Witch should be removed. She's nowhere near 5-A.

The reasoning behind the Rating is that She's stated to be comparable to the Mind Stone in power which implies the Mind Stone is 5-A.

This is false. The 5-A calc is for the "Power Stone" feats. The other Infinity Stones do not scale to the Power Stone in it's output of power, energy, etc. This is shown to be the case with every stone:

• Nazi's harnessing the Space Stones Power

• Vision harnessing the Mind Stones Power

• Maliketh Harnessing the Reality Stones Power

Etc. In each of these cases, each Gem has shown vastly different levels of power output. Nothing in the MCU says, implies, whatever, that every other stone in the MCU scale to the 5-A power stone.

Thor in the Dark World Stattered the Aether. He was tier 7 then. The same Blast Wanda used to Destroy the Stone, Thanos struggled against. Wanda is rated tier 6 for that, thus if Wanda is comparable to the Stone, then the Stones Power Output shiuld be Tier 6.

Which Means Vision with the Mind Stone should have Tier 6 power output or AP. Which Means Untron's Vibranium Body should be Tier 6 in Durability.

Anyways, Nothing Suggests 5-A stones other than Power Stone. That's not to say the Power Stone is the Strongest overall stone, but the other stones would be superior due to their respected aspects that they control.

 

[Eficiente]

>The reasoning behind the Rating is that She's stated to be comparable to the Mind Stone in power

The 5-A rank comes from Wanda showing to be able to slow Thanos down. Matt elaborates this better in his thread about the movie.

 

[Schnee_One]

If that was the reasoning I would see your point

It's not

 

[Gemmysaur]

Good analysis. I agree.

That said, Thor didn't really shatter the Aether since it was already in its debris-filled gassy form. He only blew them apart in an explosion, that just pulled itself back together afterwards.

 

[Eficiente]

Also since Civil War she was stated in interviews to show her true potential in this movie.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

If that was the reasoning I would see your point
It's not

Then what was the reasoning? I must have missed it, but it says this on her profile:

"Possibly Large Planet level with Psionics (Capable of destroying the Mind Stone, as her powers are of a comparable level to the Stone's own)"

And Matt is the one who edited her Profile, no?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

>The reasoning behind the Rating is that She's stated to be comparable to the Mind Stone in power
The 5-A rank comes from Wanda showing to be able to slow Thanos down. Matt elaborates this better in his thread about the movie.

Again, the 5-A rating in general comes from the Power Stone. Thanos blocked her Blast with the Gauntlet, but PHYSICALLY Struggled. That doesn't scale her to 5-A. Thanos isn't 5-A Phyically.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Good analysis. I agree.
That said, Thor didn't really shatter the Aether since it was already in its debris-filled gassy form. He only blew them apart in an explosion, that just pulled itself back together afterwards.

Eh...idk, while it was in a gas state or whatever, the scene it plays it quite similar to The Mind Stone Exploding. The Reality Stone seemed to try and Resist and when it reformed, it did so as like Shards of broken glass which implies it was shattered completely.


Thor 2 Malekith taking Aether

 

[Eficiente]

I remember Thanos using the gems when trying to approach Wanda.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I remember Thanos using the gems when trying to approach Wanda.

He created a shield, yes. And wanda's Energy had no effect on said shield. Thanos just struggled to push through it while blocking with his shield.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I do not understand this "resistance" against Wanda, she in the comics is 2-C and could stomp almost any avenger, why in the movies this would be different?

Anyway, Thanos already possessed 5 Infinity Stones when she faced him, and if I remember correctly, he used one or more to counter Wanda's attacks, and she was capable of destroying the Mind Stone because her powers were on a same level, this could indicate that she is 5-A, but as it is not clear, that's why she have "Possibly" in her key

I don't see any problem in maintaning "Possibly 5-A"

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

false equivalency, the amount of things whitin comics that we could use to upgrade movie characters is ridicolous. I do not disagree with the rest of the comment

 

[TheFinalOrder]

You guys have to get something through your minds. Unlike with Stormbreaker, which powered through a BLAST from the Complete Infinity Gauntlet, Thanos did not BLAST Wanda. There was no ENERGY BEAM STRUGGLE or whatever.

• Wanda attempted to BLAST Thanos

• Thanos BLOCKED with a ENERGY SHIELD from the Gauntlet.

• Wanda's BLAST had no effect on Thanos' ENERGY SHIELD.

Simply based on that, She doesn't scale to 5-A. THanos simply struggled physically to push past her attack. He didn't attempt to over power her with the Gauntlet and it's already established that the Stones don't scale to the Power Stone in power output.

So, @Ricsi and @Dante, that "reasoning" you believe in or are using is baseless for one and debunked. I really can't make the explanation any more simpler than this. It's either you agree or disagree and to disagree with no real counter or proof (Because there is none aside from head canon) is simply denial.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I do not "believe" in anything, i simply don't disagree, I'll just wait it oput, I do see your point though

 

[Eficiente]

I don't remember the blast having "no effect" on the shield and I'm pretty sure Thanos is physically 5-A.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

wouldent pushing somone fall under lifting strenght?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I mean, in the comics she's one of the strongest of the avengers, so she being one of the strongest in the movies should not be treated as an exaggeration, or something like that. I'm not saying that we should upgrade her to 2-C because of comics, lol

And I think 5-A only comes from destroying the Mind Stone, pushing Thanos back it's meh and only 6-C in her profile

 

[Gemmysaur]

Let's not bring the comics in this, because in the comics, Strange and Thor are hilariously above Captain Marvel, but Lord Feige mentioned that MCU CapMa is the most powerful.

