Possible Persona 5 Begining of game upgrades

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

Oh my god, people.
NO

Mada is not 3-A / Low 2-C. That description relates to the mythological character Mada, not the Persona which looks like Mada.

Stop bringing it up.

Cosmic Flair isn't a feat, it's literally a background. At least the other attacks we're using for scaling have animations.

Except, I'm not reffering to the description, the description is purely auxilary evidence.

I'm refering to the thing he tells you directly when you fuse him, as in his dialogue.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah, he says but it isn't true. That's not Mada the SMT demon you fight as a boss in Nocturne. That's a Persona that looks like Mada.

Do you understand?

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

Yeah, he says but it isn't true. That's not Mada the SMT demon you fight as a boss in Nocturne. That's a Persona that looks like Mada.
Do you understand?

Why would he be lying exactly?

And I am quite aware that it isn't Mada as in the demon, I know it's a Persona. Personas are capable of speaking, this one says it can do a thing.

Please stop strawmanning my argument.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Because he's not literally Mada but a Persona assuming Mada's look and personality?

Play Persona 2, demons =/= Personas. Personas just look like demons.

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

Because he's not literally Mada but a Persona assuming Mada's look and personality?
Play Persona 2, demons =/= Personas. Personas just look like demons.

Did I at any point state he was a demon?

I stated that the Persona Mada, in Persona 5, when fused, states he can devour the universe.

Stop it with the strawmaning and actually adress the argument. Or don't and simple move onto something else in my post, since this is clearly going nowhere.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Matthew.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Could we Drop the Mada Argument temporarily and say what we think of upgrading the Phantom thieves to MCB during the begining of the game? And calculating Futabas palace size? Or say what you think while arguing it? I mean I hate to sound pushy so I'm sorry if I do

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well calculating Futaba's Palace is essential to knowing how strong the Phantom Thieves at that point. Remember that the Shadows of said person maintain said dimension with their existence. And we see Futaba's Shadow become her Persona. Also I guess The Guardian of the Tomb could also be the one who maintained said Palace. My main point is Futaba's Palace is like the second largest Palace, surpassed by Okumura and maybe matched by Shido.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Um I doubt the guardian of the tomb Kept the palace in check, It's the treasure and Shadow Sure futabas Shadow became a persona But shadows and personas are Well more or less the same thing So it's possible that's why her palace didn't disappere.

Also as Thomas pointed out Futabas palace could Have a FTL feat (Makes since Considering the Palace following has the MFTL+ feat.)

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

Um I doubt the guardian of the tomb Kept the palace in check,
It's the treasure and Shadow Sure futabas Shadow became a persona But shadows and personas are Well more or less the same thing So it's possible that's why her palace didn't disappere.

Also as Thomas pointed out Futabas palace could Have a FTL feat (Makes since Considering the Palace following has the MFTL+ feat.)

Seriously doubt it's ftl, likely far less than that.

Additionally, yes, the guardian of the tomb is purely a cognition, much like the palace itself. Futaba's palace collapsed due to a combination of her shadow becoming a persona and leaving the Palace (since the shadow itself was also the Palace's treasure).

 

[Jesterofgames]

@Thomas the hype engien I'm talking about the light beam feat you were talking about earlier in the thread

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

@Thomas the hype engien
I'm talking about the light beam feat you were talking about earlier in the thread

The characters are moving slower than it, not faster, hence, not ftl.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Ok then.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Well calculating Futaba's Palace is essential to knowing how strong the Phantom Thieves at that point. Remember that the Shadows of said person maintain said dimension with their existence. And we see Futaba's Shadow become her Persona. Also I guess The Guardian of the Tomb could also be the one who maintained said Palace. My main point is Futaba's Palace is like the second largest Palace, surpassed by Okumura and maybe matched by Shido.

A Low 6-B feat, you mean?

How would we scale it even to calc its size is my only concern.

I do agree that is probably the size.

Also, third. If you consider memento size and a dungeon in the game.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Also Would It increase the size of mementos Or give us a general idea how big it is If Memetos was connected to the Collective unconcious Or no? Also Ether here or on my message wall if you don't wanna clutter the thread further could someone explain why morning star is considered MFTL+

 

[Jesterofgames]

Um this thread is a mess (My fault) I can't even tell if CB-MCB phantom theives were agreed upon or not Should this thread just be closed and another be made? Or no?