Time stone = / = Power stone. It says so in their name.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Mind Stone*

And yeah, I only said that because my first post can be ambigous, only explaining hehe

 

[Zant7]

I mean, in the comics she's one of the strongest of the avengers, so she being one of the strongest in the movies should not be treated as an exaggeration, or something like that. I'm not saying that we should upgrade her to 2-C because of comics, lol
And I think 5-A only comes from destroying the Mind Stone, pushing Thanos back it's meh and only 6-C in her profile

Buddy, tell me if Mind Stone was ssssssssssoo durable why the Shockwave coming from it's destruction didn't make large planet or solar system range/striking destruction. This destruction was rather on district ( 100 m radical ) range and destructive power survived peak humans. They have no rights to say Wanda is Large planet level.

Guys, i love Wanda very much and those guys want to emphasize how badass she is but this is ultra exaggaration. She should have at least 6-C and likely 6-B

 

[Zant7]

>The reasoning behind the Rating is that She's stated to be comparable to the Mind Stone in power
The 5-A rank comes from Wanda showing to be able to slow Thanos down. Matt elaborates this better in his thread about the movie.

In my opinion pushing thanos away doesn't make her 5-A but only High 6-C as his lvl is stated. The best feat shown by mind gem is erasing ultron from worldwide web so at least mind gem should be 6-B or 6-A

 

[TheFinalOrder]

So, what can we do about this 5-A rating?

 

[AKM sama]

Well, Thanos was using the power stone for a shield but it's not like Wanda destroyed the shield.

 

[Gemmysaur]

The 5-A shield was unblemished, but Thanos was physically being pushed. So unless that shield protects against being pushed, she only scales to Thanos physically.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps you should ask Matthew and some other staff members from the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here.

In any case, I personally think that this seems to make sense, but it depends on what other staff members say.

 

[ByAsura]

The Nazis just used some energy, it's not like they used the full output, they imply this in a few scenes:

"The energy we have just collected could power my designs. All my designs".

It's also not like they used the Space Bending powers it gives.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

I agree Thanos was only pushed physically her attack didn't do any damage to the shield and destroying the mind stone is not 5A since the stones aren't shown to be as strong as each other so she should only scale to High 6C

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The 5-A shield was unblemished, but Thanos was physically being pushed. So unless that shield protects against being pushed, she only scales to Thanos physically.

But doesent that only scale to lifring strenght unless he gets dammaged to?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I thought Thanos with an Incomplete Gauntlet is stronger than before?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I thought Thanos with an Incomplete Gauntlet is stronger than before?

Wanda would scale only to Thanos Physical Capabilities still. And he isn't 5-A physically regardless. I'll message Matthew.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I disagree entirely. All the other examples brought never once are the Stones destroyed, just their containers. False equivalency. And Thanos was using two stones to block from Wanda's power.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

5-A Wanda is a no go in my opinion

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Well I agree with Matthew Schroeder.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm noticing a lot of bias against the feats in Infinity War, based around either headcanon explanations, or just straight up disbelief.

Thor, Iron Man, Strange and Wanda all showed feats that scale to the Infinity Stones in some form or another. It's just an aspect of the movie's plot that you have to accept.

Thor straight up pushes back and slices through Six Stone Thanos' blast. Tony holds back a Power Stone blast. Doctor Strange counter a Two Stone Energy Blast and forces Thanos to use two Stones to defeat him. Wanda outright destroys a stone due to having a similar level of power, and pushes back Two Stone Thanos.

It's absurd, but it happened far too often to be an outlier.

 

[ByAsura]

I agree with that stuff, but i'm taking a neutral stance on the Wanda thing.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

@Matthew Schroeder Wait do you mean Tony is 5-A?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I disagree entirely. All the other examples brought never once are the Stones destroyed, just their containers. False equivalency. And Thanos was using two stones to block from Wanda's power.

Not going to get into the smaller stuff. Basicallyvthe main points are, the Mind Stone =/= Power Stone and Wanda didn't affect energy shield Thanos creates.

Thanos struggles yes, but only physically. This isn't a Stormbreaker situation. And it's proven that the Stones are not Comparable to each other in power output/durability.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"I've been giving a great deal of thought to this entity in my head, about its nature, but also its composition. I think if it were exposed to a sufficiently powerful energy source, something very similar to its own perhaps... its molecular integrity could fail" - Vision

It is outright stated to be about power.

Thanos was also shielding himself with the stones. Watch it again. Low quality video, but you can clearly see a forcefield around his hands.

@Spin

Only in durability with that special shield he made that blocked the Power Stone blast.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Matthew

I never said it's not about power, what i'm saying is, Mind Stone doesn't equal the Power Stone.

PowerStone is calced at 5-A. The Mind Stone doesn't have a comparable output of power, no stone does. Thus the examples. And yes, Thanos blocked with the guantlet, but you can't scale her from it unless she actually affected the force field, which she did not (Not a Stormbreaker situation).

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Power, Reality and Space Stone are all used simultaneously by Thanos at various points. At no point does the movie go "Power Stone >>>" All other stones.

The best stone feats are done by the Reality, Space and Power stones. All three have direct Planetary level power.

If she could not affect the force-field he wouldn't have been pushed back. And he was using the Space Stone to make it.