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

Oh, yeah, never did make a full post with all the Persona character statements upon fusion, might as well, gonna post anything that seems noteworthy:

Flauros states he can see the past and future:

http://i.imgur.com/mR7uTdw.png

Ardha states the MC has obtained the might of the entire universe:

http://i.imgur.com/3kVbeKh.png

Yorlongr states to have given a strenght capable of conjoining the heavens and the earth to the mask:

http://i.imgur.com/RTifPIo.png

Vishnu states alludes to maintain the universe:

http://i.imgur.com/x24XVX8.png

Pale rider states the mask is now imbued with the power to cast deadly curses from the underworld:

http://i.imgur.com/vVb2va5.png

Mada states that "This infinite well of power, which can swallow the universe, shall become your mask"

http://i.imgur.com/UeOaExd.png

And for stuff I can't find footage of, but checked in the actual game:

Baal: "I shall grant you a mask that bring forth rain and fertility to the Earth" Koumokuten: ".(..)Grant you a mask that monitors the world"

Asura: "The light of mine that destroyeth all shall become part of thine mask and bestow power upon thee"

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

All of these don't scale because the Personas aren't the demons they represent.

I guess we should have 2-A Persona since you can summon Lucifer as one.

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

All of these don't scale because the Personas aren't the demons they represent.
I guess we should have 2-A Persona since you can summon Lucifer as one.

Bruh, read better, some of these are literally:

"Your mask can now do this"

Or

"I can do this"

Or even

"I grant thee the power to do a thing"

At what point did anyone even pretend to state that any SMT demons where involved with this?

Can Personas not say things now?

Stop strawmanning shit. ffs.

Allow me to clarify:

Argument you think is being said:

"Joker can summon Mada so he scales to SMT Mada or something"

Argument being said:

"This Persona states that by becoming Joker's mask it will wil grant Joker a specific ability"

EDIT:

"Don't scale"

Wait, are you implying these are feats for the SMT versions of these characters?

Because they aren't, this would not scale to any of the SMT demons. This is the Personas saying this, as shown by all the links being from Persona 5, did you literally not click any of them?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Persona Mada is just a manifestation of Joker's subconscious that assumes the form of the Demon Mada, so of course it will talk as if it is the demon.

But it isn't Mada, it's just a Persona.

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

The Persona Mada is just a manifestation of Joker's subconscious that assumes the form of the Demon Mada, so of course it will talk as if it is the demon.
But it isn't Mada, it's just a Persona.

"Of course it will talk as if it's a demon"

Literallly all of them know they are Personas, several of these links have them state they will become masks and are the result of Joker's will or whatever.

Jack frost states this upfront, it's the entire point of his fusion statement:

https://youtu.be/sQpQifT-Qn0?t=129

Like, they know, they state this upfront.

Recruit them literally requires them to go from thinking their a Shadow native to the Palace you find them in to originating in the sea of human souls. Neither of these is "An SMT demon"

Heck, even if they're stupid and don't know what they are, does this suddenly mean what they literally state as " Your mask can now do..."

"You now have the power of..."

"Your mask is imbued with the power to..."

Etc...

Is not valid?

EDIT:

Heck, you said all of them are invalid, so politely tell me how

"The light of mine that destroyeth all shall become part of thine mask and bestow power upon thee"

Is debunked in any way by Smt demons existing.

Or

"I shall grant you a mask that Monitors the world"

Or any of the various other ones?

Your argument sounds like a massive non-sequitur.

Again, you said all of them,

"I shall become a fiery mask of thine, with my powers to see the past and future"

In what context does it make sense to say this if one can't actually do that.

Almost all of these are reffering to abilities that Joker gains by them becoming his mask, them actually meaning, "You see, my mythological counterpart can do that, neither you nor me can actually do that, even though I just said the exact opposite, even hyping up the ability you just gained." seems like kind of a stretch for a least one of these.

If you'd just said that Upgrading the character's stats based solely on statements is insufficient evidence, then that's reasonable. But throwing out all statements of this nature because of the arguments being presented here, seems like it's being rather hasty.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You still cannot understand that these are feats for SMT demons which do not scale to the Personas.

 

[Thomas_The_hype_Engine]

You still cannot understand that these are feats for SMT demons which do not scale to the Personas.

>These are feats for SMT demons

Ok, what?

Are you seriously about to tell me that a persona, telling a Persona user, that by becoming their mask they will grant them specific powers and abilities, somehow scales to a completely unrelated Smt demon they are presumably based off of (as in the same model is used and noting else indicates this, in universe, they're based on the mythological beleifs of people in general, not necessarily any creature that already exists)?

How exactly?

Again, all statements posted are by Personas in Persona 5. (I've already stated this, did you not read)

Are you some kind of broken record and or bot?

Like, would feats by a Persona in the anime and or games or something, scale to the same demon in SMT, 'cus that seems like what you're arguing for. And even if that wouldn't upgrade anything it's still completely nonsensical.

If say Arsene, or the first pixie you got, or something said they had enough power to destroy something, Would you seriously tell me, "No actually, that's a feat for the SMT demon and scales to them, they can't do that doe"

Could you at least provide some evidence for your claims?